Corona Virus Updates Part 6

No Evidence That Hydroxychloroquinine Works for Covid-19

Actual title of paper: "No evidence of clinical efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in patients hospitalized for COVID-19 infection with oxygen requirement: results of a study using routinely collected data to emulate a target trial"


Abstract:

Background Treatments are urgently needed to prevent respiratory failure and deaths from coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) has received worldwide attention because of positive results from small studies. Methods We used data collected from routine care of all adults in 4 French hospitals with documented SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia and requiring oxygen ≥ 2 L/min to emulate a target trial aimed at assessing the effectiveness of HCQ at 600 mg/day. The composite primary endpoint was transfer to intensive care unit (ICU) within 7 days from inclusion and/or death from any cause. Analyses were adjusted for confounding factors by inverse probability of treatment weighting. Results This study included 181 patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia; 84 received HCQ within 48 hours of admission (HCQ group) and 97 did not (no-HCQ group). Initial severity was well balanced between the groups. In the weighted analysis, 20.2% patients in the HCQ group were transferred to the ICU or died within 7 days vs 22.1% in the no-HCQ group (16 vs 21 events, relative risk [RR] 0.91, 95% CI 0.47-1.80). In the HCQ group, 2.8% of the patients died within 7 days vs 4.6% in the no-HCQ group (3 vs 4 events, RR 0.61, 95% CI 0.13-2.89), and 27.4% and 24.1%, respectively, developed acute respiratory distress syndrome within 7 days (24 vs 23 events, RR 1.14, 95% CI 0.65-2.00). Eight patients receiving HCQ (9.5%) experienced electrocardiogram modifications requiring HCQ discontinuation. Interpretation These results do not support the use of HCQ in patients hospitalised for documented SARS-CoV-2-positive hypoxic pneumonia

TRANSLATION

Preprint paper (under review, but paper released because they felt it contained important data.)

* Study of patients in 4 French hospitals
* All patients were in the (my terms) "failing lungs" stage of Covid-19
* Used Hydroxychloroquine on about half the patients
* Looked for end result: within 7 days did they either a) die or b) get transferred out of ICU
* RESULTS: There was no difference in the outcome for people who were treated with Hydroxychloroquine and those not treated with it.

Conclusion: Drug isn't effective.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: Byrd
There's not much followup on that, and it was associated with pink eye type symptoms. I think that it might (under very unusual conditions) be found in the eye and even infect the eye, but I don't think that it's transmitted that way.

More research might clarify that, but even if it's just pink eye resulting from the viral infection at first, think about people rubbing their eyes and then with the virus on their fingers touching their nose and or mouth. So it may not stay isolated as pink eye even if it starts that way. There may be other routes to pass from the eye to the respiratory system too.

But I agree research is still scarce at this point and some indications are not yet conclusive.

I would be somewhat less concerned about a viral pathway from the eyes to the respiratory system than I would about the virus following the optic nerves directly to the brain. I have read papers about this possibility.

originally posted by: Byrd
The CDC is using estimated numbers. It says so in the link. The link I posted used LABORATORY CONFIRMED NUMBERS. They're different. If we used suspected cases of Covid-19 you would see the numbers far higher.

Lab confirmed. You're talking about those highly unreliable tests we've all been discussing for months... right?

'Nuff said...

originally posted by: StevieSFV
Virology 101: Test negative today. Test positive later today. These digital-markers and trackers are essentially worthless and yet another money-grab by mickey-mouse tech-companies.

I am looking at this from a different angle. Suppose that this virus NEVER completely becomes disabled in the body. Suppose when it becomes active, it is also infectious. Wouldn't a more practical use of such markers and trackers be to keep tabs on those people who have become infected and are now permanently intermittent carriers and sources of infection? Sorry, but it just doesn't make sense to me to mark and track people who are "cured" and no longer a danger to others.

Speculation, yes. But plausible until proven not plausible.

My gut feeling along about this has been to take every and all practical steps you can to NOT catch this virus. Pretend this is HIV+ on wings.

IMHO.

BTW, my own county is up to 12 confirmed cases and 1 death right now. The interesting thing is that not only county wide, but the entire state of Florida with 21,367 confirmed cases, doesn't show anyone as being "recovered". I'm wondering if this might be much more truthful than they intended to show.

a reply to: Byrd

Hey Byrd wonder what happened with the Hydroxychloroquine being
used as an ionophore for the Zinc. The Zinc was the key factor in destroying
the virus? Sorry if I missed an update on that. Thanks
Cheers
Ektar

originally posted by: Byrd
Actual title of paper: "No evidence of clinical efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in patients hospitalized for COVID-19 infection with oxygen requirement: results of a study using routinely collected data to emulate a target trial"

...

Conclusion: Drug isn't effective.

Did they include the actual component of the therapy that is actually what inhibits the virus?

You know... the Zinc?

No?

Conclusion: this study is not only worthless wrt deciding on the efficacy of the treatment in question, it was deliberately sabotaged by those who want to maintain their positions of power - those in the medical mafia.

Respiratory therapist with coronavirus gives birth to a daughter while in a medically induced coma

Angela Primachenko was 27 years old, 34 weeks pregnant, and days into a fight against the coronavirus when she made the decision, with the advice of her doctors, to go into a medically induced coma. When she woke up, her belly was flat and her baby was 5 days old. "That was emotionally unbelievable," she told CNN. "It was just crazy to have to try to understand what happened the last 10 days, having to puzzle back together your life."

www.cnn.com... 4-14T17%3A40%3A08

originally posted by: CrazeeWorld777
a reply to: MrRCflying

But has it kept the death totals down? Look at NYC for example or Italy, Spain??

I believe Boris et all have been deliberately keeping the deaths in old people's homes and such away from the daily total because it would take us closer if not over the 20,000 they expected. They don't want to lose face given Italy and Spain for two, warned us well before he brought out the lockdown we would have higher figures than them.
Also since friday they (sky news) have been playing more on the total deaths rather than the death total overnight...

Rainbows
Jane

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
If covid-19 worked like other corona viruses, in the respect the quote below states, there wouldn't be much reason for concern about re-infection of recently infected patients who tested negative:

The one caveat to my entire position is the possibility of this being some kind of genetically engineered monstrosity - if it is, and has some kind of secondary/follow-on payload(s) that we have yet to see, then all bets are off.

I still think that proper supplementation would go a long way to increasing your chances of survival, but hey - when it comes to the purely evil genius of mankind, anything is possible.

What worries me is that if this actually is a designed biological weapon, perhaps the design criteria took into account exactly how governments of the world are now reacting to this initial infection. Meaning there could be a time release component embedded that would "go off" knowing that the governments would be chomping at the bit to make the "all clear" call so they could try to recover their economies. IF this was designed, at this point, we haven't a clue about what the ultimate goal was in that design. But, IMHO, I believe that SOMEONE knows, and my guess is that this someone, if still alive, is in China.

a reply to: Byrd

I dunno, their conclusion was 'ineffective', but IMHO for the cost of the drug plus less than 10% having adverse echocardiographic effects causing discontinuation, the ~2% gain was 'worth it', both cost-wise, and when ~2% of a larger population is considered, ~2% improved results can translate into thousands of patients.

In summary for me: Chloroquine (a quite inexpensive drug)? Go for it, and if you can add zinc, even better!

This is all the evidence I needed, straight from their numbers:

"20.2% patients in the HCQ group were transferred to the ICU or died within 7 days vs 22.1% in the no-HCQ group (16 vs 21 events, relative risk [RR] 0.91, 95% CI 0.47-1.80). "

originally posted by: Rich Z
What worries me is that if this actually is a designed biological weapon, perhaps the design criteria took into account exactly how governments of the world are now reacting to this initial infection. Meaning there could be a time release component embedded that would "go off" knowing that the governments would be chomping at the bit to make the "all clear" call so they could try to recover their economies. IF this was designed, at this point, we haven't a clue about what the ultimate goal was in that design. But, IMHO, I believe that SOMEONE knows, and my guess is that this someone, if still alive, is in China.

I'm not sure I'm ready to believe they have anywhere near that level of control of a genetically engineered organism.

Regardless, the only thing I'm sure of, is the only real solution to this and future events is reclaiming our sovereignty over our own bodies, and doing what is required to achieve vital health, especially wrt our immune systems.

I was telling a coworker this morning about a former coworker that has COVID 19 being treated with hydroychloroquine. He is responding favorably.
She said, "Oh, that is good. I agree with it being administered under a doctor's care."
I asked her how you can use it any other way, since it is a prescription drug.
She said, "Oh, I heard on the news that people were being killed and blinded by it because they medicated themselves."
I told her that the one guy that died had used an aquarium chemical. Then I told her that the news stories about people 'hoarding' the medication were likewise false. It is hard to hoard a prescription drug.
She said that she never thought of that.
It is so easy for the news media to lead people astray.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Tanstaafl,
I do owe you an apology. You were correct, it was not you I was thinking of, it was another user called Dumbass.

I am sorry that I got the two of you confused, and attributed something he said to you.

a reply to: tanstaafl

 In the HCQ group, 2.8% of the patients died within 7 days vs 4.6% in the no-HCQ group

Isn't 2.8% death rate better than 4.6%?, My math is fuzzy, help me out.


Guess a +60% chance of survival when you are at death's doorstep isn't enough.

And as you said, they don't mention Zinc or Zpacks.

Holy surge in New Jersey!

Yesterday: 2,734 infections and 93 deaths

Today: 4,240 infections and 362 deaths

Is that true numbers, or did they only get a partial count in yesterday?

NJ

originally posted by: primalfractal

  In a case series of 214 patients with coronavirus disease 2019, neurologic symptoms were seen in 36.4% of patients and were more common in patients with severe infection (45.5%) according to their respiratory status, which included acute cerebrovascular events, impaired consciousness, and muscle injury.

jamanetwork.com...

Coronavirus patients report strange new symptom: ‘Fizzing’

Add this to the growing list of the coronavirus‘ awful toll on victims: a symptom that produces a strange buzzing sensation throughout their body.

nypost.com...

111 in S. Korea test positive after negative tests

english.kyodonews.net...

14% rate of reinfection was mentioned by the Chinese, wonder if it is actually higher like their other numbers, wouldn't surprise me.

SARS-CoV-2 starts replicating in the throat, not the lungs. For that reason, a simple throat swab is enough to test for the virus. There’s probably no need for an intrusive, unpleasant nasal swab. 

The virus mostly spreads from people coughing on each other. It’s a lot less likely that you’ll catch the coronavirus by touching the same touchpad or toilet handle as an infected person.

www.thedailybeast.com...

The antibodies our bodies produce in response to COVID-19 infection don’t actually destroy this virus. In that way, it is a lot like HIV.

“When aligned to viral load courses, it seems there is no abrupt virus elimination at the time of seroconversion,” the scientists wrote. “Rather, seroconversion early in week two coincides with a slow but steady decline of sputum viral load.”

“This means that the antibodies are not effective at clearing the virus,” Ostrov told The Daily Beast. “This is relevant when thinking about viruses and vaccines. HIV also stimulates production of antibodies that fail to clear the virus, as do many other viruses, such as hepatitis virus C.”

“People have tried and failed to generate vaccines against such viruses, so we should not be overconfident that a vaccine strategy will work,” Ostrov added.

www.thedailybeast.com...

Virological assessment of hospitalized patients with COVID-2019

www.nature.com...

Like to thank the people in the other thread elsewhere for these pages, can't link

Yeah, and hence the reason, IMHO, that certain people are hot to have people who have been infected marked and tracked. It is NOT about marking the people who have been "cured", it is about marking those people who are confirmed as carrying the virus now permanently embedded within their bodies.

Again, IMHO.

originally posted by: MrRCflying
a reply to: tanstaafl

Tanstaafl,
I do owe you an apology. You were correct, it was not you I was thinking of, it was another user called Dumbass.

I am sorry that I got the two of you confused, and attributed something he said to you.

Thank you. I know it's easy to mix up one poster for another, happened to me more than once.

No worries...

Note: people who say obviously dumbass things like that I just ignore for the obvious dumbasses they are...

originally posted by: MrRCflying
Holy surge in New Jersey!

Yesterday: 2,734 infections and 93 deaths

Today: 4,240 infections and 362 deaths

Is that true numbers, or did they only get a partial count in yesterday?

NJ

That is quite a jump. Could be that they've now added in cases from nursing homes? Tuesdays tend to have jumps more than any other day so that may be a bit of it. Or they are going to start looking like more like NYC. We'll see how it goes over the next few days. I'm off to google to see if there's something about it.

New Jersey Grapples with Surge in Cases as Deaths Mount in Veterans’ and Nursing Homes

In New Jersey, Governor Phil Murphy warned cases were still surging and the state faced a severe shortage of tests. Nearly 2,500 COVID-19 deaths and 65,000 infections have been reported in New Jersey. The National Guard has been deployed to a veterans’ home in Paramus, New Jersey, where 37 deaths in recent weeks are believed to be caused by COVID-19. A state-run nursing home in Menlo Park, New Jersey, has reported at least 14 deaths.

www.democracynow.org...