Did Paul Invent Christianity?

a reply to: Malocchio

that is true under the Gospel of the kingdom.

But later Jesus appoints one that has nothing to do with the kingdom, but has all to do with the body of Christ. Where his wounds were the marks of their death, and his blood covers their sin and God passes over because he is the lamb that taketh away the sins of the world.

But only for those who believe the gospel of the grace of God.

Now I will prove that fire is symbolic of the Holy Spirit re: Baptism.

Acts 2:3 The Coming of the Holy Spirit

Divided (forked) tongues as of fire appeared among them, and a tongue rested on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave them ability.

Forked tongues of fire descend upon the Apostles that fill them with the Holy Spirit which gives them Wisdom (ability to speak unknown language, symbolic of enlightenment).

The forked tongue of fire is a ''wise serpent" reference ''Be wise as serpents" and the fire is the ''Baptism of Spirit and of fire."


ChesterJohn, do you just not read Acts?

Do you really have such a poor knowledge of scripture you don't know about ''Pentacost?"

There is no logic or truth to the uneducated statement that there exists a bad baptism and that Jesus Baptism of Fire is hellfire.

Only someone who has no knowledge of scripture would say what scripture says the opposite of and think that the Baptism of Fire is bad.

Clearly fire is symbolic of Wisdom and in the shape of a reptile tongue is the Holy Spirit at ''Pentacost."

I am amazed that anyone would make a statement so easy to disprove.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio

that is true under the Gospel of the kingdom.

But later Jesus appoints one that has nothing to do with the kingdom, but has all to do with the body of Christ. Where his wounds were the marks of their death, and his blood covers their sin and God passes over because he is the lamb that taketh away the sins of the world.

But only for those who believe the gospel of the grace of God.

You clearly have no grasp on the context or subtext or meaning of the Gospels or Jesus mission and have done exactly what you accuse everyone else of, ''twisting scripture."

You think that the Kingdom of God is only for Israel, Jesus says ''Make disciples of all nations", so your dead wrong.

Only someone who is obsessed with race/nationality would think God made a separate Kingdom for Israel and an inferior one for goyim with different rules.

The entire concept of ''kingdom of grace" is the work of a lying, deranged hypocrite who only lies when he opens his mouth (or writes).

Good luck with that. And read your Bible, you know nothing.

a reply to: Malocchio

You cant take away the context if you do then it is a pretext which means you put your preconceived ideas in place of the context. And therefore it is no longer God words but yours.

the signs are for the Jews for they desired it and needed it, We gentile(Greeks) seek wisdom. All the context of the first chapters until chapter 9 are all kingdom gospel and for Israel. Once Israel rejected the holy Ghost Jesus sent Paul unto the Gentiles. Plus tongues were no proof of God to the believer but tot he unbeliever. I am a believer and your fire baptism is not proof of God to me and had nothing to do with tongues of fire as a sign to those in Jerusalem, you will notice there were 16 tongues spoken and 16 men in the group the 12 plus 4 brothers of Jesus, it was a sign for Israel. Not something for today unless as Paul taught the tongues was interpreted, these men needed not an interpretation for all of them heard it in their own language.

Ac 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

1Cor 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe

originally posted by: mysticalmetalhippie
a reply to: Malocchio

Peace and love ! The truth existed before lies and the truth remains when all questioning ends !

Each one of us spiritual beings are responsible for our own lives individually ! The heretics who take the bible literally are the ones in the most fear , because they are not filled with the holy ghost of love and truth ! The religious wrong is not the right way to enlightenment , as it is the broadway ( gate ) to spiritual death and destruction ! You are a loving soul malocchio ! Take the narrow gate of spiritual life ! You will not regret it !

You must be open minded as the kingdom of heaven is an open book figuratively !

Peace and love from the mystical metal hippie

Thanks, you guys are making me blush😂

I am happy to see enlightened souls, glad to make your acquaintance!

a reply to: Malocchio

NO you misunderstand when the kingdom gospel is for all nations. right now it is not. But will come back into play in the great Tribulation.

a reply to: mysticalmetalhippie

Go ahead and stand before God responsible for you own sin.

How will you recompense him for your sin?

What will you pay?

What is more precious than his own blood?

Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Ro 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio

NO you misunderstand when the kingdom gospel is for all nations. right now it is not. But will come back into play in the great Tribulation.

Nope. I don't misunderstand anything re: this conversation.

You merely have an inability to see or admit the truth. Everything you have said I have refuted using scripture that I am familiar with and you can't honestly deny it so you unwittingly admit you're following a false prophet and different gospel than that of Jesus.

You have a misunderstanding that the Kingdom of God preached by Jesus was not for the Goyim, though Jesus says otherwise.

In the process you prove that Paul did make up what is today Christian theology, that it differs from the Gospel of Christ, the Kingdom of God.

You made your choice to follow the false prophet because you have issues about Jews and want no part of the Kingdom of God because it was the Gospel preached by the Apostles and not that murdering rat Saul.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio

You cant take away the context if you do then it is a pretext which means you put your preconceived ideas in place of the context. And therefore it is no longer God words but yours.

Save the hypocritical rhetoric.

the signs are for the Jews for they desired it and needed it, We gentile(Greeks) seek wisdom.

This is called racism.

All the context of the first chapters until chapter 9 are all kingdom gospel and for Israel. Once Israel rejected the holy Ghost Jesus sent Paul unto the Gentiles. Plus tongues were no proof of God to the believer but tot he unbeliever. I am a believer and your fire baptism is not proof of God to me and had nothing to do with tongues of fire as a sign to those in Jerusalem, you will notice there were 16 tongues spoken and 16 men in the group the 12 plus 4 brothers of Jesus, it was a sign for Israel. Not something for today unless as Paul taught the tongues was interpreted, these men needed not an interpretation for all of them heard it in their own language.

Ac 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

1Cor 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe

The tongues of fire were the Holy Spirit.

The Jews didn't reject it, the disciples who received the Spirit at Pentecost consisted of Jews.

You really need to stop obsessing over Jew vs Gentile (Greek). There is no distinction between Jew and Goyim within the fellowship of Christ, just in the mind of anti Semitic Christians.

Gentile means Greek or Goyim or nations and isn't an actual distinction but an anti-distiction making it inherently biggoted.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio

NO you misunderstand when the kingdom gospel is for all nations. right now it is not. But will come back into play in the great Tribulation.

It's always the Kingdom of God and the Gospels are the introduction to it.

The Paraclete has been with us for at least 2000 years and the Kingdom of God is Infinite, now and forever.

Sadly you have no grasp on the actual teachings of Jesus and simply don't understand what he means because you are confused about different gospels and kingdoms and races and dividing truth.

Truth is Universal and the Kingdom of God is for all..
NOW.

I am sorry you are so confused, try a new Church or a Pastor who doesn't have a Jew phobia.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I am Sorry but you do not believe God preserved his words to this Generation as promised in Psalm 12:6&7.

Nope....WE believe Jesus is who we should be listening to.

Therefore you cannot be sure any of your bible is accurate and true.

It's not. Though there is much of it that is credible...especially when Jesus is speaking.

You cannot even know if Jesus is a real person because he could be just made up. You cannot even know for sure you are saved and going to heaven. Or that the comforter is the Holy Ghost it could be a blanket. As far as your own words go, the Bible is corrupt and you are left to define what is true and what is not.

I know He is a real person because I've MET HIM....and been filled with the TRUE Holy Spirit and can tell the difference in the Bible, the things that are true and the things that are evil and lies.
Oh, and I don't worry about Heaven or the Holy "Ghost" being a blanket. I just want to be a good person and listen to Jesus on how that should look.
I don't believe you get to go to "Heaven" just because you believe Paul's crap and think it doesn't take anything but "belief" in Jesus. Hey, the demons believe in Him too....and they ain't going to Heaven.

As far as your own words go, the Bible is corrupt and you are left to define what is true and what is not.

No....I'm left to listen to my HEART that the true GOD has captured. And the damn Bible doesn't even come close to showing who He truly is.

So therefore you argue and debate from a standpoint that is weak and beggarly. You minus well just make up anything you want, oh wait you already have, and try and live by it.

Guess so Chester. Do you want to know what I live by? Doing good to others, not harming any sentient being (which would include animals) and trying to take care of "the least of these". If the God you think is real isn't satisfied with that, then he can kiss my a**.

So don't quote your corrupt bible that cannot be true to me in support of your corrupt teachings.

The Bible IS corrupt...yet, I still see goodness in it I should follow...mainly the Son of Man that you can't seem to HEAR.
But hey, if a Book is your "GOD", then so be it. I'm pretty much done with you.
You are like every scared Christian out there....you can't think for yourself, and you certainly can't hear the Savior you profess.
Good luck.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: mysticalmetalhippie

Go ahead and stand before God responsible for you own sin.

How will you recompense him for your sin?

What will you pay?

What is more precious than his own blood?

Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Ro 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

DUDE....get off his back! Jesus' blood does not set you free from anything!! Living the example He gave us does!!
Seriously! I feel sorry for you.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

sorry to inform you but the Holy Ghost baptized me into Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles,

You just contradicted your whole theory of Israelites receiving a different Gospel than Goyim, with your false prophet's own words.

That's gotta sting!!!

whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Ephesians 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

I feel like I am reading the words of a used car salesman!!!

Now where is your verse where Jesus talks about baptizing us into his body.

"Go, make disciples of all nations, baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit."

I don't know about being in Christ's body, that sounds phony to me, but clearly Christ baptized and commanded we be Baptized, I don't know even what point you think you are making but it is not even a point, more of an irrelevancy.

Jesus called Paul after his ascension, something you deny.

Only people who are either naive or uneducated Biblically regard the story of Paul's so called conversion as true.

Anyone who investigates will see he just plain made it up.

Where are the witnesses? Luke wasn't there and reports contradictory accounts of an ''event" Paul never even mentions in his writings.

You don't have to be a genius to figure out he lied and that you are living your life based on lies.

Murderer and liar is Saul's resume'.

a reply to: Malocchio

Murderer and liar is Saul's resume'.

We seriously need a "dancing emoji", lol. Yup...we seriously do.
Fist bump, bro.
And now...I'm going to bow out...for now.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: Malocchio

Murderer and liar is Saul's resume'.

We seriously need a "dancing emoji", lol. Yup...we seriously do.
Fist bump, bro.
And now...I'm going to bow out...for now.

Stay blessed, my power is out so I have to bow out too.

The point has been made anyway, case closed on Saul the false apostle.

originally posted by: Malocchio
Only people who are either naive or uneducated Biblically regard the story of Paul's so called conversion as true.

Anyone who investigates will see he just plain made it up.

This is false. Many disagree, and it isn't out of fear, but experience.

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml

originally posted by: Malocchio
Only people who are either naive or uneducated Biblically regard the story of Paul's so called conversion as true.

Anyone who investigates will see he just plain made it up.

This is false. Many disagree, and it isn't out of fear, but experience.

It's not false. There are TWO spirits at work in the Bible. One is of the deceiver, and one is of the truth.
If you choose Paul, then you are going to be filled with deception. It may feel good, even bring you freedom from sins, but in the long run...you will act like a jerk...esp. when poked with the TRUE truth.
Paul was being led around by his nose...by the enemy (whomever that may be...I have my theories). All in all, if you immerse yourself in Paul's doctrine, you will be led around by the nose, as well.
Don't believe me? Then just look at what the church looks like today. Paul was a master at "double speak". Meaning, he was really good at using "sleight of hand".
He would name something (like "satan being able to appear as an angel of light"), to get people to focus on his words and think he had all the answers, to DEFLECT from himself.
"He" was the one with the deceptive spirit. He was just really good at getting you and everyone else at "looking at the other hand".

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml

originally posted by: Malocchio
Only people who are either naive or uneducated Biblically regard the story of Paul's so called conversion as true.

Anyone who investigates will see he just plain made it up.

This is false. Many disagree, and it isn't out of fear, but experience.

Sir, I suggest you do some homework on Paul. Can't hurt. If you still want to believe he's legit after doing "objective" homework on him, then more power to ya.
Start by searching "Paul, false apostle" on the internet. Just see how many hits you get.
There is no one else in the bible who brings up so much dissension, except for YHWH.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

But later Jesus appoints one that has nothing to do with the kingdom, but has all to do with the body of Christ. Where his wounds were the marks of their death, and his blood covers their sin and God passes over because he is the lamb that taketh away the sins of the world.

Well, last I noticed, this world is still "sinful" and YOU Chester, are still sinful, and so is everyone else I know (if we are going by god's standard of sinful).
Doesn't look like Jesus took away the sins of the world to me.
By the way, how many Christians do you know who are "free in Christ"? Are you?
I don't mean free as in, "once we are out of these sinful bodies we'll be free", but free NOW.
Any takers?

Oh, and what did Jesus say about that? Not Paul.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Reality can be stranger then fiction.I don't think he made it up, because his message alludes to an experience individuals can have on the path to self realization.

I know it's easy to harbour doubts about where he was coming from with all this, I still remember how I used to feel.Many churches everywhere accept what he had to say as a tool for bettering one's life.I think it would be wise for individuals to question what good comes discounting his role in the New Testament.

The churches I know are filled with good people coming together in fellowship.Outside of church, I feel blessed to live in a good community with strong spirit.Maybe things are different in your neck of the woods?

I don't think he had all the answers. but what is shared about him biblically has helped open doors for many seekers.This cuts beyond duality.