Corona Virus Updates Part 4

Yesterday I went shopping at Whole Foods. I shop there once a week for fruit and vegetables. It was the oddest experience. There were crews there scrubbing down shelves and separate crews scrubbing the trash cans that are around the store. I have never seen crews working during the day, especially on a Friday which is typically very busy.

Food was piled in grocery carts and the entire place seemed rather empty of crowds. Then it struck me that the majority of shoppers there were personal shoppers. They had lists from customers and they were shopping for them and then delivering it!
We need to watch behavior and not just what is said. There are people in the know and they have no intention of exposing themselves or taking unnecessary risks.
Grocery stores are a really easy place to pick up some illness.
One woman was so ill that she was kneeling on the floor and holding onto a shelf for support at the local King Soopers. That is not normal.

a reply to: ketsuko

Look at Wuhan, they had over 11 million people there. Even a tiny percentage of that number looks like a whole pile of bodies, but when you shut everything and everyone down to try to stop everyone from getting sick, it causes widespread social and economic disruption. 

Any way you slice it, 2,000 plus deaths in any city due to a NEW virus is a lot of bodies. This isn't counting the critically sick and or the mild sick. There are small towns with less than 2,000 people around here. This isn't the flu. This is a NEW virus to add to the old viruses of the world. I think that trying to justify the unimportance of such an event by comparing the numbers of people is quite unsettling. It is trying to justify and down play the importance of how it is actually affecting lives.

*That's* the big problem.

Now we are shifting away from isolating people to contain the spread, to blaming the lockdowns and quarantines as the reason for all of the madness? While it is a factor, we will not know how it all would have played out otherwise. What we should have people show up for work that are sick and can barely function and to possibly spread it worse? How much work can a highly sickened population do? I mean after all we won't know how it all would have panned out if they didnt shut Wuhan off. It was bad enough to take the measures that they have taken. I really doubt that China would risk complete social and economic collapse over something that wasn't a big deal, bigger than some a saying anyways. There were talks of leadership and regime failure a while back. Why would they risk such over all doubt of the ability of their regime with a shut down just to prove a point. Again I am not saying you said this, but this is some peoples sentiment.

I am not trying to start an argument. I am attempting to engage in thought on how serious this matter is and for people to say it should have been done different just because of the flow of commerce and money is pretty disingenuous. I am not saying this is exactly what you are saying ket, but this sentiment is being displayed here on ATS.

I believe that the problem evolved after the Chinese tried to downplay the situation for too long and didn't take measures to contain it earlier.

I notice on some of my previous, recent, posts to certain posters asking the serious questions that nobody wants to answer are going unanswered. It tells me the the "doubter crowd" really does not want to engage in dialogue to get to the bottom of the situation. Some peoples confidence could be the catalyst that causes a more serious situation to unravel.

People seem to have opinions on the matter and are capable of placing blame, but when confronted with genuine questions about the validity of the situation at home and abroad, it goes unnoticed and completely ignored.

originally posted by: saladfingers123456
With all things, it is probably always wise to have a sense of proportion. What I mean by this is, take a look at this site, and look at the stats...
www.worldometers.info...

Corona and flu deaths combined = about 80,000 people a year.
The world population TODAY alone increased by 238,379.

So all of those dead people (most with probably underlying conditions) were replaced in the last 12 hours.

For a virus to seriously threaten the population of the planet at this point would need to be insanely successful.
As much as the info coming out about COVID19 seems serious, I'm very unsure at this point if it is even a contender.

It is an important thing to get your head around. Relativity.I have this in my head, and even then I am still susceptible.
So this is just a little reminder.

It's comforting to know that if I die today, I will be easily replaced by a hoard of newbs in the world. LOL.

a reply to: liejunkie01

And?

What do you want us to do?

We wait and when it comes through you stay home as much as you can. That's it.

It's all you can do.

Panicking serves no one.

I know no one likes that answer because it feels powerless, but essentially we are against viruses. We pretty much always have been. There is no magic bullet. You understand that we all have to ride it out and that means most of us will likely catch it and have to get through it. While that happens, we do what we can to slow that pace enough that those who get seriously ill can get the medical help they need. The rest of us just need to care for ourselves.

Harsh, but true.

a reply to: liejunkie01

Already proven all numbers out of Wuhan are underreported by at least 20 times and could be up to 50 times.

So a little math shows...

1 million to 5 million infected

20,000 to 50,000 dead

Just in Wuhan.

30some crematoriums don’t work 24/7 without stopping for 2000 bodies. That’s proven by Epoch Times by calling Them on phone and recording it.

originally posted by: fleabit

Yes, my strong rebuttal of all this was generated by my belief that there are agents from various agencies including the military that are pushing the fear mongering panic.

What panic? What has been said that was untrue? Do you actually buy into the ludicrous Trump and Trump Jr. theory that people in the government are trying to make look Trump bad by their response to this virus? Reality is that the Trump administration -did- fumble on this. They didn't replace those who were fired or quit, who were in key positions to help prepare for an epidemic / pandemic. The press conference was laughably bad. And remember.. stocks are great!!

Trump's narcissism is going to actually hinder this countries ability to prepare for this virus outbreak. So while your opinion is interesting, I think it's just dead wrong.

#1. As has been stated numerous times here, this is not a political thread. This is not the mud pit.

#2. You are highly misinformed and reacting to false information about the response fed to you by those with an agenda related to anything BUT fighting the coronavirus. So I would advise you to stop right there, do some research, and wake up.

#3. The response to this virus has been to ban all travel to and from China in the early stages so that they could better control the outbreak; to quarantine all who have been confirmed to have been infected, are suspected to be infected, or who have recently come back from the region so that they don't infect the public; and to increase funding and manpower to implement strategies and testing and to fast track an effort to produce a vaccine against the virus.

The deaths and most seriously affected thus far have been in China and surrounding regions. The United States have around 65 cases with only 14 thus far having been what I would call having come directly from exposure to someone who had come from China or recently travelled there. 4 more are of mysterious origin. The other contingent are from the Diamond Princess cruise ship which is a different ball of wax altogether. There have been no deaths.

The U.S. government is doing just fine right now with its response.

originally posted by: SpartanStoic
a reply to: liejunkie01

Already proven all numbers out of Wuhan are underreported by at least 20 times and could be up to 50 times.

So a little math shows...

1 million to 5 million infected

20,000 to 50,000 dead

Just in Wuhan.

30some crematoriums don’t work 24/7 without stopping for 2000 bodies. That’s proven by Epoch Times by calling Them on phone and recording it.

That is what I have been thinking all along. If the city was used to massive amounts of people dying annually, then a "flu like virus" could have been handled as normalcy.

But instead China basically shut down and now we have people saying we are panicking by questioning the narrative.

Obviously to some of us it isn't adding up, no matter what blame is being pushed around.

Only time will tell how thus is gonna land out. I hope for the love of my children that it is being overblown.

originally posted by: asdfa
Whataboutisms using the regular flu are exactly that, whataboutisms. It's a way for people who are unable to see future trends to calm themselves and others. The same people that employ this whataboutism are unable to grasp the concept that there are more than two courses of action on the eve of a global pandemic. They think their only options are to either panic, or stick their heads in the sand. They are unable to see the 3rd option, which is calmly prepare for what seems inevitable when analyzing the trends.

There are over 100 viruses and bacteria infecting people worldwide right now. We have been undergoing waves of epidemics without anyone realizing because the media doesn't cover it from this angle.

Yes prepare for disease. That's obvious and critical.

But if you learn more information you won't be afraid of disease anymore.

The true concerns here are the panicked population and the govt mishandling everything.

a reply to: Agit8dChop

bnonews.com...

There are currently 85,712 confirmed cases worldwide, including 2,933 fatalities.

I also headed over to Walmart to pick up some last minute items. I could not find any rice at Costco because they were all sold out.
Walmart also was out of stock of large bags of rice.
When I was checking out I had an interesting conversation with the cashier. He asked why anyone would want to stockpile canned goods and frozen fruit and vegetables because there would not be any supply chain problems because it is grown here and processed here.
Not everything is made and processed here but he had a point.
So I asked him what happens if there is a quarantine and people cannot get to work or shop for food?

He said"That is not going to happen."

Heading over to Best Buy the lithium ion batteries were pretty well sold out and the staff said they didn't know when more would arrive.

These are just some of my observations but in every single case people were very aware of the dangers of the corona virus and everyone, and I mean everyone said that this is not the flu and did not believe what they were being told in the media.

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Just got back from Sam's Club to pick up paper items. Paper towels and TP mostly. I did pick up a little food, but we are stocked for 6+ months at this point.

They did not seem to be low on anything, and I did not see any panic shopping. There were quite a few people picking up TP though. Not sure if it is more than usual or not.

Other than that, things seemed kind of normal.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Halfswede

Statistics also show that for about 81%+ of cases, you're going to get mild to moderate illness meaning you'll experience a cold or flu-like illness.

For almost everyone under a certain age or not suffering from certain health conditions, your chances of only experiencing that mild to moderate illness very good. Your chances of death are under 1%.

It's when you start to age above 60 into your 70s and 80s and you start to add in things like cardiovascular disease, hypertension, chronic lung disease, diabetes and similar that your chances of experiencing serious complications from this thing start shooting up enough to counterbalance and make the death rate go up.

Yes a common cold can kill elderly or medically unstable patients.

Always has, always will.
Every cold virus poses this risk.

Basic fact of life.

Your "less than 1%" figure is completely accurate.

Do we have the ages and Medical histories of those 6 ppl? Oh yeah privacy laws, ugh.

I'm against privacy laws on all medical info cuz I have a right to know about diseases, who has them, their susceptibility ratings, etc.

It's ridiculous the infected can hide their conditions and willfully spread it all cuz of "privacy".

The SCOTUS needs to overturn these laws.

The "rest of the World" cases increased by almost 2,000 cases today on covid19info.live...

highest jump yet

a reply to: Thoughtful1

The day I take pandemic advice from Walmart cashiers....