Missouri Returning to Reason - Rolling back minimum wage

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
Anyone who thinks that the minimum wage should be left up to the market is either a business douche, or not very bright.

If business is left to it's own, to decide what to pay employees, they just won't pay their employees at all.

But, if they don't pay employees, then the employees can't buy food to eat, and without food, they have no fuel for energy to perform work.

All that happens if you remove minimum wage, is that the prices of all goods and services eventually fall over time.

At the end of the day, people buy things, and if they can't buy, because they don't have the cash, then the things have to become cheaper.

Too many people earning too much is the cause of all inflation.

There was a time, not long ago, maybe in the 1920s or so, when one year of an ordinary teacher's salary could purchase a decent detached home on a 100-ft x 55-ft land lot, in a suburb of a major city. Salaries were pretty low, so everything was affordable to those who had work.

/'s

Bring back company script.

That would teach a lot of people quite a bit of knowledge.

/'s off

we need to go back to 1950 wage

like 75cents an hour

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Why do that when you can sit on your ass watching TV and collecting those welfare handouts and subsidized life off the work sweat of others like so many folk do?

This x1000!

It doesn't make any sense why people are bothering at all trying to work with the system when we could all just sit back, relax, do nothing, and live like wellfare kings (or queens)! I just get sick to my stomach thinking how easy it is for undeserving folk to live an upper middle class lifestyle off the sweat of my brow by doing nothing! Seriously, when we're throwing huge gobs of money at these people is it any surprise they don't want to pull themselves up by their bootstraps!?!

What an absolute load of horse s#*t!!

Show us one single person who lives an upper middle class lifestyle by doing nothing and relying on welfare.

I've known many, many people who have been on welfare at one time or another and I can definitively state that the only people I ever saw who did both, live a middle class lifestyle and capitalize off the welfare system on a regular basis, are those already middle class people who take advantage of alcoholic welfare recipients by purchasing their food stamps for less than .50 cents on the dollar and then use them to go and buy steaks for themselves.

And.....I've had more than one of those middle class, food stamp buying, "respectable," "deserving," "upstanding" citizens tell me that I too, should take advantage of the system and the downtrodden in this manner and then shake their head in disgust when I refuse to do so.

Go figure!!

Living on welfare is #, if it's as good as some people say it is, why aren't they living on it?

Because they know it's #, they just like #ting on the people below them.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: burdman30ott6

I make enough money that I am able to share. It's just a fact. I don't mind.

THEN FREAKING SHARE!!!! Share, share, share, share!!!! Give to whatever causes you wish to, God bless your heart. What authority does anyone have to forcibly separate anyone from their earnings to redistribute to individuals, though? It is a direct conflict of interest and tantamount to voter manipulation under the current system. You have one group that has built a Kept Voter pool, paying them the earnings of others in exchange for votes to keep that group in power. That's not sharing, it's theft and voter manipulation.

Votes in exchange for handouts to poor people by the left is a myth...mostly, every poor person I know votes red and the poorest states vote red...

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
You made an ignorant statement that somebody from poverty doesn't have an equal opportunity to succeed, and I called it horsecrap.

I believe the difference is that "anyone can succeed" is not the same as "everyone can succeed".

Why should society be forced into accomodating and providing for those who have chosen to fail, then?

You speak of living in reality but in all reality you have no ideal what reality is if you believe all of those people chose to fail...

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: DBCowboy

In reality, NONE of us making over the new minimum wage will see an increase that will see us with the same buying power we had before the increase. For that to happen, you'd be looking at percentages, not dollars. Say the min goes from $10 an hour to $11 an hour. That's a 10% increase for the minimum wage worker. Now take a manager who was making $20 an hour, and give him the same $1 an hour increase... he just got a 5% raise, but the 10% increase for the minimum wage worker will ensure the cost of living in the area increases by around 10%, meaning your manager just got an effective decrease in salary.

Then in your reality, the manager should pull up his boot straps and get a better paying job or a second job....the manager is not my responsibility

originally posted by: conscientiousobserver
a reply to: burdman30ott6

My good sir we fought for the right of representation through taxation during the revolutionary war.

You have that backwards. We fought against taxation without representation, not for taxation that created representation. That's part of the problem, actually... we have nearly 50% of the citizenry paying zero or even negative net taxes, yet they seem to enjoy better representation in DC than those of us actually paying for it all.

originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Aazadan

Do me a favor, show me the constitutional or even legal basis of this ridiculous "social contract" bullcrap that has become a buzz word over the past 10 years or so.

The Constitution IS a social contract.

Yes, yes it is... but it says nothing about the garbage you were talking about under this phantom, imaginary social contract that supposedly makes us all beholden to whatever hairbrained pandering scheme DC decides to push at any given moment.

a reply to: liammc

Didn't look like# to me watching my neighbor, who has never worked a day in his life, set off hundreds of dollars worth of fireworks on the 4th. I pay $950 a month on my house, they pay $12 a month. I pay just over $400 a month on health insurance that I can't even afford to use, theirs is free. And they both get SSI. The only thing they pay for are utilities and cell phones. How is that #?

Forgot to mention the food stamps they get.

originally posted by: Chromium51

originally posted by: Uberdoubter

originally posted by: Wayfarer
Good news! Looks like the jokers over in Missouri finally wised up and realized that giving lower class folks more money only hurts all our situations.

...

If the minimum wage was closer to say $2-$3 you bet your sweet ass we would be flooded with so many jobs our heads would spin!
...

Just curious - How many hours per week do you have to work in order to make a living on $3 per hour?
How much do YOU make per hour? Want to drop down to $3 in order to MAGA?

Didn't think so.

What if they have a marketable job skill that earns more money because it's in a specialized sector... unlike making a coffee, running a cash register, or flipping burgers? There are no jobs out there that require a skill that only pay you minimum wage

So you are saying that there are nobody who makes minimum wage, and if there are, they should blame themselves for not being born more lucky, and therefore should make do with an even lower minimum wage - in order to compete with Asian sweatshops?

I'm just saying that no job should be paid so little that it's impossible - and therefore pointless having it - to make a living from it. That kind of slavery is better left to robots and machines.

originally posted by: audubon
Guess the pols of Missouri have some other plan up their sleeve to alleviate the galloping poverty throughout their state. I'll be interested to see what it is. But I'm not holding my breath.

Selective stats man. Here, lets take a look at California:

calbudgetcenter.org...

Looks like socialism is failing to bring folk out of poverty as well. Another thing is this, you have no idea the problems that the city of Saint Louis faces. It is a far bigger problem than most cities do. The education system in the black community is a total failure...and failure is putting it lightly. It doesn't seem to matter how much money is thrown at its problems. The money gets soaked up and nothing changes. Many of us that live in the area see the welfare that began in the 1960's that is "skin adjustable" is the real problem. Your grandiose social welfare plans have destroyed families as women get a paycheck for having kids. The father does not matter, and usually the father will never even attempt any responsibility. So carry that on for several generations. Guess what happens? Mom's little angels grow up. Do you think a woman can handle multiple teenage kids with nothing to do? Do you think they feel any obligation to society or civilization? Nope, none at all.

Just think, there are now 4 generations of people that have had almost no paternal guidance or instruction. It has become a nightmare. The murder rate in the black areas of Saint Louis are sometimes once a day. Sometimes even more. That area has maybe 500,000 people. Do the math. It is all a failure. Social engineering featuring multiculturism has failed. And always will fail.



In a nutshell, Missouri is somewhat like this for being a Dem majority state in the 60's through 80's and a slight resurgence in the 1990's.

Please note the Legislature column:

en.wikipedia.org...

There is where all the laws come from. Missouri then historically has had all laws written by democrats. Democrats have driven Missouri into poverty.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

If you are having to rent then you might need to find more suitable employment to join the happy homeowners club like the rest of us. Get off your duff , change your job, get a better degree and excercise that freedom of movement all Americans inherently possess. God bless America....besides, if there were no poor people, how rich would I look then?

a reply to: Fools

I'm sure real socialists would not accept that California is part of their group.

Either way, did you notice that the legend for that poverty map of California topped off at 20 - 25 while the one for Missouri has one more for 25+. That might hinder whatever point you thought you were making.

originally posted by: Uberdoubter

I'm just saying that no job should be paid so little that it's impossible - and therefore pointless having it - to make a living from it. That kind of slavery is better left to robots and machines.

You are right...it is better to put a machine in than to pay more than what a job provides to a company, and they are doing just that.

What is impossible BTW...

Are you saying a person can not survive on 1600 per month?

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Fools

I'm sure real socialists would not accept that California is part of their group.

Either way, did you notice that the legend for that poverty map of California topped off at 20 - 25 while the one for Missouri has one more for 25+. That might hinder whatever point you thought you were making.

Doesn't hinder anything. California counties (except the mountains and desert) always have larger populations. So 27 percent poverty in a county of 5000 people is vastly different than poverty rate of 20 percent in a county of one million people. Capice?

a reply to: Jiggly

You go first....

K?...

a reply to: AMPTAH

It isn't the people who will be forced to scrape by on minimum wage who are earning too much and driving prices up.

...Now it's flopping toward the old inequality discussion, the wage disparity discussion...

What happens when the minimum wage is abolished and the workers who can't afford to buy what they have a hand in producing watch their handiwork get shipped to other countries and markets that pay more for the goods than they can?.

There is a game of musical chairs going on here that no one has lived long enough to visualize.

...And then that corporate person hood crap that protects business from having to be reasonable about what they consider to be a fair profit, paying their employees with short term paper instead of actually having some real capital in the game...

a reply to: Fools

That is the very reason why per capita and percentages are used, they were even used in what you posted.

Now you are moving the goalposts.

I just spent the last ten years of my life working my ass off, saving every penny I could, everywhere I could. In the process helped my sister raise her daughter, sending her to a private school, properly clothed, etc... Paying rent, important stuff like that. Started at minimum, didn't stay there very long, as I worked my ass off to move up the chain. When my employer and I came to a mutual parting of the ways--I quit, he fired me (long story)--but I'd succeeded in saving sufficiently to in a month or two from now, buying a tiny little farm in the mountains of either Tennessee, South Carolina, or West Virginia.

On my own hook, thank you. If I can do this, so too can anyone. In a couple of years, I'm going to be looking out my kitchen window at my little farm and I'm going to be able to say, "That's mine, and fairly earned.".

I've seen those anyone's do precisely the same thing. A guy, and his brothers, from a fallen Vietnam worked their collective butts off building their cleaning business. A gentleman in Burds neck of the woods worked for ten years on fishing boats in Alaska, he bought his own 50' fishing boat a few years back for something on the order of two million dollars--he paid it off in 4 years, while raising three kids. He has less than a high school education.

You make your own opportunities, and they're out there. If I fail, it's no ones fault but my own. It certainly won't be Burds fault. He's done, nor will he do, anything to hinder me, or anyone else. In fact, I'd be so bold as to say he'd probably be more than happy to give all sorts of advice, probably good advice.