It's ILLOGICAL to think God didn't Create the Universe

a reply to: Blue Shift
I think this is where the term spiritual atheist came from. Some people said I believe there can be a creator but I don't think anyone knows, as in all the religious texts that exist, what they might actually be.

And that brings it back to the topic of the OP which isn't there may be "some" creator. They are saying the "god of the bible" is the creator. There really is nothing to back that up.

a reply to: daskakik

I totally agree although coop's logic is sound, to me it seems unlikely intelligence could manifest unless it was already in existence. If you consider time as cyclical then it's self evident.

a reply to: [post=26111194]neoholographic[/post


It is Also ILLOGICAL to Think a " Supreme Being " that Created Our Universe Does Not Exist , but Some Disfunctional People Do ........(

originally posted by: daskakik

That is just your opinion. You have not and apparently can't prove it beyond that.

Be content in your belief and stop trying to force it on others.

People are free to believe in unintelligent matter creating intelligent conscious humans. But they should know this is the extremely less likely solution regarding the emergence of intelligent creatures.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Grenade
Some people are still trying to figure it out, empirically.

They may never get there but the other side isn't any closer either.

You can't just assume anyone who believes in Christ doesn't pursue knowledge empirically. That's textbook bigotry. I have come to my current understanding, regardless of how complete or incomplete that may be, through empirical pursuit.

a reply to: cooperton



" unintelligent matter "

Is that Even a " Thing " ...............
.Hmm..

a reply to: cooperton

Again i agree, i don't think i've ever seen you quote scripture as any kind of proof, which is refreshing.

originally posted by: cooperton
You can't just assume anyone who believes in Christ doesn't pursue knowledge empirically.

I've actually posted the opposite in response to you. Religious people can separate science from their personal philosophy.

I guess that is why temporary scientific placeholders for gaps in knowledge don't cause their panties to bunch up.

a reply to: Grenade
So you share their opinion. Great, now what?

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: cooperton



" unintelligent matter "

Is that Even a " Thing " ...............

.Hmm..

Good point. Matter itself, or the atom as far as we know it, exists as an empirically phenomenal structure. A positively charged nucleus being orbited in the manner of waveform by negatively charged electrons which generate the impassability effect of matter. All atoms have perpetuated in a precise manner for the entirety of known history (we would know otherwise, a minor change to intermolecular or intramolecular forces would result in an entire paradigm change regarding the physical world). These nanostructures have intelligibly predictable ratios which determine what kind of matter they are (iron, hydrogen, helium, etc, etc). The atoms react and harmonize in a way that allows biological to persist indefinitely, as well as the cosmic home that they inhabit.

To suppose atoms do not involve intelligence is yet another fallacy that material-reductionists seem to breeze over.

originally posted by: daskakik

I guess that is why temporary scientific placeholders for gaps in knowledge don't cause their panties to bunch up.

Evolution isn't a placeholder. It's in the trash bin. It offers no beneficial philosophical development, nor does it have any basis in empirical observation.

a reply to: daskakik

What Science Cannot PROVE , GOD Can ........................*)

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Grenade
So you share their opinion. Great, now what?

It's more a fact than an opinion unless you can prove intelligence can emerge from unintelligence. Like perhaps a terminator robot emerging by random chance. Or even a garage door opener somehow being programmed without an intelligent engineer creating it.

originally posted by: cooperton
It's more a fact than an opinion unless you can prove intelligence can emerge from unintelligence.

Sorry, but no, if we have no answer your guess (opinion) is no better than anyone else's.

a reply to: cooperton

Can Atoms Achieve Consciousness ? Well , Look in the Mirror ...........

originally posted by: daskakik

Sorry, but no, if we have no answer your guess (opinion) is no better than anyone else's.

Fact/opinion aside. What is more probable regarding the existence of an intelligent creature: that it was made by intelligence or unintelligence?

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: cooperton

Can Atoms Achieve Consciousness ? Well , Look in the Mirror ...........

So true. Great point.

originally posted by: daskakik

During a few of my OBE experiences I have seen the earth from space and did see a sphere.

According to your previous comments.... This doesn't hold much weight as to evidence... It's just "A Story"

I know this isn't proof for anyone else but it is to me. What else am I supposed to do with that?

Test it... that's what you do... test all things.... (You're claiming to be Astral Projecting... which IMHO, isn't a good thing of the Holy Spirit.... so IDk if you've tested the spirits/realm you say you're in... because many false spirits have gone out into the world... and who's to say what you are seeing or being shown is "The Truth"

Then I see videos of people launching go-pros up on rockets and balloons and they match what I saw. You have nothing to counter that.

OK so... I have a bit of experience in Photgraphy and Videography during my lifetime (Weddings/Events Photographer/Videographer/Drone)

Those videos you see of "Go Pro" footage is nothing more than "Fish Eye" curvature.... you get the same amount of convexity a few feet off the ground or to the sides of the lense level on the surface as you do at 120,000 feet or anywhere in between or above... So you can't use GoPro footage as any sort of proof or refference unles you were to dump that in software and correct that out....


The truth of the matter is the horizon always rises to eye level, no matter the height... which can not happen on a sphere...

As far as me not having nothing to counter you/that... LOL.... well...

Sorry friend... that's where you're wrong... I have 5 years of study, research and personal testing to counter with.... (This has been my baby/subject these last 5 years.... I got into it to prove the ball and stupid Flat Earthers wrong..)

There's so much evidence out there that refutes your statements (and Official Heliocentric Model) and beliefs it's actually not even funny... NASA Docs, .Gov Docs, .Mil Docs... Russian Docs... all claiming and assuming/working off...and I quote a "Non Rotating Flat Surace" or "Flat Non Rotating Earth"

There is so much Scripture... In the 66 Book Cannon... Extra Biblical Books... Enoch and other Ancient and Modern writings.... Ancient Cultures... even Modern Science, Commercial Pilots, Miltary Personel, Ex NASA employees, Surveryors, Cosmonaut, F-16 Pilot, etc etc etc and even the things NASA Astronauts have said in interviews or the fakery from the International Fake Station to the fake Moon Landing... and just good ole plain "Science" and "Testing" from folks here on the ground, laser tests, long distance photography, high altitude ballons to 120,000'...who went out looking to prove the ball exists.... Only to find... something aint right with that ole Globe on the teachers desk...

So yeah... I have a counter to what you said above... But I've learned...it's just not worth my time and energy.... to expend that much lifeforce on folks who have no desire to really test all things....

So with that... you get to believe what you want to believe.... and so do I...


Word...

originally posted by: cooperton
Fact/opinion aside. What is more probable regarding the existence of an intelligent creature: that it was made by intelligence or unintelligence?

The improbability of something happening is meaningless if that is what actually happened.

The probability of wining the lottery makes no difference to someone holding a wining ticket.

a reply to: cooperton

You/were wasting our breath arguing "Intelligence" vs "Unintelligence" or "Creation" vs "Singularity", "Big Bang", "Evolution"

The way to find the truth is to test the physical earth we stand on.... If it doesn't match their "Math" and "Model"... well their entire "Theory" they parrot as "Truth" (cuz Science Says So) falls apart and one is forced...if they're honest to re-examine what it is they thought they believed, where they live and who created it...

But I find most folks aren't that honest, nor can they exit the matrix to even fathom such a concept... with the desire to test it....

That's just too much science.... So faith in science is where people live.... They simply accept the world in which they've been presented... That and they want to fasion their own gods, philosophies, idols and beliefs to follow....

Deep down inside... I think everyone inherently knows... afterall God actually breathed His Ruach, Breath, Spirit inside of them.... they just have rejected it/Him....

2 Corinthians 4:

Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God,1 we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice 2 cunning or to tamper with God’s word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants 3 for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

a reply to: daskakik

Actually i was agreeing with you.

Now what?

originally posted by: daskakik

The improbability of something happening is meaningless if that is what actually happened.

I didn't ask the probability of something happening, I asked the probability of what was the cause of what we know happened.

Given an intelligent structure: i.e. a human, a microbe, a type-writer, an engine, etc, what is more likely to have been the cause of its coming to be.... something intelligent or something unintelligent?

a reply to: PaPaTaco
You have no counter to what I saw myself. Everything you have is second and third hand accounts.

We are all free to believe what we want, at the end of the day nobody can say who/what the creator is, or if there even is one.