It's ILLOGICAL to think God didn't Create the Universe

originally posted by: toktaylor
Matter and/or energy has always existed (in some form or another), and occasionally give rise to more complex things.
The Universe exists. The Universe has always existed in some form.
There is much waste and disorder in the Universe. Why would God carefully design hundreds of billions of galaxies if he only needed one? (We didn’t even know until recently that these other galaxies existed!) Why design entire galaxies, and then crash them into one another? Why make space so deadly for humans? Or place objects so far away that there is no hope of our ever reaching them? Why pelt random moons and planets with space-debris? Is there a reason for this kind of design? Is it intelligent? Or is it random? Nature’s behavior is wasteful, unguided, indifferent, and lacks the thoughtfulness one would expect from an intelligent designer.

Yeah I don't buy any of that notion anymore...

IMHO... That isn't the model he designed at all.... The Heliocentric SciFi version of our Galaxy thanks to NASA and the High Preists of the ever expanding billions of years old and billions of light years away universe.... all a bunch of "God Denying" bunk and twisting the evidence that this system was designed by the grand designer....

i sort of believed in god, religion, the whole deal, for a time when i was a boy. my (catholic,grammar, boys only) school made sure of that. as i grew older and saw how the world really was, those beliefs faded. now they are practically invisible.

a reply to: RoScoLaz5

The Roman Catholic Church... (especially Vatican 2) isn't really known for fostering a relationship with and belief in God/Jesus....

It's built on a lot of Pagan Practices and Traditions... Pretty corrupt and Evil in its inner sanctum....

As far as "Seeing How The World Really Is"... do you mean "Evil, Corrupt, Nasty, Full of Pride, Vanity, Sloth, Idolatry, Adultery, Lust, Greed, Deceit, Murder and every vile act or thing I didn't mention??? Is that what you're judging the existence of God by???

This World is Satans Kingdom my friend... It has yet to be redeemed. (But coming shortly... if the mirror I'm looking thru and seeing clearly... That AntiChrist NWO Beast system is just about ready to rise and be installed.... Then...oh boy oh boy.... get ready for the prophecy of the Bible yet fulfilled to come to life like you thought was practically invisible, dead and gone...

originally posted by: PaPaTaco
So that Jedi mind trick wont work with me

All I did was point out the similarity between that verse and your argument "If you don't love god, you hate him".

So you're saying you are astral projecting and such for no apparent reason???

If by reason you are referring to the cause, then mostly because I have done it a few times deliberately.

If you are referring to a reason as in a message being delivered or something, again mostly because I have not had any great wisdom relayed to me despite the many times it has happened.

Are you wandering around in our material realm or some spiritual realm...

Mostly our material realm. I've been in many lucid dreams and this is where I ask myself if these are what others mean by being in a spirit realm. To me they are just fun little adventures.

What do you think happened that 11th year???

I remembered how to do something most humans have forgotten how to do?

originally posted by: daskakik

All I did was point out the similarity between that verse and your argument "If you don't love god, you hate him".

Fair Enough... not worth hashing it out any longer...

If you are referring to a reason as in a message being delivered or something, again mostly because I have not had any great wisdom relayed to me despite the many times it has happened.

🤔

Mostly our material realm. I've been in many lucid dreams and this is where I ask myself if these are what others mean by being in a spirit realm. To me they are just fun little adventures.

Well the one time I believe I was in the "Spirit Realm" I told you about with my brother... I think I either sat up out of my body or somehow, when he manifested in the room... somehow I was able to see into this realm or He entered into ours and somehow the two converged... IDK how to explain seeing thru walls otherwise.

I remembered how to do something most humans have forgotten how to do?

So at 11 you just remembered how to do something you had never done before.... Did this happen before or after the "Angel of God" appeared to you?

originally posted by: PaPaTaco
Well the one time I believe I was in the "Spirit Realm" I told you about with my brother... I think I either sat up out of my body or somehow, when he manifested in the room... somehow I was able to see into this realm or He entered into ours and somehow the two converged... IDK how to explain seeing thru walls otherwise.

Usually when I hear the term "Spirit Realm" I think of other worlds/places. I would say that what you experienced was here in our material realm but not confined/resticted by the material world.

So at 11 you just remembered how to do something you had never done before.... Did this happen before or after the "Angel of God" appeared to you?

It happened a couple times before the angel and the angel was during the same type of experience.

Saying I "remembered" is a figure of speech based on the idea that humans have had a veil put in place to forget past lives and/or our true nature common in some esoteric beliefs. What I meant by it is that I am sure anyone can do it.

a reply to: RoScoLaz5

"Those people who are not governed by God will be ruled by tyrants."

originally posted by: toktaylor
Matter and/or energy has always existed (in some form or another), and occasionally give rise to more complex things.
The Universe exists. The Universe has always existed in some form.
There is much waste and disorder in the Universe. Why would God carefully design hundreds of billions of galaxies if he only needed one? (We didn’t even know until recently that these other galaxies existed!) Why design entire galaxies, and then crash them into one another? Why make space so deadly for humans? Or place objects so far away that there is no hope of our ever reaching them? Why pelt random moons and planets with space-debris? Is there a reason for this kind of design? Is it intelligent? Or is it random? Nature’s behavior is wasteful, unguided, indifferent, and lacks the thoughtfulness one would expect from an intelligent designer.

No we have not.

Matter and energy have not always existed. You have no source that can prove that.

As a mather of fact our universe had a beginning. And we have facts that prove that. What existed before our universe you have not records of nor du you have any scientific facts to present.

Our scientific insturments can only record what ever tok place after the beginning. Our scietific instruments are limited to the speed of light.

Science can only describe our universe and nothing else.... We can't see or observe anything else....

God damn fools. Dont you understand what you read......?

a reply to: spy66

We have plausible theory to describe a beginning, don’t confuse that with fact.

Our calculations invoke unknown variables and forces such as dark matter and energy.

Don’t let academia fool you into believing otherwise.

originally posted by: Grenade
We have plausible theory to describe a beginning, don’t confuse that with fact.

True, but religion has an even less plausible theory and some people go around trying to fool people into believing otherwise all the time.

originally posted by: daskakik

True, but religion has an even less plausible theory and some people go around trying to fool people into believing otherwise all the time.

Here's an interesting idea.... as far as that "Theory" goes...

Rather than sitting here and going back n forth about it...why don't you go outside and test those theories???

Nobody wants to fool anyone.... at least I don't want to... I would assue you don't want that either....

So whatever it is you currently believe when it comes to the beginning or theory of the universe/creation... Well go out there and test their Heliocentric Model....

Go try to find the curve.... If you're honest and persistent... I feel pretty confident in saying... you wont find it/one... (No Curve = No Ball Spinning Thru Space)

Then/Now you've got a whole other card to throw down on the table....

originally posted by: daskakik
True, but religion has an even less plausible theory

Intelligent design supposes that intelligent organisms came from something Intelligent. This makes much more sense than unintelligence creating intelligence. We were indoctrinated by the secularized school system to believe this mutant ape theory without actually seeing the evidence that its possible.

a reply to: daskakik

I think any and all attempts to define reality are fanciful and arrogant. The universe is still shrouded in mystery and no language has the capacity to even begin characterising or explaining it's inception nor it's mechanisms, not even mathematics. We have small pieces of the puzzle, nothing more, the entire picture is likely forever beyond our comprehension.

For the record, I'm not religious.

a reply to: cooperton

This, all day long.



I've seen attempts to frame biological systems with entropic statistical physics however i'm unconvinced, life and it's evolution appear anything but disordered.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz5
i sort of believed in god, religion, the whole deal, for a time when i was a boy. my (catholic,grammar, boys only) school made sure of that. as i grew older and saw how the world really was, those beliefs faded. now they are practically invisible.

Yes the world is seemingly Godless due to the Godlessness perpetuated in the world. Yet look into the ordered cosmos, nature, or biological organisms and it is overwhelmingly evident that it was designed. Humans have the potential to defy that design, and that's where death, disease, and so on creep into the source code

originally posted by: Grenade

I've seen attempts to frame biological systems with entropic statistical physics however i'm unconvinced, life and it's evolution appear anything but disordered.

Yeah I think if microbiology were already a well-known field during Darwin's time, he would have never formulated the theory. Our micromolecular machinery foregoes in such a precise manner that it would humble even the greatest human-made factory. The endoplasmic reticulum for example is beyond the world's best Amazon facility...it works non-stop for the entirety of the life of the cell and can replicate itself during mitosis indefinitely. Bezos would love to replicate such efficiency.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz5
i sort of believed in god, religion, the whole deal, for a time when i was a boy. my (catholic,grammar, boys only) school made sure of that. as i grew older and saw how the world really was, those beliefs faded. now they are practically invisible.

I tell people that I was raised a Catholic, so naturally I'm an atheist.

Although "atheist" doesn't quite describe it. More like, it's not that I don't believe in "God," I just really don't know what people are talking about when they use that word. I can't be expected to believe in something that is undefinable, right? How can I believe in ------------------------------- ?

a reply to: Blue Shift

I'm not sure that makes you an atheist.

If you don't mind me asking i could probably categorise your philosophical belief for you better if you answer the following questions.

- Do you believe the universe was intelligently designed?
- Do you think nature is totally random and a result of chance?
- Do you think consciousness is lost on death?
- Do you think there could be dimensions and realms beyond our detection, measurement and observation?

originally posted by: cooperton
Intelligent design supposes that intelligent organisms came from something Intelligent. This makes much more sense than unintelligence creating intelligence.

That is just your opinion. You have not and apparently can't prove it beyond that.

Be content in your belief and stop trying to force it on others.

a reply to: Grenade
Some people are still trying to figure it out, empirically.

They may never get there but the other side isn't any closer either.

a reply to: PaPaTaco
During a few of my OBE experiences I have seen the earth from space and did see a sphere. I know this isn't proof for anyone else but it is to me. What else am I supposed to do with that?

Then I see videos of people launching go-pros up on rockets and balloons and they match what I saw. You have nothing to counter that.