UKRAINE/RUSSIA WAR - looks like it’s started

a reply to: BZiker

Is there any light you can shed on the story behind the US Department of Defense-financed Biolabs located throughout Ukraine?

After reading the comments on the last page, I realized how naive your ideas about the problem are. Do you guys seriously think that if you kill Putin, something will change?

The Russian people have a desire to live in safety. Surrounded by neutral neighbors. Look at the relations between Russia and Finland since the end of the Second World War. This country is actually neutral. It has excellent economic relations with Russia, and Russia has no complaints about Finland.
And even better, NATO troops should not be based further than Germany. And it would be nice if the United States stopped destroying strategic treaties on the limitation of nuclear weapons and strategic systems. It would be absolutely great if NATO stopped bombing independent states without the sanction of the UN Security Council, and in general if NATO remembered that you are a defensive alliance, and there are no members in Africa or Asia - everyone around would be happy. Of course, I am not even stuttering about the fact that sanctions should be imposed only in accordance with current international law - by decision of the UN Security Council or the UN General Assembly.

And so long as the Russian people have a need to feel safe in their country, there will be leaders responding to this demand.
For some reason you are trying to explain what is happening to yourself from the position of an ostrich hiding its head in the cozy sand. I understand this simple and convenient solution - to remove Putin and solve everything - the main thing is not to delve into the essence of the problem, its history, reasons. Especially when from each iron - you have been told about bad Russians all your life. But the problem is that if your politicians do not realize the true reasons for what is happening, then the world will change without their participation. Right now Europe is on the verge of an economic catastrophe, simply because your politicians decided to ride the emotional wave of the population and earn a couple of points of approval. When oil costs $140-150, they will simply tell you that Putin is to blame. And they will continue to strip the Europeans in favor of the United States.

A simple example is that it was not Gazprom that earned the most from the increase in gas prices in 2021, but German gas distribution companies. It was they who, taking advantage of the fact that the UK does not have its own large gas storage facilities, sold gas to the British at a gigantic price. And for all this time, none of these companies have ever tried to buy additional volumes of gas from Gazprom in order to bring down gas prices.
But the entire European press shouted that Gazprom was to blame (which also increased gas supplies to the European market bypassing German intermediaries, which eventually lowered the price).

And there are many such examples. Russia is being appointed guilty, the population readily believes in it, and if they don't believe it, then take dear Europeans - another story about Putin's new palace. And yes - I don't want you to believe me - I want you to check what I'm writing here. This is the only way our discussion will be able to overcome myths and emotions, and become more substantive and close to reality.

a reply to: IAMTAT

You need to ask Ukrainians about this.
I know for sure that after the recent events in Kazakhstan, similar laboratories in Central Asia are being liquidated.
Russia constantly demands international inspections and monitoring of the activities of these laboratories (some are located 100 kilometers from the Russian border), but the United States blocks these initiatives.
The Ukrainian laboratories had to be evacuated a week before the operation of the Russian forces. But whether this is so, I do not know.

a reply to: BZiker

Very little about the Kazakstan biolab in the MSM here in the US.
It appears it was yet another US/CHINA project.

I'll need to find more on this, but I suspect Fauci will be deeply involved somehow.

a reply to: McGinty

ahh mcginty a very good point , one should assume all news media is fake at the outset and do your due diligence to find the truth of the matter yourself.

I often have multiple news media tabs open to see if there are gaps in the stories , or things that dont tie together
I also follow my gut instinct when watching the news.

you know they are up to no good when they start using arma 3 footage

and for someone with over 2000+ hrs in that game I find it #ing hilarious that a world government would think that a 10 yr old game engine footage would convince people

I’m listening to Lavrov talk live and tbh what he says regarding ww3 is rationale and not conforming to the alarmist nature spun around Putin’s words. He’s at pains to infer that it’s Nato (the European aspect), rather than the US which is trying to provoke conflict. Reading between the lines (so just imo) he’s talking about the globalist agenda having ambitions to assimilate Russia into Europe, removing its sovereignty. Whether one thinks that good, or even real or not, you can understand the Russian fear of it

Surely the road out of this is to make those ex-Soviet nations neutral; no Russian or nato military allowed in - form a cushion. The absence of that narrative speaks volumes about the true ambitions of those omitting it.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Oh hey I was talking about all world media , not specifically American left/right

all world media are guilty of producing propaganda when it suits them or when they are told or paid to do so

I dont trust any news media so I have to look at them all to try and see what the truth could be or what it isnt
and most often the truth never comes because its surrounded by too many lies

I normally watch this guy and he is just explaining what is happening to him with these sanctions
he is a youtuber so he thinks soon his job wont exist as youtube maybe blocked



so their biggest complaint seems that they cant get paid as they cut off SWIFT

I have myself seen some of our Russian game devs in the indie game company I work for , they havent been able to be paid
as they use banks which were reliant on SWIFT

a reply to: McGinty

No-one wants to take over Russia....its a ridiculous proposition.

Saying that I wouldn't be surprised if some of those elitists in the EU had contemplated the idea but it would never get any serious traction.
The shear logistics of it would render it unviable.

Personally I think we need a strong independent Russia.
Not at loggerheads all the time with NATO/EU etc but strong nonetheless.
They provide a sort of counter-balance to each other and prevent the expansionism of both sides.

And lets face it, that is one of the major contributory factors of this crisis; both sides wanting to extend their reach and influence into the same area.

I think Ukraine is going to be hung out to dry - I honestly don't know what the alternative is.
We will be left with instability and deep mistrust on both sides....a new Cold War.
That will impact so many things.

In the long term I don't think Putin will be satisfied with just the Ukraine....he'll have his eyes on The Baltic States.

I think it would be incredibly beneficial for everyone if someone within Russia could see to 'retiring' Putin one way or another.

a reply to: Freeborn
Absolutely! Assimilating Russia into the globalist agenda/EU is as daft as a box of monkeys. But of course there’ll be fanatics within the power structures who somehow think it doable, no doubt hypnotised by the cash they’ll make from such a consolidated Europe. Their biggest leverage on those thinking this daft will be the promise of not paying Russia so much cash for gas. Those over ambitious, greedy nutters are probably a marginal voice in the EU/nato, not taken seriously.

But imo Putin’s actions are in no small part derived from the fear that this is on the west’s to-do list.

I wonder if anyone’s keeping tabs on the movements of all the billionaires around the world. If the rich start moving their families to the Southern Hemisphere then we’re probably fvcked

originally posted by: McGinty
I wonder if anyone’s keeping tabs on the movements of all the billionaires around the world. If the rich start moving their families to the Southern Hemisphere then we’re probably fvcked

Real estate prices in Argentina going up?

Cheers

a reply to: BZiker

Do you guys seriously think that if you kill Putin, something will change?

Absolutely, yes.

The Russian people have a desire to live in safety.

As do all sane, rational people regardless of nationality.

Surrounded by neutral neighbors. Look at the relations between Russia and Finland since the end of the Second World War. This country is actually neutral. It has excellent economic relations with Russia, and Russia has no complaints about Finland.

Then why did Putin recently threaten Finland and Sweden?

And even better, NATO troops should not be based further than Germany.

On the face of it a reasonable request.
Would that prevent Russia invading Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk etc?

And what if sovereign, independent nations like Poland WANT to join NATO?
Are you saying that they should be prevented from doing so?

Most of us on here acknowledge that NATO has encroached too far eastwards and has at times shown a complete lack of regard for Russian considerations....but none of that excuses this invasion of Ukraine.

It would be absolutely great if NATO stopped bombing independent states.....

Without a shadow of a doubt, no argument from me there.

So because NATO has been wrong in doing so Russia has decided to be equally as wrong?

....without the sanction of the UN Security Council,

The UN is a great idea in principle, useless in practice.

....and in general if NATO remembered that you are a defensive alliance,...

In one fell swoop Putin has made it eminently clear just why it is imperative that we have a strong NATO.
Yes, a defensive alliance....but one that is fully prepared to strike when threatened.

... I am not even stuttering about the fact that sanctions should be imposed only in accordance with current international law - by decision of the UN Security Council or the UN General Assembly.

What, so any member of the Security Council could veto when sanctions were directed at them?

All nations have the right to issue sanctions against whoever they see fit....its part of being independent.
If Russia wants to issue sanctions against EU/NATO aligned countries then feel free, that is entirely your right.

I understand this simple and convenient solution - to remove Putin and solve everything -

Not everything.
But it would go a long way to easing current tensions and then hopefully calmer heads could try to negotiate longer term solutions.

..... you have been told about bad Russians all your life.

Err....no we haven't.
I remember The Cold War....we were brow beaten about the ideology, not the people.
Since then lots of us have met more than enough Russians - and other Eastern Europeans - to know that they have exactly the same cares, concerns and interests as the rest of us and just want to get on with living their lives the best they can.
Russian people are not portrayed as 'bad people'.

But the problem is that if your politicians do not realize the true reasons for what is happening,....

Whereas your politicians are so enlightened and they do?
Its my experience that politicians are politicians the world over and rarely do their interests and agenda's coincide with the well being and best interests of the people they allegedly serve and/or represent etc.

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2

originally posted by: McGinty
I wonder if anyone’s keeping tabs on the movements of all the billionaires around the world. If the rich start moving their families to the Southern Hemisphere then we’re probably fvcked

Real estate prices in Argentina going up?

Cheers

Real estate prices in London are going up… it’s a crazy world!

originally posted by: Freeborn

And what if sovereign, independent nations like Poland WANT to join NATO?
Are you saying that they should be prevented from doing so?

Honestly, I do think they should be prevented from doing so. Just as the US would prevent Mexico joining a Russian military alliance, or England prevent Scotland in they went independent and desired to (not suggesting either of those things is going to happen).

Whether that would put Putin back in his box, who knows? But NATO‘Ing those on his doorstep unsurprisingly winds him up. In an ideal world he’d trust nato not to put nukes in his neighbours countries but it’s not an ideal world and frankly I wouldn’t trust nato not pop some nuke silos in them, or even sell their new customers their own WMDs.

a reply to: McGinty

But imo Putin’s actions are in no small part derived from the fear that this is on the west’s to-do list.

I have no doubt he's using this as one of his justifications when 'discussing' things with his inner circle or when speaking to the Russian people.

But I think his own personal motivations are more to do with his passion for Greater Russia and what he see's as his destiny and legacy of reclaiming former glories.

a reply to: Freeborn

Let’s prey any dreams of glory don’t supersede his common sense. There’d be no glory cos there’d be no Russia, or any other nation left on the planet worth living in.

a reply to: McGinty

I get that mate.
I absolutely agree that NATO's advance into former Warsaw Pact/USSR lands has provoked Russia....of course they feel slightly threatened.
And I'm certain that the US's response would have been swifter and possible more severe if similar happened in Mexico or Canada.

So I can see the obvious benefits of not allowing them to join NATO.

But surely that's also completely contrary to the whole concept of being 'independent'?
If an independent Poland wants to be part of NATO - or any other organisation/alliance etc - what gives anyone the right to deny them?

And then we have to ask; why does a country like Poland want to be a part of NATO?
And the answer to that is that they fear Russia after nearly 50 years of being a Russian vassal state and they know they haven't got the strength to resist Russia if it chose to advance on them again.

Nothing is black and white.

originally posted by: Freeborn

If an independent Poland wants to be part of NATO - or any other organisation/alliance etc - what gives anyone the right to deny them?

Nothing gives them the right, but 1,456 currently deployed nuclear warheads gives them the means.

You can stand up to the bully and then he's going to clobber you. In the playground that can be a learning experience. Get a few punches to connect before you're on your arse and on the way to A&E and that bully might think twice before clobbering you again; such we hope is the case with Ukraine swinging a few wild hooks at Russia.

But if that bully's got a nuclear arsenal and he uses it, then no lesson's are learned and it doesn't matter who was right or wrong, because no one's getting up from it.