So now flirting or asking a girl out is sexual harassment

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Well, I was young, cocky, and kinda impulsive back then. Needless to say, there was no second date. I luckily never saw her again.

This issue is very near and dear to my heart, because I have personally seen so much abuse in my life and I see that abuse rippling through society and continuing to cause pain like some kind of social cancer. I really wish anyone who falsely accused another person of sexual misconduct could have a large "S" branded on their forehead so people would know to avoid them in the future.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: Necrobile

originally posted by: IAMTAT
Open question:

Is a male telling a female co-worker, at work, that she looks pretty today, sexual harassment?

That depends, does she like you??

Explain, please.

The answer to your question all really depends on person in question. If she likes you, whether it be romantic interest or just friendship, chances are it won't be sexual harassment. Now if she doesn't like you, or if she's vindictive and you made her mad for any reason whatsoever, they could call it harassment. From there, it doesn't even matter if the co-worker in question got offended, if any other co-worker that doesn't like you heard it, they could report it as harassment.

I say it this way because I've seen it in the places I've worked throughout the years. It all depends on whether or not whoever is offended likes you.

a reply to: Necrobile

It all depends on whether or not whoever is offended likes you.

Exactly!

And that is exactly the problem.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Necrobile

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: Necrobile

originally posted by: IAMTAT
Open question:

Is a male telling a female co-worker, at work, that she looks pretty today, sexual harassment?

That depends, does she like you??

Explain, please.

The answer to your question all really depends on person in question. If she likes you, whether it be romantic interest or just friendship, chances are it won't be sexual harassment. Now if she doesn't like you, or if she's vindictive and you made her mad for any reason whatsoever, they could call it harassment. From there, it doesn't even matter if the co-worker in question got offended, if any other co-worker that doesn't like you heard it, they could report it as harassment.

I say it this way because I've seen it in the places I've worked throughout the years. It all depends on whether or not whoever is offended likes you.

So, I think you're saying sexual harassment in the workplace can be subjective.

Let's say the male and female co-worker don't really know each other very well, or that they currently have no personal feelings toward one another....just a man telling a woman he works with that she looks pretty today.

Is a male co-worker complimenting a female co-worker on her appearance a crime?


I ask this, because it's already been stated that a man whistling at a woman on the street is sexual harassment.

One could argue that a 'whistle' is also a compliment that a woman looks pretty.

It's funny when you see a new girl at work and later on during lunch she has 5 guys hovering around her. The same five guys that hover around every new girl that looks halfway decent. I mean its really not funny; for the girl that is. How the hell is she supposed to get her work done when she has to worry about these little followers thinking about her 24/7.

On the flip side what if us guys had some girl we obviously didn't want disrupting us every time we went to get a coke, passed by us on the way to the pisser, etc.. That crap would get annoying. I have had it personally happen to me and I had to lay the law down. Most girls are afraid to lay the law down to guys.

I just sit back, chill and let the ladies come to me. While watching the idiots compete with each other and get no return on their investment.

originally posted by: waggz
I just sit back, chill and let the ladies come to me. While watching the idiots compete with each other and get no return on their investment.

Same here. I slather on the Old Spice, pop my collar and just wait for the ladies to come a crawlin.

It is extremely demeaning and annoying when someone who you have already made it clear that you are not interested keeps on trying and trying.

You do not want to be mean to them and then they jump on that thinking "oh, she's into me" just bc you didnt flat out say "NO".

Im not trying to brag but I get (used to get more when I was younger) advances all the time. Its sweet and flattering the first time, but to keep trying is degrading and very annoying.

I would totes go for the guy who just sits there all chill and waits for me to come to him. Even if the guy hit on me at first and I denied him...then he sits back, chill...I MAY take a second look...but NOT if he keeps on keepin on me. Its a bad quality and should be considered harrassment.

a reply to: waggz

Be careful. Most won't, but that one woman that comes along occasionally might get offended at something you say (doesn't have to sexual in nature). Next thing you hear might be an attorney saying this:

"So you admit then, Mr. waggz, that you regularly played coy in your workplace with an express intention to lure unsuspecting women to you in the expectation if sexual favors, in knowing violation of the law? Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I ask you to carefully consider this obvious declaration as exactly what it is: an admission of guilt!"

Seen similar stuff...

TheRedneck

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Of course, this is exactly what this is. A hit piece.

Sexual Harrasment is bad, enough said. However, given our society its, in my opinion, gendered and that is sexist.

Sexual Harrasment doesnt pertain just to women, but since we live in a gendered sociery, you will automatically think womem sufferage. Crazy huh?

It is also used as a witch hunt platform, because of all the feelings it generates, perfect to slander reputations.

a reply to: HeathenJessie

Personal attacks are not allowed here on ATS. I am not the topic of this conversation.

Now going back to what I said. It is just a saying that's been used for years. I didn't coin it. However the meaning behind it is, "You should not date your co workers." Of course no one listens to this. Myself included. And many times problems don't arise because of a office relationship. But there have been cases where problems do arise and they end up costing the company money.

my 2 cents.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Mr.Redneck. From redneck to redneck I don't play coy. I dont play anything. I just act like myself and dont chase. If a girl likes me I will know it. They usually start staring or trying to get MY attention.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
So, I think you're saying sexual harassment in the workplace can be subjective.

Let's say the male and female co-worker don't really know each other very well, or that they currently have no personal feelings toward one another....just a man telling a woman he works with that she looks pretty today.

Is a male co-worker complimenting a female co-worker on her appearance a crime?


I ask this, because it's already been stated that a man whistling at a woman on the street is sexual harassment.

One could argue that a 'whistle' is also a compliment that a woman looks pretty.

Oh, it is definitely subjective. If we're going to take it in the direction you're going, then we also have to take into consideration how the compliment is given. There's a couple of factors to keep in mind when it comes to this topic; whether or not the compliment is sexual in nature, and whether or not the person being complimented is attracted to the one giving it.

I'll use my co-worker as an example. She's a very cool girl, young, and very pretty. She gets flirted with a LOT where we work. She and I get along very well, so we tend to talk a lot. After a person flirts with her, she'll normally complain to me about being tired of being hit on. What I noticed, though, is if she's attracted to the person she doesn't complain. I've noticed this sort of trend with all the women I've worked with throughout the years. If they're attracted to the person, they love it. If they're not attracted to them, then they're tired of always being hit on and complain.

In regards to the compliment being sexual in nature, my co-worker actually told me of a story that happened to her when she stepped away from our branch for her break. She was looking at heating pads when some older gentleman walked by the aisle, stopped, stared at her for a moment, then went on over to talk to her. He then informed her that she looks very good, he's in town for a short period of time, is a chiropractor, and he would love for her to go camping with him because he would massage her up and down. I don't remember the full quote, but what I typed here was actually pretty tame compared to what he told her. That one wasn't innocent at all and I could easily understand this one being considered sexual harassment.

In regards to the whistling, most women I've known have actually told me they don't like the whistling. They consider it rude(which I do as well), and isn't usually done because someone is dressed nice, it's usually done because the person whistling likes their body. Another way of putting it, it's usually more sexual in nature than just a good ol'compliment. I've also known many guys who felt it was ok to whistle at a woman. I've never known any of them to do it because the woman is dressed nice, they do it because they like some sexual feature of the woman. Granted, I know not everyone will share the belief, but I would argue the whistle is sexual harassment as well.

a reply to: waggz

Oh, I know that... but what will that jury know?

Just a warning to be cautious. The only requirement to be accused (and usually convicted) of sexual harassment is being born male. Seen it too many times.

TheRedneck

a reply to: veracity

Totally agree. I was very shy and insecure in my youth, and it was hard for me to come right out and say "No" to someone who was coming on to me. My way was to fake a smile, not say anything and either change the subject or leave the situation as quickly as possible. Now to me, that's a pretty obvious but polite "no" response. Unfortunately, there were some guys who just refused to take the hint. I have known women who were more vocal in their refusal - those women usually got talked about pretty harshly among the guys from that point on ("bitch", "frigid", "hag", etc.). I never wanted to be hated or bad-mouthed by people I worked with, so I was afraid to be more forthright in my refusal.

The workplace can be extremely complicated when men and women work together. I'm glad I don't work anymore.

I have summer co-op's and interns starting in a couple of weeks. Some will not survive in the corporate world. My first meeting with them told me they look at me as a PSM that will not get them far. The females may be worse this time around. Usually a male or two gets the boot in the first couple of weeks

originally posted by: Arnie123
Of course, this is exactly what this is. A hit piece.

And if it turns out to be true that Hannity sexually harassed her is it still a hit piece?

I don't have a dog in this fight, I think they are both tool bags.

originally posted by: Arnie123
Sexual Harrasment is bad, enough said. However, given our society its, in my opinion, gendered and that is sexist.

Sexual Harrasment doesnt pertain just to women, but since we live in a gendered sociery, you will automatically think womem sufferage. Crazy huh?

I can agree with this. I actually had something that made me very uncomfortable happen, and when I went to my bosses, nothing was done about it. I was working at a retail outlet which also had a coffee shop, and as a manager I had to cover lunches for the baristas. Nothing wrong with that, well, unless you had tons of work to do. lol

One particular barista I covered for creeped me out pretty bad. She stared a lot, which I didn't mind, but one day while I was covering her lunch I got a few dollars in tips. Normally I just let the baristas have them, but every so often the baristas want me to take what I earned. This particular barista came up to me, told me I had some tips, then put her hand in my pocket to give them to me. It wasn't just a simple finger tuck, either, it was full on hand rubbing against me in ways I didn't appreciate.

It shocked me pretty bad at first, I wasn't sure if I should just scoff at it or what. After a few hours, I decided to talk to my main manager about it, because it honestly creeped me out. Nothing was ever done about it. She was never talked to, never written up, never fired, nothing. I'm sure if I was female, and a guy did that to me, they'd be in trouble, but nope, I was a guy, so I guess it didn't matter.

My friends/co-workers teased me a lot about it, hehe, which is all good because that's how we were with each other. I never did go back into that cafe while she was working, though, I avoided her like the plague. lol

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
If a man does it to a woman there's outcry, a huge furore and the man lands in trouble and potentially loses his job.

This seems to be a recent thing, IMO.

There's a reason retaliation is often an element to a sexual harassment claim. Employers sometimes fire the accuser or take other retaliatory steps. Women accusers have not traditionally found a lot of support in coming forward.

But, sexism & misogyny are issues that have been hijacked by partisan politics, as of late...so they are getting a lot of attention. Personally, I resent that and think this new 'Democrat' vs. 'Republican' approach to the issues has done feminism a real disservice. Now the issues give the appearance of being nothing more than partisan tools rather than serious issues.

In 2008, I recall Jack Cafferty, on CNN, ranting about Hillary in one of his spiels saying sexism had nothing to do with her primary losses to Obama. Then, he turned to Campbell Brown and said, "Oooo, you look gooooood for your age." It was smarmy and she awkwardly paused. Of course, nobody reported on that or called him out...because Obama was The Chosen One.

In fact, I can remember all kinds of awful misogyny being leveled at Hillary and Sarah Palin, back then, by Democrats, and feminists were pretty much laughed at for even mentioning it.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454
I was waiting for the accusations against Hannity, and soon Tucker.

I found this to be a pretty good read concerning the matter.

The story seemed to come out of left field with all the focus on Trump, and this isn't the first time O'Reilly was accused of this.

The Murdoch boys are trying to clean house.

The statistical odds of 3 employees supposedly doing what they've been accused of is statistically nihl.

1 sure.

More than one ?

That's the stuff of conspiracy theory.

And is what we do on here.

originally posted by: veracity
I would say that any unwanted advances is sexual harrassment. Ask once then back off jerks.

You mean like the time my female manager touched my arm while laughing about how funny I was for telling a joke about my interaction with a difficult customer the day before when she was off? And then told her own joke about a past memory of her interaction with a difficult customer the week before when I as off, and touching my arm a second time?

Would that warrant "sexual harassment"? Was my silence regarded as implied consent in THAT instance? Of course it was: I am male and she is female and even though she did have power over me it CANNOT be sexual harassment...

Or how about the time, at the same job, an older female customer made jokes about how much she likes talking to me because I am "so nice" while smiling at her relative and both laughing afterwards, which actually did make me feel awkward because I was explaining information about the product they had just asked me about. Was THAT sexual harassment either?

Or does it have to LITERALLY be the female CEO of a company, approaching a young male new employee and saying "let's have sex in my office now or you can kiss your job goodbye, right now!" before theses sorts of claims can be taken seriously?