It's ILLOGICAL to think God didn't Create the Universe

a reply to: cooperton
Nice loophole. Circular logic but I guess it works for you.

Now, can you prove that?

ETA: Also, if god is as you say, why would they be critical of the beings he created with such a limited capacity?

Just something else you might want to think about.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: Klassified

I myself cannot help wondering if there isn't something more. And very often I find reasons to think, that there very well may be, and probably is. Something more then we can comprehend, at the moment. My thing is though, that I don't think it's anything that any one particular religion or sect thereof, has all the answers to. The narratives are interesting, and thought provoking, and no doubt offer insight. But for me, they fall into the realm of myths, and symbolism, etc.

Which doesn't make them "wrong". Just wrong in the sense of "truth". If you get my gist.. There is something there, historically, culturally, humanly, a forgotten past, told through stories.. And various cultures and interpretations. Stuff like that. Kinda vague but you get what I'm trying to throw down.

Gosh if I was thinking like that I would just accept Jesus Christ as your savior.......

You can't go wrong that way, and if you earnestly pray and seek him you'll probably get some answers that confirm you made the right choice....

I would think it's worth a shot at least?

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: cooperton
Nice loophole. Circular logic but I guess it works for you.

It's not circular. If something didn't have a beginning that means it was never created. Very simple logic.

ETA: Also, if god is as you say, why would they be critical of the beings he created with such a limited capacity?

Just something else you might want to think about.

The same way a biological dad should be critical of their kid to some degree if they actually care about them. Yes.

originally posted by: cooperton
It's not circular. If something didn't have a beginning that means it was never created. Very simple logic.

The god of the bible has no beginning or end because the bible says so, is circular logic.

The same way a biological dad should be critical of their kid if they actually care about them. Yes.

No, because god isn't, or at least shouldn't be, limited in the same way a biological dad would be.

Why are you attributing human characteristics to a being who isn't burdened with the human experience and its limitations?

originally posted by: daskakik
The god of the bible has no beginning or end because the bible says so, is circular logic.

The existence of anything whatsoever implies there was always something that existed, because we know something cannot come from nothing. It doesn't require the Bible to see this logic, it's one of Newton's Laws.

No, because god isn't, or at least shouldn't be, limited in the same way a biological dad would be.

Yeah he's even greater, but still shares a similar relationship to his children as would a biological dad. It's endearing and great to have the founder of the cosmos as your Creator and Parent. So no I'd actually have it no other way haha.

Why are you attributing human characteristics to a being who isn't burdened with the human experience and its limitations?

The human experience is like a birthing process. Obviously God could override it, but we should learn the various facets of life through free will. No one likes the rich dad who interferes and micromanages everything his child does.

originally posted by: cooperton
The existence of anything whatsoever implies there was always something that existed, because we know something cannot come from nothing. It doesn't require the Bible to see this logic, it's one of Newton's Laws.

Newton's laws have nothing to do with that. They just have to do with motion of physical matter.

Actually, we don't know if something can or cannot come from nothing.

Yeah he's even greater, but still shares a similar relationship to his children as would a biological dad.

Was that him being dad of the year when he ordered the pillaging of towns in the OT?

The human experience is like a birthing process. Obviously God could override it, but we should learn the various facets of life through free will.

Why should we? What difference would it make?

No one likes the rich dad who interferes and micromanages everything his child does.

Isn't the god of the bible micromanaging when he tells you what you can and can't do and threatens hell if you don't comply?

originally posted by: daskakik

Newton's laws have nothing to do with (something coming from nothing). They just have to do with motion of physical matter.

Actually, we don't know if something can or cannot come from nothing.

You're right it was actually a mathematician from the 1800s who termed the law of conservation of energy. Einstein also reiterated that energy can neither be created or destroyed. Energy cannot come from nothing. It's the same logic I stated above.

Was that him being dad of the year when he ordered the pillaging of towns in the OT?

The same logic as storming the beaches of Normandy. To protect what's right, you sometimes had to fight in the Old Testament times. A parent would go to far lengths to save their righteous children from delinquents. According to your logic we should've just surrendered and let Germany and the axis powers have their way with us.

Why should we? What difference would it make?

Isn't the god of the bible micromanaging when he tells you what you can and can't do and threatens hell if you don't comply?

Your viewpoint comes from a psyche that doesn't want to understand, you're simply trying to prove it wrong at all costs. The guidelines are actually very straight-forward: love God and love eachother and your life will be pretty sweet. I can attest to this, especially in comparison to when I was doing the opposite of both of those simple commands. Which of the 10 commandments do you have a problem with haha? It's actually quite simple and peaceful. Hell is a place of arguing and suffering (weeping and gnashing of teeth), it's what people who stubbornly reject truth will impose on their self. God couldn't have made it any easier for you to enter paradise while still maintaining your free will.

originally posted by: cooperton
You're right it was actually a mathematician from the 1800s who termed the law of conservation of energy. Einstein also reiterated that energy can neither be created or destroyed. Energy cannot come from nothing. It's the same logic.

You literally just made an argument for energy not being created when your argument is in favor of a creator.

The same logic as storming the beaches of Normandy. To protect what's right, you sometimes had to fight in the Old Testament times. A parent would go to far lengths to save their righteous children from delinquents. According to your logic we should've just surrendered and let Germany and the axis powers have their way with us.

You mean the ones who didn't worship him? Sorry, that is not the same as WWII.

The guidelines are actually very straight-forward

Doesn't matter, it is still him telling you what to do, aka micromanaging, which you said nobody likes but at the same time you approve of it.

You are shooting down your own arguments.

originally posted by: daskakik

You literally just made an argument for energy not being created when your argument is about a creator.

The Creator was never created (always existed). This is the source of all things.

You mean the ones who didn't worship him? Sorry, that is not the same as WWII.

No he actually was chill with most civilizations until they encroached on other's righteousness. He even chose Nebuchadnezzar over anyone in Israel because Israel had become so depraved. You have to read into context more.

Doesn't matter, it is still him telling you what to do, aka micromanaging, which you said nobody likes but at the same time you approve of it.

You are shooting down your own arguments.

You're just being obtuse. Hoping the best for ya dude. It doesn't help in any way to hold so much resentment against theology.

originally posted by: cooperton
The Creator was never created. This is the source of all things.

Swoosh!

If energy cannot be created then the creator can't create it.

If you posit that the creator created it then why bring up the conservation of energy?

No he actually was chill with most civilizations until they encroached on other's righteousness. He even chose Nebuchadnezzar over anyone in Israel because Israel had become so depraved. You have to read into context more.

So you are cool with a human killing one of their kids if they just decide that they deserve it?

You're just being obtuse. Hoping the best for ya dude. It doesn't help in any way to hold so much resentment against theology.

I don't resent theology, I see and am pointing out the flaws in your arguments.

originally posted by: daskakik

Swoosh!

If energy cannot be created then the creator can't create it.

If you posit that the creator created it then why bring up the conservation of energy?

All energy and all matter and all things existed as a part of the Creator. There is nothing that is outside of Him. All-encompassing is an aspect of 'Alpha-Omega'. Even the number of hairs on our head are known.

So you are cool with a human killing one of their kids if they just decide that they deserve it?

Would you prefer to let the cancer cell take over the entire body?

Jesus established a new Kingdom where the necessities of the Old Testament are no longer required. He opened up paths to a new world so that there is no longer a need to fight for earth. But yes in the Old Testament there was a lot of damage control to protect the world from total devastation and to allow the righteous to thrive.

I don't resent theology, I see and am pointing out the flaws in your arguments.

No you aren't.

originally posted by: cooperton
All energy and all matter and all things existed as a part of the Creator. There is nothing that is outside of Him. All-encompassing is an aspect of 'Alpha-Omega'. Even the number of hairs on our head are known.

You don't know this. It is just something you believe, that you can't really prove.

Would you prefer to let the cancer cell take over the entire body?

Dodging the question?

Is it ok for a human parent to kill their children on a whim?

Jesus established a new Kingdom where the necessities of the Old Testament are no longer required. He opened up paths to a new world so that there is no longer a need to fight for earth. But yes in the Old Testament there was a lot of damage control to protect the world from total devastation and to allow the righteous to thrive.

Well, seems like people are still fighting and killing. Some even do it in the name of god, maybe not yours but that just makes it easier to kill them back, doesn't it?

No you aren't.

Yes, I am.

I already told you in one of these neoholographic threads that I am open to the possibilities of a creator. I just don't think it is the one you think it is and your arguments are all I am refuting.

originally posted by: daskakik
Yes, I am (pointing out flaws in your argument).

And yet you say:

You don't know this. It is just something you believe, that you can't really prove.

lol. How's that refuting my logic? You aren't refuting anything, you're just denying everything. This is no way to have a conversation and it's a waste of both of our times. Again, best of luck with your endeavors.

Even if it's as late as your death bed, remember you're not a mutated accident

a reply to: daskakik

So what I'm seeing missing from this discussion as to why would "God" tell them to wipe out whole towns etc etc....

God is not a God of murder.... Many of these locations and towns were full of "The Seed of Cain" or aka "The Seed of Satan"/ offsping of "The Sons of God" Genesis 6... leaving their first estate and making babies with the good looking sexy earth women...

We're talking Giants here... abominations between Fallen Angels and Woman...

Genesis 6: And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; "AND ALSO AFTER THAT", when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

So we're not just talking... God didn't like some folks and he said go kill them... Which again they disobeyed and did not do what they were told to do.... We're pretty good at that as fallen mankind...

The universe is generally agreed to be 14 billion years old. 4.5ish billion years ago, our world was formed. A billion years after that, life was born. The genus Homo emerged 2.5 million years ago and roughly 100,000 years ago primitive humans evolved to homo sapiens or modern man. Written language was invented around 6,000 years ago, some time after that monotheism replaced polytheism and that's when your god was officially created. You're welcome.

According to the High Priests of Scientism... who preach their God hating filth from their pulpits... convincing folks they have no meaning or purpose... and just "Showed Up" here... as some "Star Dust" come to life....

Nice trick Satan... got em believing in nothingness... Tricky Dick you are... with your many lies.

a reply to: TzarChasm

originally posted by: TzarChasm
The universe is generally agreed to be 14 billion years old. 4.5ish billion years ago, our world was formed. A billion years after that, life was born. The genus Homo emerged 2.5 million years ago and roughly 100,000 years ago primitive humans evolved to homo sapiens or modern man. Written language was invented around 6,000 years ago, some time after that monotheism replaced polytheism and that's when your god was officially created. You're welcome.

Why do you want to convince people we're the ancestors of mutated apes? Serious question

a reply to: cooperton

Have you seen how many apes have been evolving lately.... It's crazy....

#Devolution

So, if God has existed forever, what did he do in his spare time before he made the earth and everything, you know?

a reply to: cooperton
That isn't the only argument you made although I am correct in saying that it is nothing more than your opinion.

It is all a waste of time because you are not going to win over any converts with your posts. In all your years here haven't you noticed it is often the same members just filling in threads with a lot of the same arguments?