Did Paul Invent Christianity?

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: ChesterJohn

I know Paul teaches a different Gospel and not that Kingdom Gospel for Israel and those who were living peacefully with Israel's borders.

Then, why did Jesus tell His disciples to take HIS message (meaning Jesus') to the WHOLE WORLD?
Who taught you that the Kingdom gospel was only for Israel? It couldn't have been from Jesus...cause He said it was for everyone.

That is an excellent and irrefutable point.

Jesus warned about people teaching false gospels in his name, John's Epistles warn of the same.

Paul literally curses anyone who teaches another Gospel ''than the one we preached..."

So I guess Paul is not only guilty of blasphemy of the Spirit but he curses the Gospel of Christ.

Then claims his Gospel to be directly revealed to him by Christ through visions.

Says Paul:

'' Am I not an Apostle?"

No, Paul, you are not. You obviously don't know the amount of Apostles can't exceed 12 and are taking advantage of the Goyim's lack of knowledge about this.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Peace and love ! You and any loving soul can acheive the state of mind , when you are ready and when you least expect it ! GOD will send the holy ghost of love and truth to anoint you and your love will be fulfilled ! Do not let the name mystical metal hippie detour you from the message of the way to enlightenment ! I am a true mystic , gnostic , christ , i listen to melodic metal and i have a hippie mentality ! I do not speak or type in any knowledge unless i have confirmed it , as all of us must do ! Confirmation is far more profitable than conformity ! We are all individual free willed conscious imortal , indestructible , eternal , untouchable spiritual beings ! We are all not of this world and therefore we all need nothing of this world to sustain us , we are all just passing through this world as souls , as tourists , as foreigners ! Peace and love from the mystical metal hippie

originally posted by: ChesterJohn


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ROTFLMFO!!!!!!!

YOU THINK YOU BESTED ME! HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!

Other than the actual evidence in my comments and your refusal to accept my challenge to refute me on any point I have made:

This more than proves that I did, in fact, best you.

The fact that you typed such an immature denial reminiscent of Twitter trolling stating nothing other than typed laughter, lacking anything of a gentlemanly nature, humility or scholarship just shows everyone the type of person you are.

Either the epitome of Christian programming or the antithesis of Christ-like behavior.

You are just...aweful. Entertaining, but at the end of the day, aweful.

a reply to: Malocchio

His disciples were Jews of Israel and Israel was scattered throughout the world. But history showed as far as the disciples went was Antioch Ceasarea.

That is why your claim that 2 Cor 11 that Paul is speaking of the twelve as being the ones who were making merchandise of the Corinthians that Paul was refuting is wrong. There is no proof any of the twelve ever went west. Peter went to Babylon which is east and that is recorded in his letter.

Please, Malocchino, please quote the scriptures when you make claims it is so much easier to see if what you are saying is true or not. Because I will check the scriptures to see if what you say it=s true just like the Bereans did.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

so quote where Jesus and John warned of Paul?

Remember 1) that Paul was no wherein site, 2) Jesus had not gone to the cross yet, and 3) Israel was not rejected until Acts 7 when they stoned Stephan. we can and you should be able to see it that int he Old Testament Israel rejected God the father, in the Gospel (by handing him over to be crucified) the rejected God the Son, and in Acts 6,7 they rejected God the Holy Ghost, they rejected God wholly and they were set aside that God began a new work via PAUL. The man you hate and lay false claims against.

Paul taught against any other gospel other than the Gospel of the Grace of God given him by Jesu to testify to the world of. To use God's inspired verses given to Paul against him is tantamount to private interpretation. As Paul was preaching in to this current age we are in. So if one taught the Kingdom Gospel as the way they are accursed or if an angel, like the one in Rev 14, preached one during this age it was to be rejected because it was accursed to accept and follow any other gospel than the Gospel of the grace of God, given Paul as a testimony unto the gentiles and Jews alike.

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

You can make all the false claims about Paul you like, God's preserved word is correct and you are wrong.

a reply to: Malocchio

I am still laughing,

you have done nothing but interject personal opinion and bias by twisting the scriptures out of their context.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Um I was speaking to Malocchino not you. so go fish.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

No he is looking for real followers not fly by night want ta be's

a reply to: Malocchio

Peace and love ! The truth existed before lies and the truth remains when all questioning ends ! Each one of us spiritual beings are responsible for our own lives individually ! The heretics who take the bible literally are the ones in the most fear , because they are not filled with the holy ghost of love and truth ! The religious wrong is not the right way to enlightenment , as it is the broadway ( gate ) to spiritual death and destruction ! You are a loving soul malocchio ! Take the narrow gate of spiritual life ! You will not regret it ! You must be open minded as the kingdom of heaven is an open book figuratively ! Peace and love from the mystical metal hippie

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio

I already proved as many as four times there are two to three witnesses of scripture that proved you were wrong. I showed the context of the sciptures you claimed supported your opinions and you failed. One of them was the baptism of fire you so eagerly seek to have, the other was the 12 disciples were representatives of Israel while one was said to be a Canaanite.

This again? I proved that the 12 Apostles are 12 because of the 12 tribes by quoting the Vision of New Jerusalem in Revelation, a matter that's beyond dispute.

Simon being from Phoenicia/Canaan doesn't change the fact that he was a Hebrew/Israelite as Jews lived all over the ancient world and Roman Empire. Canaan/Phoenicia was right next to Israel and had a Jewish population.

I don't know what makes you think that Simon's place of residence or birth effects the reason Jesus selected 12 Apostles, obviously to equal the amount of tribes of Israel, 12, but it's a weak and incorrect argument if you are trying to disprove that 12 was symbolic of the 12 tribes.

As I said, Revelation confirms this, Acts confirms the rules of eligibility for being an Apostle and that the amount can't exceed 12.

So you have done nothing save display your lack of applicable knowledge and facts.

Baptism is always good, to equate the Baptism of Fire with hell is a serious mistake only one who doesn't understand that Baptism is always beneficial, whether Spirit, water or Fire.

Try again.

A real Jew would never let himself be called a Canaanite, just ask one. That Paul was the Beast when he bade no one to take the mark ever and that he was dead long before revelation was written.

If he lived in Phoenicia, Canaan to the Jews, he would be called a Canaanite or Canaanaen because he lived there.

Show me where it says he was not a Jew, Simon, a Hebrew name and Jewish Apostle chosen by Christ.

So you are saying Christ erred in choosing Simon as an Apostle because he was from Phoenicia, and that he wasn't a real Jew because of where he was from?

That's a pretty poor assumption on your part.

It has been established by the witness your words are not true more than three times, and by the witness of two or three your words of falsehood have been established. the two or three witnesses has been around since Moses and it is still in affect. I will let the scriptures speak their witness against you. I need not speak any more on your errors. for those posts are here in this thread for anyone to read.

Mt 18:16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
2Co 13:1 ¶ This [is] the third [time] I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

How is this supposed to put a dent in my presentation?

You just showed you will stretch the truth to make a point that is false.

Baptism of Fire is good. Fire is a symbol of Wisdom and purity and when associated with Jesus and Baptism is so far from having anything to do with hell the Hubble couldn't locate it from hell.

Simon lived in Phoenicia/Canaan but was a Jew, as were all of the 12 Apostles and the fact that he lived just outside of Israel is irrelevant to his being Jewish as Judea was far from the only place Jews lived.

You don't even make this difficult ChesterJohn.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

originally posted by: Malocchio


One organization on earth has done more to destroy and falsify history perpetrating a scam that has never been equalled, paralleled or even approached.

The Old Testament God or Gods, Elohim, Yahweh, El Shaddai, El Elyon and El...a lot of things, with the exception of El Elyon, was a/were evil murderous and demonic.

From the moment the Bible opens man is to blame for being deceived by a more intelligent creature that God placed in the Garden of Eden specifically so Adam and Eve would fall, they never had a chance.

God rejects Cain for no reason and with 4 people on record we have the first murderer, also forseen and overseen by an Omnipotent God who has shady tendencies and is a sadistic potentate.

He removes Adam and Eve from Paradise and revoked their immortality because of a plan he hatched.

Later the Sons of Elohim invade, occupy and wreak havoc on earth making demigod like giants called Nephilim. For their deeds man is nearly wiped out.

Infanticidal, homicidal, genocidal, tyrannical and vindictive beyond comprehension often commanding wholesale slaughter this Yahweh Elohim is an evil King or Caesar with the benefit of absolute power over all things.

The Jews were a proud people and truly not the warlike people of Joshua like conquests they appreciated wisdom and righteousness and during the Persian epic they flourished and adopted customs foreign to the Babylonian Jews returning from a highly polytheistic culture after being a polytheistic culture and decided that one God was all powerful and the Sons of God were considered messengers or angels and they developed a hierarchy of angels, Cherubim, Seraphim, Ophanim and the demons as well developed identies in Enochian scripture as the dead Nephilim souls and you have the Irim/Grigori Watchers who some became fallen and identical with the Sons of God of Genesis.

And then to make everything right for mans, by comparison to Yahweh, pity sins God decided to have his Son killed as a sacrifice like a goat but crucified for being sinless.

Goats were used as sacrifices on the day of atonement, one for Azazel was led out to the desert and either released or in Rabbinical tradition pushed off a cliff but in the Bible they release him in the desert.

This is why Jesus Barabbas was set free, to mimick the ritual of atonement. Releasing a prisoner was not Jewish tradition at all it was a goat but it was done to match the atonement ritual in the Old Testament Day of Atonement that cleansed Israels sins and turned a cut red string tied to the goat and held by the priest from red to white in Rabbinical tradition and maybe the OT but it's the meaning behind the "White as snow" metaphor Jesus uses for sins.

The Gospels actually don't say Jesus sacrifice is a sin offering once and for all Paul invented this theology and the New Testament was made to showcase that theology and the cancellation of Mosaic law and any chance of ''salvation" unless you believe that Christ died for your sins.

The Apostles were marginalized and Paul was jammed into the story with a satirical tale in Acts of the Apostles, which is the Acts of Paul and for the attentive reader a joke revealing the hypocrisy of Paul in his later writings that are sometimes polemical against the Jerusalem faction with subtle and not subtle accusations climaxing when he compares them to Satan and calls them false Apostles.

This fact is ignored and has been for 2000 years as liar after liar quotes the "angels of light" Satan quote without mentioning it is the Apostles of Christ, the arch Apostles who "what they were means nothing..." to Paul as they "added nothing to" him regarding his Gospel.

But Christ died as a human/God sacrifice that magically covers believers sins and is the only thing that can assure you don't go to hell.

And anyone who believes this gets to go to Heaven.

Greatest scam ever as Christianity=💲💲💰💰💰💵💵💶💴💴 and well behaved drones who smile 24/7 but are miserable and do what they are told.

Or Jesuit assassins.

I concur, Yahweh as a merciful God is a joke, today's Jews do not regard those horror stories as history and laugh at how duped by it the Christian is.

Good summary yourself!

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

originally posted by: Malocchio


One organization on earth has done more to destroy and falsify history perpetrating a scam that has never been equalled, paralleled or even approached.

The Old Testament God or Gods, Elohim, Yahweh, El Shaddai, El Elyon and El...a lot of things, with the exception of El Elyon, was a/were evil murderous and demonic.

From the moment the Bible opens man is to blame for being deceived by a more intelligent creature that God placed in the Garden of Eden specifically so Adam and Eve would fall, they never had a chance.

God rejects Cain for no reason and with 4 people on record we have the first murderer, also forseen and overseen by an Omnipotent God who has shady tendencies and is a sadistic potentate.

He removes Adam and Eve from Paradise and revoked their immortality because of a plan he hatched.

Later the Sons of Elohim invade, occupy and wreak havoc on earth making demigod like giants called Nephilim. For their deeds man is nearly wiped out.

Infanticidal, homicidal, genocidal, tyrannical and vindictive beyond comprehension often commanding wholesale slaughter this Yahweh Elohim is an evil King or Caesar with the benefit of absolute power over all things.

The Jews were a proud people and truly not the warlike people of Joshua like conquests they appreciated wisdom and righteousness and during the Persian epic they flourished and adopted customs foreign to the Babylonian Jews returning from a highly polytheistic culture after being a polytheistic culture and decided that one God was all powerful and the Sons of God were considered messengers or angels and they developed a hierarchy of angels, Cherubim, Seraphim, Ophanim and the demons as well developed identies in Enochian scripture as the dead Nephilim souls and you have the Irim/Grigori Watchers who some became fallen and identical with the Sons of God of Genesis.

And then to make everything right for mans, by comparison to Yahweh, pity sins God decided to have his Son killed as a sacrifice like a goat but crucified for being sinless.

Goats were used as sacrifices on the day of atonement, one for Azazel was led out to the desert and either released or in Rabbinical tradition pushed off a cliff but in the Bible they release him in the desert.

This is why Jesus Barabbas was set free, to mimick the ritual of atonement. Releasing a prisoner was not Jewish tradition at all it was a goat but it was done to match the atonement ritual in the Old Testament Day of Atonement that cleansed Israels sins and turned a cut red string tied to the goat and held by the priest from red to white in Rabbinical tradition and maybe the OT but it's the meaning behind the "White as snow" metaphor Jesus uses for sins.

The Gospels actually don't say Jesus sacrifice is a sin offering once and for all Paul invented this theology and the New Testament was made to showcase that theology and the cancellation of Mosaic law and any chance of ''salvation" unless you believe that Christ died for your sins.

The Apostles were marginalized and Paul was jammed into the story with a satirical tale in Acts of the Apostles, which is the Acts of Paul and for the attentive reader a joke revealing the hypocrisy of Paul in his later writings that are sometimes polemical against the Jerusalem faction with subtle and not subtle accusations climaxing when he compares them to Satan and calls them false Apostles.

This fact is ignored and has been for 2000 years as liar after liar quotes the "angels of light" Satan quote without mentioning it is the Apostles of Christ, the arch Apostles who "what they were means nothing..." to Paul as they "added nothing to" him regarding his Gospel.

But Christ died as a human/God sacrifice that magically covers believers sins and is the only thing that can assure you don't go to hell.

And anyone who believes this gets to go to Heaven.

Greatest scam ever as Christianity=💲💲💰💰💰💵💵💶💴💴 and well behaved drones who smile 24/7 but are miserable and do what they are told.

Or Jesuit assassins.

edit on 21-10-2016 by Malocchio because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

originally posted by: Malocchio


One organization on earth has done more to destroy and falsify history perpetrating a scam that has never been equalled, paralleled or even approached.

The Old Testament God or Gods, Elohim, Yahweh, El Shaddai, El Elyon and El...a lot of things, with the exception of El Elyon, was a/were evil murderous and demonic.

From the moment the Bible opens man is to blame for being deceived by a more intelligent creature that God placed in the Garden of Eden specifically so Adam and Eve would fall, they never had a chance.

God rejects Cain for no reason and with 4 people on record we have the first murderer, also forseen and overseen by an Omnipotent God who has shady tendencies and is a sadistic potentate.

He removes Adam and Eve from Paradise and revoked their immortality because of a plan he hatched.

Later the Sons of Elohim invade, occupy and wreak havoc on earth making demigod like giants called Nephilim. For their deeds man is nearly wiped out.

Infanticidal, homicidal, genocidal, tyrannical and vindictive beyond comprehension often commanding wholesale slaughter this Yahweh Elohim is an evil King or Caesar with the benefit of absolute power over all things.

The Jews were a proud people and truly not the warlike people of Joshua like conquests they appreciated wisdom and righteousness and during the Persian epic they flourished and adopted customs foreign to the Babylonian Jews returning from a highly polytheistic culture after being a polytheistic culture and decided that one God was all powerful and the Sons of God were considered messengers or angels and they developed a hierarchy of angels, Cherubim, Seraphim, Ophanim and the demons as well developed identies in Enochian scripture as the dead Nephilim souls and you have the Irim/Grigori Watchers who some became fallen and identical with the Sons of God of Genesis.

And then to make everything right for mans, by comparison to Yahweh, pity sins God decided to have his Son killed as a sacrifice like a goat but crucified for being sinless.

Goats were used as sacrifices on the day of atonement, one for Azazel was led out to the desert and either released or in Rabbinical tradition pushed off a cliff but in the Bible they release him in the desert.

This is why Jesus Barabbas was set free, to mimick the ritual of atonement. Releasing a prisoner was not Jewish tradition at all it was a goat but it was done to match the atonement ritual in the Old Testament Day of Atonement that cleansed Israels sins and turned a cut red string tied to the goat and held by the priest from red to white in Rabbinical tradition and maybe the OT but it's the meaning behind the "White as snow" metaphor Jesus uses for sins.

The Gospels actually don't say Jesus sacrifice is a sin offering once and for all Paul invented this theology and the New Testament was made to showcase that theology and the cancellation of Mosaic law and any chance of ''salvation" unless you believe that Christ died for your sins.

The Apostles were marginalized and Paul was jammed into the story with a satirical tale in Acts of the Apostles, which is the Acts of Paul and for the attentive reader a joke revealing the hypocrisy of Paul in his later writings that are sometimes polemical against the Jerusalem faction with subtle and not subtle accusations climaxing when he compares them to Satan and calls them false Apostles.

This fact is ignored and has been for 2000 years as liar after liar quotes the "angels of light" Satan quote without mentioning it is the Apostles of Christ, the arch Apostles who "what they were means nothing..." to Paul as they "added nothing to" him regarding his Gospel.

But Christ died as a human/God sacrifice that magically covers believers sins and is the only thing that can assure you don't go to hell.

And anyone who believes this gets to go to Heaven.

Greatest scam ever as Christianity=💲💲💰💰💰💵💵💶💴💴 and well behaved drones who smile 24/7 but are miserable and do what they are told.

Or Jesuit assassins.

Sir....I think that's the best damn summation of what's really going on with the Bible and Christianity, that I have ever read. Kudos to you!
(I think about all of this stuff while I'm working during the day...have time to, since I clean houses). So, just the past day or two, I thought to myself, "who is the accuser of mankind?" Well, most Christians will immediately tell you, "Satan!" Then, I thought....YHWH sure accused mankind constantly.
Next thing I thought of...."who brags about owning all the kingdoms of this world?"...even tempting Jesus to bow down before him and he would give it all to him. Once again...that answer would be Satan (to Christians). Well, YHWH sure brags in the Bible at owning it ALL...and demands obedience, "lest these curses come upon you". Yea, YHWH sure liked to curse people who didn't bow down and serve him. He demanded love and obedience, but also threatens you if you don't acquiesce. Doesn't sound too loving of a god to me. There were rules, rules, and more rules. Animals were sacrificed...innocent animals who can't really take away anyone's "sin". That's moronic. It 'just shows a blood thirsty deity. Women were considered "less" than men and treated as chattel. Those with deformities or anything wrong with them, were considered "unworthy".
So, I thought, "wow...YHWH (or whoever this deity is...I'm sure he goes by other names, as you have pointed out)....is the "god of this world"...but not a good god....and definitely not the Father that Jesus revealed to everyone.)

Nicest compliment I have ever received, no joke.

Thanks.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Peace and love to you ! Chester john ! You have to take full responsibility for your own life as their is no savior coming to save you ! You can not keep your physical body , so you must save your self ! Peace and love from the mystical metal hippie

a reply to: Malocchio

Simon was a Canaanite, and what it proves he will build it on the twelve one of them representing the stranger who would live peaceably with Israel. For the law of Moses was for Israel and the stranger who would live among them. You have over looked it by not really knowing the scriptures

Exo 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Lev 24:22 Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.
Num 15:15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.
Num 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

The baptism of fire as shown in thread page 31 is judgement fire. just follow the context staritng in verse 7 to those who are his he will baptise with the Holy Ghost (like me) and those who are not his with fire.

Mt 3:7 ¶ But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Mt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

I think you have a difficulty in seeing what God's word says not I.

a reply to: mysticalmetalhippie

If I did I will die the death. But because Christ paid the price for me in his vicarious death I am free from death and live in him and for him in righteousness forever.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Roms 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

My Saviour came and died upon the cross that I might live in him forever.

a reply to: Malocchio

Don't you yet see that you have no idea if there are god's or a god.

You and matrixsurviver have no proof that god is even true because the Bible you quote is false and corrupted and that according to your own words, and that you claim it is just written by men. And furthermore you both claim that God has not kept his word to preserve his words to all generation forever.

So in light of your profession of God's word you have no leg to stand on concerning Paul or any other doctrine you may espouse to teach here.

No. by far you are the one who is duped by that old serpent, the Devil, and Satan

Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

a reply to: ChesterJohn



If you want to believe that the Baptism of Fire is bad go ahead, it's your loss.

And the fact remains that the reason for the selection of 12 Apostles was because of the 12 tribes.

Simon was still a Jew, living in a country doesn't change your race and you are the first person I have ever come across that suggested that Simon wasn't a Hebrew (he obviously was) or that another reason besides the 12 tribes was why there were 12 Apostles.

That's theology 101 and you can tease the Old Testament all you want it doesn't change a thing.

12 tribes, 12 Apostles, it's not rocket science.

Do I have to quote the Vision of New Jerusalem again?

I don't, that point has been established many times as I have quoted it at least twice.

What the hell:

Revelation 21:12

It had a great high wall with 12 gates, and at the gates 12 angels , and on the gates are inscribed the names of the 12 tribes of the Israelites;... 14 And the wall of the city has 12 foundations , and on them are the 12 names of the 12 Apostles of the Lamb.

There you have it. If ever a verse exists to show that 12 was a sacred number and the reason for there being 12 Apostles was that there were 12 tribes, THIS IS IT.

Obsessing about Simon's birthplace or residence is pointless, a Jew is a Jew no matter his residence and his race would have no effect on the reason for choosing exactly 12 even IF he was a Phoenician (though he was Jewish).

It's a desperate argument that defies even mainstream theology as 12 is 12 is 12 and every Christian knows that the reason there are 12 Apostles is because of the 12 tribes.

Matrixsurviveer, JHVH only accused Israel of violating his law and ordinances and precepts and ways and commandments and judgements, and statues.

ALL mankind outside Israel was never accused of by God. The gentiles were strangers to the covenants and promises of of God.

Eph 2:11 ¶ Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision (gentiles) by that which is called the Circumcision (Israel) in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

a reply to: Malocchio

You deny what is in the context of God's word to cling to your baptism by fire as a good thing, when in fact the context says otherwise. No you go ahead and take hold of it whole heartily.

But lets see what the verse says

Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Re 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

the foundation is for Israel but the stranger that would live among them the foundation stone is laid that they too may enter.

So your post reply means nothing but supports the fact that God accepts the stranger who lives among them like Simon did.

Acts 1:22

, beginning from the Baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us--one of these must become a witness with us to his ressurection. 23 So they proposed two, Joseph Barsabbas, who was also known as Justus, and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed and said, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which one of these you have chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship which Judas(Judah) turned aside to go to his own place. 26 And they cast lots for them, and I lot fell on Matthias; and he was added to the eleven Apostles.


Now the number of Apostles had to be 12 and qualifications for being an Apostle were so strict only two men were eligible.

Did they appoint both? No. Why not?

Because 12 was the maximum and minimum and the last Apostle chosen by God was Matthias. After the 12 Apostles were finalized there was no more appointing of Apostles just disciples.

Revelation proves that 12 was the amount of tribes and thus Apostles of the Lamb. It doesn't say ''the 12 Apostles of the Lamb and Paul the 13th Apostle."

Just twelve.