So now flirting or asking a girl out is sexual harassment

a reply to: network dude

This is exactly what I said:

Hannity if what his accuser is saying is true

Where does it it seem that I am upset in the least, let alone SO upset?

originally posted by: veracity
It is extremely demeaning and annoying when someone who you have already made it clear that you are not interested keeps on trying and trying.

You do not want to be mean to them and then they jump on that thinking "oh, she's into me" just bc you didnt flat out say "NO".

Im not trying to brag but I get (used to get more when I was younger) advances all the time. Its sweet and flattering the first time, but to keep trying is degrading and very annoying.

I would totes go for the guy who just sits there all chill and waits for me to come to him. Even if the guy hit on me at first and I denied him...then he sits back, chill...I MAY take a second look...but NOT if he keeps on keepin on me. Its a bad quality and should be considered harrassment.

You are right to some extent...some guys don't know when to give up.

But you know what...you really should have the backbone to flat out say 'NO', if it annoys and offends you so much then make it abundantly clear.

I had a debate with a friend one time, she's quite hot and made some comment about guys looking at her. I said to her, quite frankly...you dress quite provocatively and don't seem to mind at all wen a hot guys is paying you a lot of attention, only when it's a not so hot guy.

And I got the usual...I dress like this because it makes me comfortable and I feel good!

I countered by telling her she doesn't look so comfortable in heels when she walks like one of them chicken walker machines from Return of the Jedi...don't look the least bit comfortable...and pointed out that time she had an interview and took a spare pair of flat shoes in her bag, which she immediately changed into when she left her interview.

Nor did she look comfortable that time we were out and she was bodypopping and shivering with cold because she was practically naked...it didn't go down well but it's true.

They don't dress like that for comfort, if they do then they're failing, epically. Be straight with people...say no, be rude if you have to.

You can't complain and say it annoys and offends you when you make zero effort to put a stop to it.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Taggart

originally posted by: xstealth
I feel bad for you single guys.

If you ask a girl out or flirt with one you can lose your job over it, ask Bill O'Reily.

Now Sean Hannity is being accused.

Debbie Schlussel said the married primetime anchor invited her back to his hotel in Detroit after the pair met at a book signing. After the conservative commentator turned down the father-of-two's advances, she claims she wasn't invited back on his show. Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

So the direction this is going you guys will be sued for catcalling or flirting with a woman.

I'm not going to comment on the ethics of a married man flirting with a girl since this is unproven, I want to point out the direction these allegations are going.

In my opinion sexual harassment should only be recognized in extreme cases, not when a man tries to pick you up. That's what men do. (not me, im married faithfully (in case my wife is reading)(i'm being honest though))

Workplace is a place to work, not flirt and pull women.
It's been like that in a lot of workplaces since at least the 90's.
This isn't new, I'm sure it's been like that in a corporation like FOX for at least that long too.
Employers also try stop that practice so if the two employees fall out it doesn't carry on in to the workplace.

According to studies most marriages the couple meet either in college or at work. Most work places have the rule you cant be a supervisor over someone you're dating. This situation with him is actually similar to how the wife and i met. I was a college professor hired by her law firm to go over a case. It was about science involving force and i had to teach a class in court. She asked me out at a pre trial meeting.

That's the thing, you have millions of people meeting romantically at the work place and not millions of sexual harassment claims.

The reasonable take away should be this: Some people are sleazy predators and some people are sleazy liars, most of the rest of us know how to get it on just fine despite them.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
And I got the usual...I dress like this because it makes me comfortable and I feel good!

That is one of the MOST blatant lies imaginable when it comes to this type of conversation. I seriously cannot believe any woman on the planet can say such a thing, in a serious tone, and not start to laugh when they hear their own voice saying those words.

I have always wondered: if tomorrow every single man on earth were to disappear and let's say 3 weeks passed, would these women dress exactly the same way to makes themselves "feel good, feel comfortable and feel confident"?

I am not saying that women cannot do something like "have their hair done" or "put make up on" or "give themselves a makeover" without the intent being to impress a man, but really...dressing with your T&A exposed to the best of their ability without anything else being emphasised anywhere else on their body? Are we meant to take that seriously?

originally posted by: Dark Ghost

originally posted by: veracity
I would say that any unwanted advances is sexual harrassment. Ask once then back off jerks.

You mean like the time my female manager touched my arm while laughing about how funny I was for telling a joke about my interaction with a difficult customer the day before when she was off? And then told her own joke about a past memory of her interaction with a difficult customer the week before when I as off, and touching my arm a second time?

Would that warrant "sexual harassment"? Was my silence regarded as implied consent in THAT instance? Of course it was: I am male and she is female and even though she did have power over me it CANNOT be sexual harassment...

Or how about the time, at the same job, an older female customer made jokes about how much she likes talking to me because I am "so nice" while smiling at her relative and both laughing afterwards, which actually did make me feel awkward because I was explaining information about the product they had just asked me about. Was THAT sexual harassment either?

Or does it have to LITERALLY be the female CEO of a company, approaching a young male new employee and saying "let's have sex in my office now or you can kiss your job goodbye, right now!" before theses sorts of claims can be taken seriously?

If you feel comfortable with her touching your arm, then you know it is not hurtful and no need to get all worked up, however, if you do not feel comfortable...then do not pretend you do.

Its really all about how you feel, my last boss always liked to hug me. If it were a creepy gross guy trying to touch my boobs, i would not feel comfortable, however, she is a sweet lady that just wanted to be hugged from time to time and I was ok with it, we are still friends actually.

I also worked in a restaurant where this on server just wanted to stand there and hug me and rub my back (close to my butt) all the time. It felt weird but I didnt say anything bc I was too nice and did not want to offend. It took a bartender to notice it and report it for me. I was grateful for him doing that for me but now looking back, wish i could have been stronger and also wish for all women to be stronger in situations such as that.

a reply to: HeathenJessie

You have that backwards.

The minimum standard for a man, regardless of what goes on around him, or any other factor, is to be a gentleman. A woman could walk past a gentleman, while she was totally unclothed in any way, and all a gentleman would make would be eye contact. No cat calls, no suggestive behaviour of any kind, no assumption, no expectation, just acceptance and a determination to carry on his day. That is the MINIMUM standard of gentlemanly comportment I would expect from myself, leave alone any other man. He might go one further, and inquire of the woman "Are you alright? Do you require the use of my jacket? Is there anyone you would like me to call? Would you like to call the police, so they can track down the person who stole your clothing?".

A gentleman certainly would not use the opportunity to gawp, drool, or even raise an eyebrow in appreciation. A gentleman is more powerful than the chemistry of which he is made, and cannot, no matter how brazen the attempt, be pulled off that pinnacle of good form. All men ought be gentlemen. None ought be animals. Some however, only have to be in the company of a reasonably attractive woman, not even one partially undressed, or dressed in provocative fashion, and without invite or reason to do so, will announce their temporary and pointless infatuation with the objectified female. Such slaves to chemistry ought be confined to their dwelling places for the safety of all!

a reply to: TrueBrit

Seriously awesome comment.

a reply to: HeathenJessie

it seems like your friend wanted attention even if she claims she did not.

Anyways, when you are a nice person its not so easy saying "no".

also, fears of him becoming obsessive happen, people are strange. I dont want some freak becoming angry and abusive bc I flat out said "NO!", its creepy to begin with that he doesnt get the subtle hints.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

"Make up"!

If a woman uses make up at work, is she trying to attract attention from men in the workplace?

Shouldn't make up be outlawed at work?
Perhaps it would be a good idea if everyone in the workplace (male & female, alike) wore unflattering and identical Chairman Mao-like, grey pant suits.

Seems to work for NK.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Incredible post on so many levels.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
Perhaps it would be a good idea if everyone in the workplace (male & female, alike) wore unflattering and identical Chairman Mao-like, grey pant suits.

Seems to work for NK.

I vote for those new McDonalds Death Star uniforms.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: IAMTAT
Perhaps it would be a good idea if everyone in the workplace (male & female, alike) wore unflattering and identical Chairman Mao-like, grey pant suits.

Seems to work for NK.

I vote for those new McDonalds Death Star uniforms.

Everyone gets a Kim Jong-un hair cut.

a reply to: IAMTAT

Everyone can get a Moe haircut.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Is that not where all of the confusion comes into it?

No of course a man should not stare at a woman who happens to be walking by on the street, no matter how attractive he may find her. But sometimes, as has been mentioned women DO dress provocatively on purpose to get attention. They now actively want to be noticed by men, I have met previous girlfriends in these exact circumstances, but the situation seems to fall apart on two issues...

A - It isn't always clear when a woman is simply dressing in clothes that unintentionally exaggerate certain features and when she actively wants the attention.
B - How the attention is received (assuming the aim of the woman's appearance was to get attention) often depends on how attractive the woman finds the man looking at her.

The difference between a grand romantic gesture and a creep who needs locking up is whether the woman finds the man hot.

(And let me be clear, everything above works entirely in reverse too. Men also dress up when they want attention, and also react differently depending on whether they find the women looking at them attractive or not. I defaulted to men looking at women because I'm a man, but in no way is it one-sided or saying women are at fault and men aren't. We're all the same.)

In an ideal world, we'd all be able to accept that mistakes are made, say we are not interested, and have that listened to first time every time.


As many times as I retype that it seems to come across a bit stronger than I intended...probably because the above is an incredibly oversimplified answer to an incredibly non black-white issue, and not always correct.

a reply to: umbr360

'Looking' at a woman can now run the risk of being interpreted as 'staring' or 'ogling'...and, thus, labelled sexual harassment?

a reply to: TrueBrit

That sounds like a wonderful world you live in. I wish I could find a place like that.

Every time i go looking, I keep winding up back in reality. I think I'm lost.

TheRedneck

a reply to: IAMTAT

Looking' at a woman can now run the risk of being interpreted as 'staring' or 'ogling'...and, thus, labelled sexual harassment?

Yes, absolutely.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

It's a shame you don't feel empathy in addition, for people who have actually been sexually harassed and had their careers ruined because they wouldn't date/sleep with someone who had power over them in the workplace.

originally posted by: veracity
If you feel comfortable with her touching your arm, then you know it is not hurtful and no need to get all worked up, however, if you do not feel comfortable...then do not pretend you do.

Since when was sexual harassment about whether the victim felt comfortable? I thought it was about touching somebody in the workforce without their consent, without their being an urgency to do so? NOW it's about whether I "enjoyed it" or not?

If a man forces himself onto a woman and she initially resists but then starts to moan in pleasure after the second thrust, does that mean it was not rape because she enjoyed it?

Its really all about how you feel, my last boss always liked to hug me. If it were a creepy gross guy trying to touch my boobs, i would not feel comfortable, however, she is a sweet lady that just wanted to be hugged from time to time and I was ok with it, we are still friends actually.

How you feel? So it can ONLY be judged by the level of offence or discomfort the victim subjectively reveals it to have affected them by? Everything else is irrelevant? And you mean if men need a hug or some type of emotional affection because they are near breaking point...oh wait, they probably just said it to disguise their true intent which was for some type of sexual contact, right?

I also worked in a restaurant where this on server just wanted to stand there and hug me and rub my back (close to my butt) all the time. It felt weird but I didnt say anything bc I was too nice and did not want to offend. It took a bartender to notice it and report it for me. I was grateful for him doing that for me but now looking back, wish i could have been stronger and also wish for all women to be stronger in situations such as that.

What a traumatic experience. Sorry you had to suffer such pain. A good thing somebody else was there to realise you were so traumatised and in need of help at the time.

Male & Female Burkas in the workplace!

It's the only way to be sure.