It's ILLOGICAL to think God didn't Create the Universe

originally posted by: toktaylor

Just look at it this way , there’s no evidence for any god at all. There will always be far more variables required for an invisible, intelligent, eternal God to create something, than for that thing to have just always existed, in some form, on its own.

This is like saying its more likely that an Apple Computer came to be through random chance than through intelligent input. Biological creatures are even more complex than computers though. So it's even sillier to think biological organisms came to be without logical input. You can believe whatever you want, but just know that unintelligent design is remarkably less likely than intelligent design in the making of cosmological structures and biological creatures.



Bacteriarhodopsin for example is essentially a solar cell present in rudimentary bacteria capable of generating energy from light. So how does a micromolecular solar-panel-like protein manifest in a bacteria by random chance? It doesn't. The amount of engineering that is required to make a solar cell, especially on the micromolecular level, is far beyond the capabilities of random chance screwing around with the genetic code. Bacteriarhodopsin is about 750 DNA monomers long, meaning you would need 750 "random mutations" to occur althewhile sequestering the useless gene code while you wait for the entirety of the mutant accident to be complete, hoping that somewhere along the line it doesn't turn into a carcinogenic mess of a gene sequence.

To make bacteriarhodopsin is one thing, but then you also need to have special allocators that put it in the correct position in the cell and link it with modulators to allow it to be expressed properly. Not only that, but without being coupled to ATP synthase it's useless. ATP synthase has multiple subunits, one of which is over 8800 nucleotide sequences long, which are all specifically sequenced to allow it to act like a motor. This does not happen by random chance

Well if you look at it from the point that The God is The Universe itself or some force, it makes sense. Time was a relative thing during the Big Bang, so you could easily say The Universe was created in a day and so on. Probably we will never know the truth since we cannot see what happened and how it happened. We can only guess.

originally posted by: cooperton
This does not happen by random chance

Yes it does.

Mix random chance with billions of chances and anything is possible...literally.

The beauty of the universe does not require the limitations of a human mind, nor a human construct, like a god.

originally posted by: peck420

Mix random chance with billions of chances and anything is possible

If that's true then the existence of an omnipotent God is included in those infinite possibilites

Which then makes you realize it was God the whole time. But he didn't have to use some trash random mutation algorithm to make it lol

Imagination aside, there is no scientific evidence that life can arise from non-life through random chance, or any evidence that a population of organisms can change into a distinctly new organism. It's faith, not science. Faith in literal meaninglessness nonetheless.

a reply to: PaPaTaco
I'm sure you don't mean it but it is there. It doesn't bother me but it influences the dynamic of the conversation.

I wouldn't call it being a jerk, mostly because I know the intention is good, but it often is a situation where one person feels they know something that the other person has never seen or been exposed to and if they would just take a gander with a half open mind they will have an epiphany. A lot of people know what you know and still don't feel the way you do.

As for churches, as a child my family was catholic (easter/christmas christians at this point) and then my sister and I started going to a baptist church that bused inner city kids. We attended a lutheran church for a while until my parents settled on a non-denominational evangelical church.

originally posted by: cooperton
If that's true then the existence of an omnipotent God is included in those

Which then makes you realize it was God the whole time. But he didn't have to use some trash random mutation algorithm to make it lol.

So now something from nothing is fine as long as the result is your sky daddy?

originally posted by: daskakik

So now something from nothing is fine as long as the result is your sky daddy?

No I was showing that even using his wild imagination scenario that it still renders true that an omnipotent God exists. It's unavoidable. Unless you are stubbornly illogical and suppose that logic was not required to make logical beings. But the obvious answer is that we logical beings come from something logical.

Biological creatures are called such because they have a vast amount of logical structures and reactions perpetuating at all times. It is the opposite of illogical. Why are you so hellbent on trying to prove an illogical theory?

originally posted by: cooperton
No I was showing that even using his wild imagination scenario that it still renders true that an omnipotent God exists. It's unavoidable. Unless you are stubbornly illogical and suppose that logic was not required to make logical beings. But the obvious answer is that we logical beings come from something logical.

You don't see it do you?

Using his wild imagination scenario, you said it still renders an omnipotent God, which would be a logical being springing up without the need for another logical being to create it.

originally posted by: daskakik

You don't see it do you?

Using his wild imagination scenario, you said it still renders an omnipotent God, which would be a logical being springing up without the need for a logical being to create it.

Yes exactly

Which is why evolution is such a silly idea.

Intelligence doesn't come to be unless a logical being creates it.

originally posted by: cooperton
Intelligence doesn't come to be unless a logical being creates it.

So that omnipotent God that sprung up using his wild imagination scenario isn't intelligent?

originally posted by: daskakik

So that omnipotent God that sprung up using his wild imagination scenario isn't intelligent?

His imagination scenario didn't include any laws of physics. It was an irrelevant scenario because that's not the way this world works.

Notice how you have to convolute simple logic just to avoid admitting that logic doesn't come to be illogically?

Just make sure you keep looking for answers without any bias. If what I have said so far doesn't get through then I've said all I can. I hope you the best.

originally posted by: cooperton
Notice how you have to convolute simple logic just to avoid admitting that logic doesn't come to be illogically?

I'm not convoluting anything. They said given enough tries and time anything is possible. You said that includes an omnipotent god. That means an intelligent being without the need for an intelligent being to create them.

It ain't that hard to follow.

So which is it?

originally posted by: daskakik
I'm not convoluting anything. They said given enough tries and time anything is possible. You said that includes an omnipotent god. That means an intelligent being without the need for an intelligent being to create them.

It ain't that hard to follow.

So which is it?

1) his pre-conditions are not true or applicable to the real world. The world does not allow anything to be possible over time. There are laws and conditions that prevent certain things from happening.

2) I assumed, for the sake of the imaginary game he was playing, that literally anything was possible over time (although this is not true, I was doing it for the sake of the exercise). I noted that this hypothetical world of infinite possibilities would also include the existence of an omnipotent God. This has nothing to do with the reality of point 1, I am merely playing in the bounds of his imaginary game in which an omnipotent God also exists. Ironically enough.

originally posted by: cooperton
1) his pre-conditions are not true or applicable to the real world. The world does not allow anything to be possible over time. There are laws and conditions that prevent certain things from happening.

So you didn't really use his wild imagination scenario, so your point was moot.

ETA: Maybe it would be more accurate to say you did and then reneged when you saw it worked against your argument because you seemed to have been all in, even called it unavoidable.

a reply to: daskakik

Imaginary: if anything is possible, then this includes the possibility that an omnipotent God exists

Real life: if there are laws and limits within logical confines, then it stands true that something logical must come to be through something logical.

originally posted by: visitedbythem
My dad is a genius scientist. He has many titles in several fields. He has been summoned to the Whitehouse before. His favorite thing is math. He told me years ago, that he found evidence of intelligent design, with math.

I have a t shirt that says....

'God said: (then this complex looking equation is written) and there was light.....

When I try and think of that it just blows my mind...

originally posted by: cooperton
Imaginary: if anything is possible, then this includes the possibility that an omnipotent God exists

Real life: if there are laws and limits within logical confines, then it stands true that something logical must come to be through something logical.

And we are back to the question nobody can answer, well another one, who made god if intelligent beings can only come from intelligent beings?

According to what you posted here, god is imaginary.

Time is not linear.

It only looks that way to us so we can make sense of it in our tiny little monkey brains. There is only perpetual NOW. There is certainly no need for any kind of supernatural entity to "create" something that is already there, all the "time," as it were.

originally posted by: daskakik

And we are back to the question nobody can answer, well another one, who made god if intelligent beings can only come from intelligent beings?

Remember how they call God Alpha-Omega? God encompasses the entirety of time, and has no end or beginning. Since God has no beginning, this means that God never was created. God always existed, and it is from this always-existent Logical Being that all things come from. This is tough for us temporal-minded beings to grasp, but God is transcendent above the time that we are limited to.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: visitedbythem

He is correct here is just one example

That was awesome! Thank you for posting that video truly....

My mind just expanded..