UKRAINE/RUSSIA WAR - looks like it’s started

a reply to: BZiker

Sevastopol was a Russian town/naval base since like more than 200 years?
Crimea..

But I wonder..

Why is there always this battle between Russia and USA.
Patton wanted to not stop at the middle of Germany and keep going into Russia at the end of WW2.

What is it if we both want to fight against terrorism, NAZIs, and other people.. What is it that we don't get along?

What do you think it is?

originally posted by: Reverbs
a reply to: BZiker

Sevastopol was a Russian town/naval base since like more than 200 years?
Crimea..

But I wonder..

Why is there always this battle between Russia and USA.
Patton wanted to not stop at the middle of Germany and keep going into Russia at the end of WW2.

What is it if we both want to fight against terrorism, NAZIs, and other people.. What is it that we don't get along?

What do you think it is?

Patton saw what stalin was planning and thought his 'plan' was the only way to prevent what became the enslavement of half of Europe and the cold war.

No other reason.

We decided to give stalin more rope.

Were lucky to survive.



Seriously, we have absolutely nothing at all against russia or russians.

Just want them to join the civilized world.

So we can all be friends again.

We were beyond celebratory when we thought that was finally happening in the 90s, before everyone fkd it up.

a reply to: IAMTAT

During the Second World War, the German Nazis were supported by units of the Ukrainian Nazis. They had their own SS division "Galicia".
When the Soviet Union was disbanded, the Ukrainian population had a widespread question "why, in fact, one people - Ukrainians and Russians - two states?".
This puzzled Ukrainian oligarchs who feared that in the case of integration of Russia and Ukraine, their assets would face the threat of absorption by Russian oligarchs (Russian oligarchs have significantly greater financial capabilities than Ukrainian ones). To prevent this from happening, Ukrainians began to be turned against Russia. The former president of Ukraine wrote the book "Ukraine is not Russia", and the project itself unofficially became known as "anti-Russia".

Back in the 90s, the Ukrainian authorities gave the green light to various organizations of Ukrainian neo-Nazis. The most famous of them is the "Right Sector". These people raised the SS division "Galicia" to a cult (these are war criminals according to the verdict of the international tribunal in Nuremberg). They created many neo-Nazi youth organizations all over Ukraine. They participated in the civil conflict in Chechnya on the side of al Qaeda. Many of their leaders are wanted through Interpol. But at the same time they live quietly in Ukraine.
In fact, the neo-Nazis became militants of the Ukrainian oligarchs.

The Anti-Russia project was supported with interest by NATO and the United States.
When in 2014 the Ukrainian oligarchs, with the support and funding of the US State Department in the person of Victoria Nuland, carried out a coup in Ukraine, the main striking force in clashes with special police detachments were precisely neo-Nazis.
After the successful coup, the neo-Nazi leaders demanded high positions in the government of Ukraine. The Prosecutor General of Ukraine, the head of the Security Service of Ukraine (local KGB), the head of the Interior Ministry - all these and many other key positions in the Government of Ukraine were occupied by these people.
When part of the territories of Ukraine (in particular Donbass, Crimea and some other territories) expressed doubts about the legitimacy of the new authorities, the neo-Nazis sent their fighters to these territories (then just a crowd armed with bats, knives - not firearms). Part of the territories were taken under control (Eastern and Southern Ukraine), Crimea demanded the protection of Russia, and Donbass provided independent armed resistance by the forces of the people's militia.

After that, the Nazis in the government decided to ban the Russian language in Ukraine. For more than half of Ukrainians, Russian is their native language. Ethnically, they are Russians. All those who disagree with this policy were subjected to lustration, and removed from the political arena. Some human rights defenders were simply killed by unknown persons (for example, Oles Buzina). At the same time, the first armed formations of Ukrainian Nazis were formed since the end of World War II. They are called "national battalions". They do not take an oath and do not obey the armed forces of Ukraine. The most famous example is the Aidar battalion - many confirmed atrocities against civilians and captured members of the Donbass resistance. He is no longer there, too many of their atrocities have leaked into the information field. But several new neo-Nazi battalions were created on its base. In reality, they obey their sponsors - the Ukrainian oligarchs.

The resistance of Donbass, faced with this threat, turned to the Russian Government for help and began to call for the help of all those who are not indifferent.The Russian government has ignored these calls for a long time. This caused widespread discontent among the Russian population, and civilian volunteers began to arrive in Donbass, public organizations collected humanitarian aid throughout Russia. As a result, the Russian Government intervened and supported, first of all, humanitarian and diplomatic residents of Donbass. In many ways, this decision was prompted by the crimes of neo-Nazis that got on the Internet. This formed a wave of public discontent in Russia.

In general, as always, the private interests of a handful of criminals are behind the tragedy of millions of people.
Forgive me for the large volume of text. I hope you will check my statements

Those poor brainwashed Russian souls don't know what will hit them. Russia is poor, average Russian by the standards in west is poor. They don't have high quality of life. Now that will be even drastically reduced for what? Some country that average Russian have no benefit from?

Poor Russians they will need humanitarian support in few years from now. Damage is already done, no matter what's happens with Ukraine. Russians better work to get in NATO because as far as war in Ukraine goes NATO could win without having boots on ground...

a reply to: PatriotGames4u
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At the end of the Cold War, we also wanted to turn the page on the conflict with the West and start a new relationship. All the 90s we were open to the West. Employees of your special services worked on the territory of all our secret facilities. Your economic advisers dictated to our government what to do and how to do it.

Ordinary Russians sincerely believed that this was a new era of relations.
But in the end, your corporations, together with our oligarchs (Khodorkovsky is the most famous of them), plundered our country. The population of the middle class in the USSR fell into poverty in the 90s. The NATO bloc was moving towards the borders of a weakened Russia, Madeleine Albright said that 145 million Russians is too much to service a gas pipe - 15 million will be enough. The bandit insurgency in Chechnya was pumped up with Western money and weapons, and no one in the West was embarrassed by the support of Al-Qaeda by your special services. These terrorists blew up residential buildings all over Russia. And when Russia tried to defend itself by concentrating its last forces on this, information harassment was launched against Russia.

Nothing personal, just business.

Somewhere at this moment, the Russians realized that the world is old. The conflict has not disappeared anywhere. They simply spat into the outstretched hand of friendship. And then Putin comes and slowly but surely begins to pull the country out of clinical death. Perhaps this explains why it is possible to set up against Putin mainly those who lived well in the 90s, or young people who did not see the abyss where the peoples of Russia looked.

We no longer trust your organizations and politicians. The United States easily breaks any strategic agreements if it is beneficial to them, and switches to a policy of information terror and blackmail of sanctions when it wants to bargain about new treaties. Agree, you can deal with such people only from a position of strength. Especially if you are responsible for 150 million people.

a reply to: saadad

Poor Russians they will need humanitarian support in few years from now

You arent concerned about the weakening Europe and its weakening economy.
We should be more concerned about our economy than that of Russia's.

Somewhere in Western Europe, Italian families live on the streets, some live in their cars and have no place to own nor to feed their children.

a reply to: BZiker

Care to mention the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Ukrainians who loyally served in the Red Army during the war?

Russians have this strange way of forgetting that, and forgetting that the numbers of Ukrainians who loyally served the Soviet Union FAR OUTNUMBERED those who joined the German side.

Take a broader perspective of history. It is an enlightening thing to do.

Cheers

a reply to: vNex92


Not worried one little bit.

You really don't understand.

Do your worst.

We don't care.

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: saadad

Poor Russians they will need humanitarian support in few years from now

You arent concerned about the weakening Europe and its weakening economy.
We should be more concerned about our economy than that of Russia's.

No, average European will drop from 2 cars to one car. Average Russian will drop from having bread to no bread. Maybe when they feel hunger they choose a proper leader and drop ancient regiment and join the future.

BTW i am coming from one of the poorest European countries, and even in my country average citizen have 2 cars

a reply to: BZiker


I agree with most of that.

Strongly.

Surprised?

You shouldn't be.




Couple ginormous differences though.

We don't invade and enslave our neighbors.

And we don't threaten to blow up the planet cuz we have feelz.

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Patton wanted to not stop at the middle of Germany and keep going into Russia at the end of WW2.

He was a racist who called them Mongols.

a reply to: saadad

No, average European will drop from 2 cars to one car.

The Supply Chain, Inflation issues arent going away.. The Prices will keep rising. Just wait and watch..

drop ancient regiment and join the future
What Future? the future of a EU Super State? how is that future? if anyone should drop that ancient regiment its the UK/Germany that they think can control the whole of Europe with the American bases in them.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Yep. The one thing the pro-Russian voices on ATS don't want to hear is Americans making clear that while they despise the political and military adventurism of Vladimir Putin ... we have NOTHING against Russia itself, and ESPECIALLY nothing against the Russian people.

I have no doubt average Russians are the salt of the earth. I am aware of Russia's gifts to culture and of the high number of talented artists and athletes their country has.

But Putin and his kleptocratic oligarchy are beyond vile.

Cheers

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

I have no doubt average Russians are the salt of the earth

The average Russians haven't forgotten what past leaders did to Russia.

a reply to: saadad
In the USA, there are more incomes, but expenses are also more proportionally.
So in the end, I can say that we live about the same. Yes, in the USA the climate is better and the improvement of public spaces. There is nothing to be done about the climate, and they have been working hard on landscaping over the past few years. Large cities are already finishing this process, small ones are just beginning.

As for the standard of living of Russians in the future, then you do not understand a simple point. Any restrictions on the supply of any goods produced in the West immediately turn into the opening production of similar Russian-made goods. Before the sanctions, dumping of global corporations made this process simply impossible, but now we have industrial growth of 8.9% year on year. The growth has been going on for 11 months in a row.

Ordinary Russians perceive sanctions not as an instrument of pressure on the government of the Russian Federation, but as pressure on our entire people. And at first, many people were scared of sanctions, but many years later it became clear that any new sanctions create new jobs in Russia.

This is an inconvenient truth for Western politicians. Do not engage in self-deception.
It will now be very difficult for your politicians to prove to Russia that you are not hostile.
But until they prove it, the relationship will not change.

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Patton wanted to not stop at the middle of Germany and keep going into Russia at the end of WW2.

He was a racist who called them Mongols.

Passionate soldiers tend to say offensive things about the enemy trying to kill them.

Human nature.

Patton was no racist.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Good to know you prefer a racist general who hated not just Russians but all other Slavs.

a reply to: vNex92

You not from Europe? Who cares if we are from super state or whatever if we have a good quality of life.

By future I mean, create a high quality life for their citizens... We in Europe and west we have that, that's no secret everyone knows that. Do you watch Ukraine reports? Look at room details, look at windows, furniture, these people are poor.

a reply to: saadad

if we have a good quality of life.

It will be expensive in many western countries..

a reply to: BZiker

Are you joking? You compare Russia with USA quality of life? Man I am from poorest European union country and we have higher quality of life than Russians.

I am not comparing oligarchs, i am comparing average people... Russia don't even come close...