Russia Ukraine Update Thread

a reply to: McGinty

If Hitler had nuclear weapons than its beyond doubt he would have used them in the last days of The Reich.

And Putin will.
He himself has said so on several occasions.

When asked if Russia would use a pre-emptive first strike nuclear attack if Russia was facing defeat in a conventional war he categorically stated he would;
"What is the world without Russia".

Its a truly awful dilemma we face: Give in to Putin's bullying and intimidation or go to war.
The first option could very well lead to the second anyway.

Putin will not back down and he is beyond reasoning....he is set on this course of action and nothing will change his mind.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: McGinty

If Hitler had nuclear weapons than its beyond doubt he would have used them in the last days of The Reich.

And Putin will.
He himself has said so on several occasions.

When asked if Russia would use a pre-emptive first strike nuclear attack if Russia was facing defeat in a conventional war he categorically stated he would;
"What is the world without Russia".

Its a truly awful dilemma we face: Give in to Putin's bullying and intimidation or go to war.
The first option could very well lead to the second anyway.

Putin will not back down and he is beyond reasoning....he is set on this course of action and nothing will change his mind.

It’s not just Putin here. Any nation would. If they have the capability.

They all do it in one form or another.

a reply to: Imhere

Any nation would initiate a global nuclear war if they had the capability and faced defeat in a conventional war?

I'd like to think not.
Let's hope we never find out.

Double post, my bad.

Im all fingers and thumbs this morning.

a reply to: andy06shake

John Oliver's take on the matter from Last Week Tonight.

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: McGinty

If Hitler had nuclear weapons than its beyond doubt he would have used them in the last days of The Reich.

And Putin will.
He himself has said so on several occasions.

When asked if Russia would use a pre-emptive first strike nuclear attack if Russia was facing defeat in a conventional war he categorically stated he would;
"What is the world without Russia".

Its a truly awful dilemma we face: Give in to Putin's bullying and intimidation or go to war.
The first option could very well lead to the second anyway.

Putin will not back down and he is beyond reasoning....he is set on this course of action and nothing will change his mind.

Exactly on all accounts, Putin wants a fight and is dangling his juiciest carrot whilst waiting for Xi.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Imhere

Any nation would initiate a global nuclear war if they had the capability and faced defeat in a conventional war?

I'd like to think not.
Let's hope we never find out.

Many people say a lot of things both sides of the aisle.

Stay stuck on Putin.

He didn’t exactly surprise anyone. For a lot though, it was only 2 weeks ago or so

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Imhere

Any nation would initiate a global nuclear war if they had the capability and faced defeat in a conventional war?

In part, the answer to that question depends on if the related platforms for launching nuclear weapons survive the conventional element of the war.

I'd like to think not.
Let's hope we never find out.

IMO, there are two unspoken risks confronting military planners and political leaders. First, nuclear deterrence fails to deter Putin from invading western Europe and China from going on the warpath in Asia. Second, a limited nuclear exchange fails to act as the circuit breaker, leading to a peace settlement.

a reply to: Imhere

Its not people saying things that's the problem all the same but the actions of one man and one nation that has the world heading down a path towards nuclear annihilation.

I found this conversation from last night to be a really great breakdown of what has happened militarily and what may be to come. Russian military experts Robert Lee and Michael Kofman, moderated by Dmitri Alperovitch.

twitter.com/i/spaces/1vAxRkddrOrKl

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: ufoorbhunter


2.5% voted for folks that russians CALL nazis.

Nobody believes anything russia says.

It's nobody's business who Ukrainians vote for.

And even a 100% vote for ACTUAL nazis is NOT justification for invading a peaceful neighbor.

Look I'm not taking sides here in an inter Slavic gangster war.................... It's just nothing is good and bad or black and white here regarding both Russia and Ukraine.

The truth is Russians have been discrimintated against by Nazi sympathisers in Ukraine and been under attack, shelled and beaten up in the streets for merly speaking their own language.

All you can see is Ukraine good Russia bad. It's far more complicated than that plus with have a whole host of outside influences adding to the fire.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

So where are all the videos and testimonies of these people beaten up in the streets for merely speaking their own language?

Surely there is evidence to support these claims.

Genuinely asking because i have not come across any i seem to recall.

I'm not saying it does not happen, or that there is no issue with neo Nazis in Ukraine but don't you imagine Putin simply used it as an excuse to invade?

Technically the UK and the USA also have a problem with Nazi sympathisers and racist organisations becoming more prevalent same with France and a lot of other European nations, are we next?

Should also add Russia has its own dilemmas with Nazi sympathisers and right-wing lunatics never mind the Ukraine seems rather hypocritical on there part.

a reply to: xpert11

The thing is, despite all our hypotheses, all our 'what about's' and 'what if's' there is only one national leader seriously contemplating, suggesting and threatening first strike nuclear attack and that is Putin.
None of his predecessors did.
Certainly none of his contemporaries are - well, apart from that idiot in North Korea but I think he can be managed at present.
Xi won't.
Biden won't.

I don't think there could be a limited nuclear exchange involving the major big hitters, one goes they all go....and us with it.

If 'we' do nothing about Ukraine will Putin think he's been given carte blanche to do as he pleases?
If 'we' do something will Putin press the button?

An awful predicament....I know I keep on saying it but I certainly don't have any answers.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

How does Putin even get away with such a claim? Ukraine has a Jewish president giving it all to his country of Nazi sympathizers? C'mon. You can find a Nazi anywhere and everywhere. You can find an anecdotal case or photo of a group of Nazis anywhere and everywhere. Where is the large-scale evidence for such a claim?

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I don't care what anyone says to deny this but in my experience this is undeniably true; racism is far more prevalent, and extreme, in eastern Europe in general than it is in western Europe, USA etc.
Yes, there are neo-Nazi elements in Ukraine....as there are in Russia; RNU has 100,000 members and is at least as much a neo-Nazi organisation as any you'll find in Ukraine.

Yes, there have been many contributory factors to the current crisis, not all of Russia's doing.
Very little in this world is black and white.

But none of that excuses the wholescale invasion of Ukraine and all the death and destruction that is going with it.
None of that excuses things like bombing nuclear power plants.
None of that excuses using the threat of global nuclear war to blackmail and destabilise the world.

That is down to Putin and Putin alone.

a reply to: Freeborn

Freeborn yes Putin is totally out of control. I completely inderstand all the nonsense going on out there. But nobody would listen to Russia over the years and their justified desire to keep NATO bases away from their gorder with Ukraine.

It's one crap show right now and we are gonna have a load of new Ukrainian food shops opening up in our localities very soon next to the Kurdish barders and Polish salami outlets.

I just don't see how Patriotgames and their total one sided propaganda war when nobody gave a monkeys a month ago is balanced in any way. They are all Russia bad Ukraine good is fair on a conspiracy website.

a reply to: andy06shake

A souser last week on radio 2 mate. He sounded genuine at Kakhov and how his wifes family can't enter certain zones, the Nazis beat em up for just being a speaker of Russian. These things are going on out there, for sure it doesn't mean Vlad can take out the whole country but when Patriot games gets into gear one would have though Zelensky is G-d itself and Putin the devil x 100

GAWRSH!

Reports that Ukrainian Marines relieved Putin's army of the responsibility to maintain up to 30 helicopters last night.

Airfield raid. To be confirmed.

See here.

Cheers

a reply to: Freeborn

I understand the risks concerning Russia employing nuclear weapons. But I do not doubt that giving Putin a free hand in Ukraine speeds up the timetable for Russia invading western Europe. Strategically, the problem is that the appalling state of the German armed forces leaves Poland and the Baltic States with no conventional warfare backbone behind them.


How people in the UK and elsewhere are donating equipment to the Ukrainian Army is a sign unheeded. The current levels of logistical support provided to Ukraine by NATO and the international community are a sign of solidarity but are unlikely to impact the war's outcome.

So, in short, it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that France, the UK or the U.S. deploy nuclear weapons in a first strike role.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

But,,but..but...but...

No buts; This is Putin's doing. End of story.

We all, each and every one of us are responsible for our own actions.

The choices I've made, the mistakes I've made - and there's been a #ing hell of a lot of them - have been down to me.
Extenuating circumstances? Sometimes.
Reasons and contributory factors? Nearly always.
But they've been my choices...my responsibility.
People have been hurt....sometimes seriously....and that has been down to me and no-one else.

Putin is no different.....just on a hugely, massively different scale.
He made the decision to invade and kill people.
He is taking the world to a place we've never been before.
His choices.
His responsibility.