Missouri Returning to Reason - Rolling back minimum wage

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I know.

These artificial wage hikes just end up punishing people who make more.

They actually take food away from my family, but they appear to justify it fine.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: burdman30ott6

If you say so, there was a reason a min wage was put into law.

If there were no min law, we would see abuses grow. The stagnant pay that Americans have been experiencing since the mid 1970's is no mistake. And that wealth going in one direction isn't a mistake either.

You are arguing with a brick wall. A right wing /pol/ typical. Think's that everyone should be Gordan Gekko.

a reply to: strongfp


That is a fine point as well. I have yet to go into a big corp that doesn't have their corp philosophy engraved in stone, you know Family-community-Freedom. Then talk to the temps that have been there for years or the lucky full time workers.

It is usually a stark difference.

a reply to: strongfp

That's OK. I have worked for myself, a drill Sargent, and many large corps. Every one of them (except me) had one thing in common, they loved my work, and when I moved to greener pastures-they always threw money at me as I was walking out the door.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Name one country with a free market economy.

Just like communism, looks doable on paper but never works out in the real world.

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: burdman30ott6

One can still be poor while taking personal responsibility for themselves. Look at Walmart, they employ 1% of the US and in many rural areas can employ as much as 50% of the community. Yet their employees almost all require further assistance beyond what they're paid.

Take a second job.

Forget personal life... that's over rated, no one should have personal time or enjoy life. people should work hard and work hard non stop till they themselves are the overlords screwing others below them to work minimum wage and two jobs.

Capitalism ya!!!

Far, far better to point at someone making more than you and demand a cut of their earnings, ya? Let me ask you this, and yeah, I'm gonna sound like a real asshole here and that's because I am one. I find it fascinating that you're playing the personal life card here. You are abdicating people of personal responsibility, advocating taking from the productive to give to the nonproductive so that the nonproductives can enjoy a personal time in their daily lives? What the actual fudge!?!?! I work to earn money SO THAT I CAN ENJOY MY LIFE AND PERSONAL TIME. Someone else's abundance or total lack of personal time is not something I should have to budget for. I work a sallaried professional job. If I work 40 hours, I get paid for 40 hours... if I work 80 hours, I get paid for 40 hours. I have had deadlines that had me running 90+ hours a week. Why did I do this? Because I have responsibilities and I am a man. I don't have time for excuses, I don't have my hands in anyone else's pockets, and I do what I need to do to provide for me and for my own (a category which, when I use the term, means myself plus 3... no others.) Johnny Walmart's lack of a personal life doesn't matter to me. He can figure out how to make it work for himself or not, his life, his choice, his responsibility.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: DBCowboy

In reality, NONE of us making over the new minimum wage will see an increase that will see us with the same buying power we had before the increase. For that to happen, you'd be looking at percentages, not dollars. Say the min goes from $10 an hour to $11 an hour. That's a 10% increase for the minimum wage worker. Now take a manager who was making $20 an hour, and give him the same $1 an hour increase... he just got a 5% raise, but the 10% increase for the minimum wage worker will ensure the cost of living in the area increases by around 10%, meaning your manager just got an effective decrease in salary.

Your not supposed to. The point is to shrink the wealth gap. If it were proportional it wouldn't shrink.

Why is the US so big geographically? The poor in urban east coast could not find jobs and expanded out westward. Was it difficult...of course! They took on the responsibility for themselves for a better living. It was hard and difficult...most survived and overcomed. The westward travel was not simply gambling gold rush fever. Individuals taking responsibility for their family and then immediate family is what made America great! The quick riches dream gold towns quickly became ghost towns!

It was individuals, desperate, innovative, and taking responsibility that joined America as a whole Union.

Currently, communities should have the individual right to set wages. This is done not by government but by the people. If you don't like it...move on. Easier today than in our past. Companies who cannot go global and hire outside the nation or find it more expensive will adjust their rates of pay accordingly.

Government should not have any say in what an employer pays. No one is forced to work for them...

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Name one country with a free market economy.

Just like communism, looks doable on paper but never works out in the real world.

Show me a country with a limited government. Like I said multiple times, the first step is to actually keep the bastards' hands out of the pie.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Aazadan

Yeah, life's a real bitch sometimes, especially when you're the one responsible for you.

So you want to create a permanent underclass who can never escape poverty? Not a fan of social mobility I guess?

originally posted by: strongfp
You are arguing with a brick wall.

Well, that's the most accurate comment you've had in this thread.

originally posted by: Aazadan
Your not supposed to. The point is to shrink the wealth gap. If it were proportional it wouldn't shrink.

So those of us in the middle to upper middle class are supposed to support this idea that reduces our personal purchasing power for what reason exactly? Do the sunshine and farts get delivered while the gap is closing, or after it has completed it's shrinkage?

a reply to: CynConcepts

Wages? How about safety? Or length of a work day? Or ethnicity of workers?

a reply to: Aazadan

No, I want to create a world where the only ones who "escape" are the ones who escape on their own and actually earn it themselves. Something freely given is never appreciated or valued as much as something physically earned.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

There are none, exactly my point, naive idealism on your part.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Europe get's along just fine without a ultra capitalist society. In fact, France is one of the most laid back societies there is. Do you see people complaining about how the government taxes the workers to high end? No they don't because they incorporate a low hour work day, not just for low income, but for EVERYONE.

I used France as an example because they have a history of not siding with government. And will start a violent revolution at the drop of a hat. Something I think American's should take note of... well you did at once upon a time, but, the government seems to have you all at the throat after the 70's.

originally posted by: strongfp
Something I think American's should take note of... well you did at once upon a time, but, the government seems to have you all at the throat after the 70's.

Largely the result of nearly 50% of the country depending on the government for their monthly payments, vouchers, and policies in exchange for votes and only protesting targets assigned to them by the establishment.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: strongfp
You are arguing with a brick wall.

Well, that's the most accurate comment you've had in this thread.

I am not arguing. i am pointing out your flaws as an anti-progressive human being and how your views on life are that of someone who lived 120+ years ago.

What the bottom wage earners make in a company should be determined by what the top wage earners make.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: burdman30ott6

There are none, exactly my point, naive idealism on your part.

OK, let's play, shall we? Show me a person making minimum wage who has either skills that warrant a higher wage in the same job or a financial investment risk in the company warranting a higher pay grade. There are none, so don't hurt yourself searching.