Did Paul Invent Christianity?

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

How do you define free NOW?

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

I know it's easy to harbour doubts about where he was coming from with all this, I still remember how I used to feel.Many churches everywhere accept what he had to say as a tool for bettering one's life.I think it would be wise for individuals to question what good comes discounting his role in the New Testament.

One must give credit where its due... Paul is the reason christianity spread as it did...

Thus... the initial premise of this thread

yet it still raises a question...

Is Christianity following Paul or Jesus?

By words or by action?

a reply to: ChesterJohn
Peace and love ! None of us spiritual beings can keep our physical bodies chester john ! Jesus did not shed his blood just so you do not have to take full responsibility for your own life chester john ! The money changers had jesus killed because he was a threat to their false material , physical wealth , false power and false status PERIOD ! The spiritually blind , deaf and dumb are misleading the spiritually blind into a ditch in their subconscious minds with the worst animal instincts ! The misguided are misled into religions like dispensationalism , dominionism and then they become black sun worshipping , blood letting spiritual death cults of the all spiritually blinded eye of the sun in the sky from the sadistic minds of animal men ! All literal churches are for profit masonic dummy front corporations floating on the stock market with no light , only darkness ! Christmass is celebration of the massacre of the physical body of the first christ , which means the anointed one by the ghoulish and gruesome without empathy or sympathy ! To all loving souls , i very highly recommend the gospel( good news ) of nicodemus ( pilate ) to you to read or listen to on youtube ! Do not take it literally ! If you take it literally , you will miss the hidden spiritual meanings ! Jesus was called a sorcerer in the gospel of nicodemus for opposing the pharisees ! Jesus was also called a sorcerer in the baby-lonian talmud for opposing the pharisees , the real sorcerers ! Babylonian means confusion and talmud means teachings = the teachings of confusion to divide the minds and conquer the spiritual beings with mental disorders out of chaos ! The pharisees( materialists ) are still here and instead of robes , they wear suits ! Peace and love to all my spiritual family from the mystical metal hippie
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a reply to: Malocchio

Peace and love to you brother from the mystical metal hippie

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Peace and love ! You are truly a loving soul and bless your big figurative heart ! Using the name jesus will not give any spiritual being a masonic hall pass L.O.L. to keep from experiencing the great flood of tears of repentance ! What goes up must come down figuratively ! All macho spiritual beings with masculine , feminine or transexual physical bodies ! You will not escape the tribulation of the great flood of tears of repentence as you cannot escape your minds PERIOD ! Peace and love from the mystical metal hippie

a reply to: Akragon

Words can often be a barriers to finding God.This actually reminds me of a bit of Anthony de Mello...

Anthony de Mello, One Minute Wisdom

Barriers to God

The Master would insist that the final barrier to our attaining God was the word and concept "God." This so infuriated the local priest that he came in a huff to argue the matter out with the Master. "But surely the word 'God' can lead us to God?" said the priest. "It can," said the Master calmly. "How can something help and be a barrier?" Said the Master, "The donkey that brings you to the door is not the means by which you enter the house."

Action is where one's beliefs hit the dirt...

The Parable of the King and his Garden

By Jean de Cabalis

There once was a King who was graced with large grounds and a beautiful garden of light and beauty. Everyday the King walked and meditated in the garden, for the garden was his private palace of prayer; His delight where he could commune with God and express the feelings within his soul.

The sun shone and the every day the King enjoyed the bees, birds, butterflies and other creatures that graced the garden with their presence. But most of all, the King enjoyed the splendour of colour and beauty and wonderment of his flowers – and of the flowers the Rose was his favourite. Yes of the garden he was especially pleased.

And though the King did work in the garden at his leisure, He left much of the care of the garden in charge of his gardener, for Kings as you know are much busy with affairs of state. Certainly King was happy with the gardener, for the gardener did a good job nurturing and tending to the plants. And it especially pleased the King for he knew the gardener to be a godly man.

Now it so happened that the King noticed that the gardener had not been about for a few days, as the King usually saw him busy within garden when he went about his daily meditation. Somewhat concerned he asked a few of his servants about the palace; and there the King heard much that greatly disturbed him. For it was said that the gardener had been about some very strange doings! It was claimed that the gardener had been heard casting spell, singing songs in the garden at night, Yea he had even been seen with his hands covered in the smears of what looked like blood!

Oh...What pain, oh what rage, what sadness, what betrayal, what an aching heart was felt within the King. How could this be true, as tears filled his eyes; how could the gardener do this to him; how could his gardener spoil the garden so sacred to him, his private sanctuary so dear to the Kings heart. The King had to ask the question why. This much he owed the gardener. Was the gardener ill or under some sort of spell? To this end at least the King could forgive, maybe given time and repentance the gardener could be shown mercy for the King was a godly man.

That evening he walked on by the gardeners shed, looking in he smelt the scent of blood, further sadness that much was true. He sought the gardener, what evil could the gardener be doing, how dare he defile the blessing the trust placed in him. Seeking the gardener through the moonlit clouds he found the gardener kneeling before his pride and joy, singing his spell, in moonlit darkness by the King's favourite flowers, the Rose.

Oh...What pain, oh what rage, what sadness, what betrayal, what an aching heart was felt within the King. How could this be true, as tears filled his eyes; how could the gardener do this to him; how could his gardener spoil the garden so sacred to him, his private sanctuary so dear to the Kings heart, to his soul, the King's personal sanctuary, his own palace of dreams.

Yet the King had to ask the question why. This much he owed the gardener. Was the gardener ill or under some sort of spell? To this end at least the King could forgive, maybe given time and repentance the gardener could be shown mercy for the King was a godly man.

Out of concern, love and rage the King commanded the gardener to explain. The gardener softly stood up and unexpected to the King did not seek mercy nor show any shame. Instead the gardener smiled and said "My King please come for I have much to show you".

And on that journey which lasted nearly until the midnight hour the King shown flowers he had never seen amongst the day: White and pink flowers, most beautiful fragrance vines never smelt before, lovely lilies and beautiful flowering cactus. Then the gardener said to the King "For all the flowers within the garden, each one has a song; some a song of day and some a song of night"

Then King being more comforted by all he had seen and the splendour of the garden that continued into the night in which he slept, as the gardener what of the blood stained hands and the tending to roses at night.

The gardener took him to the roses and uncovered the topsoil around the roses; revealing freshly made blood and bone manure. And to the King he said, would it be proper to feed such a flower of beauty the food of death in the daylight. For truly my King it would not. And replacing the manure into the soil and covering it up with loose top soil, the gardener again spoke "See the nature of the rose, with its beauty and thorns."

And then the King understood and his eyes beheld God's Truth. Flower and thorn, lion and lamb, day and night, birth and death, hot and cold, sadness and joy, fear and faith; for All is part of God's Kingdom, His Glory and Plan.

Just as the King learnt of his garden, so is man's soul.

I just would like to further refute Chetser Johns ridiculous assumption that Simon the so called Canaanite was not a Hebrew.

The most obscure of all the Apostles was also called Simon the Zealot, obviously inferring he was both zealous for the law and an actual Zealot.

This makes it impossible for him to have been anything other than a Torah observant Jew and to my knowledge no Christian theologian of antiquity ever came close to claiming that him or any of the 12 Apostles wasn't/weren't Jews.

They all were.

It's rather absurd to take an obscure epithet denoting residence and not race and twist the facts of scripture to suggest one of the 12 was not an Israelite.

Wikipedia has a decent article on Simon the Zealot and his epithet the Canaanite doesn't come close to meaning he was a racial Canaanite, a people the OT claims were exterminated by Joshua's army although they weren't and became the Phoenicians (Pa Hanok, Phoenix= house of Enoch).

Chester has shown that he will take advantage of an obscure epithet and claim that one of Jesus disciples was a Canaanite, in the process showing a lack of knowledge of scripture.

Zealots were Jews, there is no question and it's not debatable as a Canaanite by race would not be zealous for the Law of a culture not his.

It's amazing to see someone who clearly believes himself an expert in Scripture miss something so obviously refuting his unsupportable claims as the alternate epithet ''Zelotes" or "the Zealot."

And to use a falsehood to suggest that the reason for the number of Apostles being 12 was not the 12 tribes is just plain ludicrous.

If you think you know scripture but don't know that the 12 Apostles were 12 because of the tribes you don't (know scripture). Any first year Christian can tell you that, even the most Pauline of Pastors will not deny this and resort to a different mode of lie to legitimize Paul's claim to being an Apostle.

Also to call the Baptism of Fire hellfire when Pentecost proves otherwise is also showing a total lack of knowledge of scripture and the Spirit.

The argument used to counter Pentecost as proof that fire is not universally associated with hell was that it applies only to Jews under the Kingdom Gospel and didn't apply to Gentiles (if I remember correctly), an argument that was disproven by the one making it in a quote by his very own false prophet Saul who stated that ''whether Jew or Gentile..." revealing yet again a misunderstanding and lack of knowledge as to what the Bible actually says and means.

I love a Christian who claims to be a master of scripture and truly understands little to nothing about it, proves it on an open forum and then accuses everyone of not ''understanding" when the person who least understands is the one making the accusation.

At least you tried Chester, but you have only shown everyone that your ''understanding" of scripture is as twisted as any cult like Christian Church, Koreshian even.

I suggest you start over Chester and do what all enlightened souls have done.

Acknowledge that you don't know isht and ask the Spirit for knowledge and Wisdom. Then, and only then, will you receive Gnosis.

And for the love of God get a better teacher, your head has been filled with lies and twisted interpretations resulting in an arrogance not based on knowledge but the errant belief that you have it.

You definitely don't.

originally posted by: mysticalmetalhippie
a reply to: Malocchio

Peace and love to you brother from the mystical metal hippie

Back at you!!

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

I know it's easy to harbour doubts about where he was coming from with all this, I still remember how I used to feel.Many churches everywhere accept what he had to say as a tool for bettering one's life.I think it would be wise for individuals to question what good comes discounting his role in the New Testament.

One must give credit where its due... Paul is the reason christianity spread as it did...

I highly doubt that this statement goes any further than being a claim unsupportable by history, real and reliable history.

Christian origins are shrouded in mystery but if Paul did actually personally do what you claim why does no corroboration from a contemporary historian such as Josephus not exist?

Because truth be told Paul is a pseudonym for whoever wrote his epistles and not a historical person of any significance.

The obscure people Josephus mentioned are numerous but a supposed successful missionary giant who travelled the ancient world spreading his "gospel" and establishing Churches gets no mention whatsoever?

Not likely, not believable. James is all but unknown historically except for Josephus mention and the murderer of James was Saul the Pharisee.

Changed into "Paul" and given the background story of ben Abuiah the character of Paul is a work of fiction.

His Epistles are all Pseudepigraphal and written to marginalize the Jewishness of Christianity, essentially propaganda designed to decieve.

Thus... the initial premise of this thread

yet it still raises a question...

Is Christianity following Paul or Jesus?

By words or by action?

They follow Paul, no question, but in no way does that legitimize the assertion that Paul actually did what is claimed by the Bible, a biased source not considered by anyone with the ability to think as history.

The roots of Christianity lie within the community of the Dead Sea Scrolls and it's success in the Roman Empire is due to Constantine.

prior to that there were more independent and diverse versions of Christianity mostly in Egypt and Syria, and Paul had nothing to do with founding a single one.

The Jewish Christians never accepted him, Syria did not until forced to do so and all that can be attributed to Paul is some lousy letters that form a lousy theology written by someone anonymous under that name to combat the ''Judaizers."

He deserves no credit for any physical activity regarding Christianity and founding Churches that didn't exist in his time.

Or even existing as a real person.

If one Epistle is considered pseudepigraphal, and many are in truth recognized by the earliest Church fathers as such, then the possibility of his so called genuine epistles were just as likely to be as well pseudepigraphal, even if one person wrote them.

Credit given to him is tradition, not historical fact, it's the epistles attributed to him and Constantine who deserve the credit.

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml

originally posted by: Malocchio
Only people who are either naive or uneducated Biblically regard the story of Paul's so called conversion as true.

Anyone who investigates will see he just plain made it up.

This is false. Many disagree, and it isn't out of fear, but experience.

Many disagreeing and saying ''this is false" doesn't make it so.

Many are decieved and it is true what I said.

Prove me wrong.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml

originally posted by: Malocchio
Only people who are either naive or uneducated Biblically regard the story of Paul's so called conversion as true.

Anyone who investigates will see he just plain made it up.

This is false. Many disagree, and it isn't out of fear, but experience.

It's not false. There are TWO spirits at work in the Bible. One is of the deceiver, and one is of the truth.
If you choose Paul, then you are going to be filled with deception. It may feel good, even bring you freedom from sins, but in the long run...you will act like a jerk...esp. when poked with the TRUE truth.
Paul was being led around by his nose...by the enemy (whomever that may be...I have my theories). All in all, if you immerse yourself in Paul's doctrine, you will be led around by the nose, as well.
Don't believe me? Then just look at what the church looks like today. Paul was a master at "double speak". Meaning, he was really good at using "sleight of hand".
He would name something (like "satan being able to appear as an angel of light"), to get people to focus on his words and think he had all the answers, to DEFLECT from himself.
"He" was the one with the deceptive spirit. He was just really good at getting you and everyone else at "looking at the other hand".

Well spoken, and not just because you agree.

a reply to: Malocchio

You know when someone has rejected the word of God, where is their wisdom?

You and Matrixsurviver reject God's word as true and without error claiming it is corrupted. Yet you want to talk about the same words you reject. This is true hypocrisy.

You made a claim in one of your post on one of the threads that Paul was covetous and was taking from the church and instructed timothy to do the same. You furthermore claimed that Paul's teachings never agree with Jesus teachings. Now remember this is all futile on your part because you believe the Bible is inaccurate and corrupt, and I quote you,"The Bible IS corrupt". You have become god, in God's stead, in determining what is true in the Bible and what is not". You have as the serpent promised become a god.

you quoted these two verses

1Co 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1Ti 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

But because you did not know the Bible as you claim this teaching is in direct agreement with Jesus teaching when he sent forth not just 12 disciples to preach the Kingdom Gospel along with signs and wonders (which were signs of an apostle).

Mt 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

There is one thing we know about men in general and I have personally seen this in action, is that when it comes down to brass tacks a man will do anything to save his life. I know of some who did not want to die at the hand of a Muslim attacker convert to Islam. When he did they spared his life (this is not ISIS mind you). Men will do anything to save there lives. Paul was beaten to death by Pharisees and Sadducees, he was later given to the Romans by the very group you say he secretly worked for in bring a false gospel tot he world. When it came down to it. If he did work for them, all he had to do was call a secret meeting with them and get himself released so he could go about the work he was doing on their behalf. They would have never killed him or given him or when they found him in the temple if he had collaborated with them to mislead the world with a false teaching to the gentiles.

No man will die for a lie. A man will do anything to save his life. But Paul had given up his life to Christ, bearing in his body the marks of Christ, he became a prisoner to Christ where human chains bound the chains of Christ gave him freedom. Look how the Philippian jailer acted when the whole prison was shaken and every prisoner was freed yet not one not even Paul ran for their life.

No, I am sorry to say you and your whole concocted misrepresentation of Paul, your misunderstanding of the difference of the callings of the 12 and Paul, and the gospels they taught (which are different for a reason) has only taken you further away from the truth and simplicity that is in Christ Jesus.

I will not argue with you over a book you do not believe is true, whole, accurate and preserved for it is futile.

We know you cannot refute me with scriptures so you call me angry, bitter, hater, liar, hypocrite, bigot, racist, and defame me falsely constantly to whit I leave you to your own fleshly mind and duplicity, claiming the words of Jesus are true and accurate in any version but the rest of the Bible is corrupted and false.

I will never get over how a person who claims to be full of the spirit of God, would use such corrupt communication while trying to represent Jesus. Word's like "cr#p" and say things like, "the damn Bible doesn't even come close to showing who He truly is." or this, "If the God you think is real isn't satisfied with that, then he can kiss my a**." No this is a man that is showing his mind is not renewed. This in and of itself is a grieving of the very spirit you claim to have, and shows clearly you have no changed life and that your claim to know him is false.

When I was filled with the Holy Ghost I no longer spake that way because my whole life changed.

The very scriptures you reject say this about people who think they can with hearts know anything of God especially with a heart of unbelief in his word. Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

The proof of what you speak is not true is in your own words and life which all can see throughout this thread, a life is full of bitterness, anger, malice, lies, distortions, cursing, denying the very blood that bought you.

Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27 Neither give place to the devil.
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

What a wonderful and loving teaching Paul has given us from God on how a believer should act if in fact they are saved.

I leave you too your rantings but I will not allow you to misrepresent Paul, who by all accounts was much more Holier than you will ever be. And your own words judge you thus.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Yeah, look.

I have nothing to prove to you anymore, make whatever assumptions or accusations you want I am completely finished bickering about religion with you.

I have proven Paul is, according to the Bible, a false prophet and you have unwittingly admitted it.

I have countered all your impotent arguments with scripture and logic based on scripture.

Just go be a Pauline and don't expect me to be conversing with someone as disreputable as you anytime soon.

a reply to: Malocchio

you have done nothing but reveal the truth of your own life, One that I outlined above, one that is not saved, not holy and not a follower of Christ.

Just go and be a good man and see how far being a good man will get you before God, who alone is good and no other. And that included me as well as you.

Matt 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.

Oh wait look in Mt 19:17 you are to go and keep the commandments. A little hard to do seeing most if not all those commandments are for Jews and strangers living in Israel and more importantly where the TEMPLE is in Jerusalem. You see you cannot keep Jesus word in this era. If you do you will die in your sin. There is no temple and you are not in Israel.

a reply to: Malocchio

You know when someone has rejected the word of God, where is their wisdom?

You and Matrixsurviver reject God's word as true and without error claiming it is corrupted. Yet you want to talk about the same words you reject. This is true hypocrisy.

You made a claim in one of your post on one of the threads that Paul was covetous and was taking from the church and instructed timothy to do the same. You furthermore claimed that Paul's teachings never agree with Jesus teachings. Now remember this is all futile on your part because you believe the Bible is inaccurate and corrupt, and I quote you,"The Bible IS corrupt". You have become god, in God's stead, in determining what is true in the Bible and what is not". You have as the serpent promised become a god.

you quoted these two verses

1Co 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1Ti 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

But because you did not know the Bible as you claim this teaching is in direct agreement with Jesus teaching when he sent forth not just 12 disciples to preach the Kingdom Gospel along with signs and wonders (which were signs of an apostle).

Mt 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

There is one thing we know about men in general and I have personally seen this in action, is that when it comes down to brass tacks a man will do anything to save his life. I know of some who did not want to die at the hand of a Muslim attacker convert to Islam. When he did they spared his life (this is not ISIS mind you). Men will do anything to save there lives. Paul was beaten to death by Pharisees and Sadducees, he was later given to the Romans by the very group you say he secretly worked for in bring a false gospel tot he world. When it came down to it. If he did work for them, all he had to do was call a secret meeting with them and get himself released so he could go about the work he was doing on their behalf. They would have never killed him or given him or when they found him in the temple if he had collaborated with them to mislead the world with a false teaching to the gentiles.

No man will die for a lie. A man will do anything to save his life. But Paul had given up his life to Christ, bearing in his body the marks of Christ, he became a prisoner to Christ where human chains bound the chains of Christ gave him freedom. Look how the Philippian jailer acted when the whole prison was shaken and every prisoner was freed yet not one not even Paul ran for their life.

No, I am sorry to say you and your whole concocted misrepresentation of Paul, your misunderstanding of the difference of the callings of the 12 and Paul, and the gospels they taught (which are different for a reason) has only taken you further away from the truth and simplicity that is in Christ Jesus.

I will not argue with you over a book you do not believe is true, whole, accurate and preserved for it is futile.

We know you cannot refute me with scriptures so you call me angry, bitter, hater, liar, hypocrite, bigot, racist, and defame me falsely constantly to whit I leave you to your own fleshly mind and duplicity, claiming the words of Jesus are true and accurate in any version but the rest of the Bible is corrupted and false.

I will never get over how a person who claims to be full of the spirit of God, would use such corrupt communication while trying to represent Jesus. Word's like "cr#p" and say things like, "the damn Bible doesn't even come close to showing who He truly is." or this, "If the God you think is real isn't satisfied with that, then he can kiss my a**." No this is a man that is showing his mind is not renewed. This in and of itself is a grieving of the very spirit you claim to have, and shows clearly you have no changed life and that your claim to know him is false.

When I was filled with the Holy Ghost I no longer spake that way because my whole life changed.

The very scriptures you reject say this about people who think they can with hearts know anything of God especially with a heart of unbelief in his word. Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

The proof of what you speak is not true is in your own words and life which all can see throughout this thread, a life is full of bitterness, anger, malice, lies, distortions, cursing, denying the very blood that bought you.

Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27 Neither give place to the devil.
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

What a wonderful and loving teaching Paul has given us from God on how a believer should act if in fact they are saved.

I leave you too your rantings but I will not allow you to misrepresent Paul, who by all accounts was much more Holier than you will ever be. And your own words judge you thus.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

HE said Keep MY commandments Chester... Not Keep Moses' commandments


There is a vast difference.... HE gave two

not 613

a reply to: Akragon

nope sorry you are also a denier of scripture as being true. You use it only to bolster your views while denying it any validity on its won.

Sorry my version says THE COMMANDMENTS. And if you look up the commandments in any bible program it all points to the commandments.

But how do you know it really is "his commandments" or "the commandments" when you deny it is preserved, true and without corruption.

You all claim to be logical but upon the issue of scriptures you all are illogical users of it.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Akragon

nope sorry you are also a denier of scripture as being true. You use it only to bolster your views while denying it any validity on its won.

Sorry my version says THE COMMANDMENTS. And if you look up the commandments in any bible program it all points to the commandments.

But how do you know it really is "his commandments" or "the commandments" when you deny it is preserved, true and without corruption.

You all claim to be logical but upon the issue of scriptures you all are illogical users of it.

Says Captain Illogical.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Akragon

nope sorry you are also a denier of scripture as being true. You use it only to bolster your views while denying it any validity on its won.

Sorry my version says THE COMMANDMENTS. And if you look up the commandments in any bible program it all points to the commandments.

But how do you know it really is "his commandments" or "the commandments" when you deny it is preserved, true and without corruption.

You all claim to be logical but upon the issue of scriptures you all are illogical users of it.

Sorry man that all or nothing crap doesn't work on me...

IF ye love me KEEP my commandments...

Theres two... You would know this if you got your head out of Pauls shtick

a reply to: Malocchio

I thought you weren't speaking to me any more. Just more proof of your untruthfulness.

Ditto to you General Illogical, for your logic in using scriptures when you don't believe them to be without corruption (i.e.except for the words of Jesus) is ok but my use of them is to you illogical.

Just throw your Bibles out and go and teach your junk without it. that is what a real bible denier would do.