Did Paul Invent Christianity?

a reply to: Akragon

Then you have become god in place of God deciding what is accurate and what is not, for you anyway. You truly had become a god just as Satan,the old serpent told Eve.

As for me I believe God preserved his words in one book for this generation as he promised and it is here to stay.

The problem is when I use it to prove you wrong and you all response with the scriptures are corrupt, in error or some other nonsense.

But when you use them they are all perfect and without fault.

That is hypocrisy, duplicity and wholly illogical.

Your reply shows your childishness and the fact you are with holiness of any kind.

Often Jesus reprimand of the Pharisees for reprimanding Jesus for washing his hands is used to justify the cancellation of Torah/Law.

The fact is that the Pharisees had an oral tradition about blessings God and washing their hands that still exists in the Talmud.

It was this oral Law that Jesus was against, the tradition that Moses 40 days/nights consisted of receiving an oral Torah and a written Torah/Law.

The Torah was the Constitution of Judea and irrevocable. By boiling it down to two commandments Jesus echoes Hillel who is recorded as saying just that.

The reprimand was strictly about oral law as there is no commandment about washing your hands in the Torah.

The oral tradition was from Babylon and a growing influence at the time that culminated in the Talmud, a sometimes vile book that is hard to get although I found most of it online through I rarely read it.

Just to learn about the Nazirites and certain other sects and histories.

Jesus didn't want to get rid of Torah observance in any way, he just taught how to interpret it properly.

Metaphorically, allegoricaly and with love.

Even if it portrays a wicked God named Yahweh I think Jesus Father was El Elyon as the only time he uses a Hebrew or Aramaic name for the God of the Jews it's Eloi, Eloi, which is El not Yahweh.

True Bible students know that Yahweh/Baal aka Lord is not El Elyon or, as he claims, El Shaddai.

I don't remember Abraham being told El Shaddai was his name but I remember El Elyon and his priest Melchizedek.

Now Melchizedek is a mystery and the bread and wine ritual may have been a cannabalistic rite and Melchizedek could mean Molech is righteous.

this after an aborted child sacrifice which was probably carried out in the original story and later edited.

The Bible has many secrets the Christian will never know unless he/she has an open mind, anathema to most of them.

Jesus was a proud Jew who wanted peace and to create Heaven on earth.

Only by learning his message and it's deeper philosophy that he says only some will be able to hear can you gain the Wisdom of the Holy Spirit.

It's all about the lamp that is the eye, it must be clean. The third eye.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

You are a seriously immature human being who is out of touch with reality.

I would love to cease communicating with you but you provide so much opportunity for proving that Paul is a false prophet.

Your behavior alone is proof that you are inept at debating in a gentlemanly fashion and I have utterly destroyed you without resorting to childish taunts and conspiracy theories.

It's right there for all to see and you have been unable to refute a single comment of mine and when you tried I destroyed your ridiculous argument in my usual scriptural fashion.

Taunting me only tells me that you feel defeated and feel a need for vengeance and since you can't Biblically outwit me you resort to school yard behavior.

This ain't recess son. My comments are meat and yours thin air, devoid of matter.

a reply to: Malocchio

Well my behaviour did not include cursing and blessings out of the same mouth and by it you have shown you are not worthy to judge Paul

James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

you're right it is all right there for all to see. That you are not worthy for them to give heed for even one hour.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Then you have become god in place of God deciding what is accurate and what is not, for you anyway. You truly had become a god just as Satan,the old serpent told Eve.

nonsense... its a book written by men... You just like trying to enforce your own rules on others

Well that don't fly with me bro...

As for me I believe God preserved his words in one book for this generation as he promised and it is here to stay.

Kinda sounds like you worship that verse...

You base your entire doctrine on it

The problem is when I use it to prove you wrong and you all response with the scriptures are corrupt, in error or some other nonsense.

I've said nothing of the sort... and you've said nothing to prove anything to me.... you just keep regurgitating the same things over and over... Your rules and all must adhere to them

I think not

But when you use them they are all perfect and without fault.

The doctrine of infallibility is a lie... plain and simple

Your reply shows your childishness and the fact you are with holiness of any kind.

uh huh.... judge me however you like...

It seems to be what you do best

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Then you have become god in place of God deciding what is accurate and what is not, for you anyway. You truly had become a god just as Satan,the old serpent told Eve.

nonsense... its a book written by men... You just like trying to enforce your own rules on others

Well that don't fly with me bro...

As for me I believe God preserved his words in one book for this generation as he promised and it is here to stay.

Kinda sounds like you worship that verse...

You base your entire doctrine on it

The problem is when I use it to prove you wrong and you all response with the scriptures are corrupt, in error or some other nonsense.

I've said nothing of the sort... and you've said nothing to prove anything to me.... you just keep regurgitating the same things over and over... Your rules and all must adhere to them

I think not

But when you use them they are all perfect and without fault.

The doctrine of infallibility is a lie... plain and simple

Your reply shows your childishness and the fact you are with holiness of any kind.

uh huh.... judge me however you like...

It seems to be what you do best

I see Chester has moved on to harassing you for not agreeing with every ridiculous misinterpretation of scripture he can muster.

My favorite ChesterJohn doctrine is:


The Gospel of the Kingdom was only for Jews, Goyim are under the ''gospel" of grace.

I call it the doctrine of division by race.

Of course it is the equivalent of admitting that there are two Gospels, which he has done, and two Gospels means one is false as any teaching not in agreement with the Apostles as John said is a false teaching.

The doctrine of the "Gospels of division of the word of truth" is another favorite scripture bastardization of his I find hilarious .

Based on a verse that 98% of English translations render not ''divide" but interpret or handle, which is correct, he has created a concept that is unheard of even in mainstream Christianity that he can't explain because if he he does he has to explain why people are being given different portions of the word of truth.

And what reason besides being Jewish could it be that causes this ''division" of the word of truth?

By height, weight? So Jews only are the recipients of the Kingdom of God Gospel while the Goyim are stuck with the "kingdom" of grace ''gospel?"

I thought Jesus mission was to preach his Gospel to "all nations, baptizing in the name of..."

He must have died when I pointed out his own false prophet's quote ''whether Jew or Greek" destroys his theory of a Jewish Gospel AND a seperate goyim gospel.

The plain truth is that the different Gospels are different because one came from the Messiah and the other from the prophecied and warned about (Matthew 24:23) false prophet.

The Gospels of the Kingdom of God is for all who don't reject it for the fake gospel of grace, a wacky human sacrifice cult that venerates mans incapability to earn God's ''salvation" without believing that Jesus death was a human sacrificial atonement for believers only, all others go to hell.

I will take the Kingdom of God over the ''gospel" of grace/human sacrifice/deification of a man as God/pagan-Judeo "with us or perish" anti Yeshua teachings that use his name to pass as a Judaic based faith.

I would rather be enlightened by the Holy Spirit than told ''knowlege puffs up" [makes arrogant] by a self righteous murderer, liar and hypocrite who boasts he was ''blameless."

I like knowledge. If all you ever read is Paul's epistles you end up like ChedsterJohn. Believing that you are pious while simultaneously mocking anyone who displays a more thorough knowledge of scripture in a repugnant attempt to discredit speakers of the truth.

I can only imagine that nobody takes him seriously and we are the only ones willing to point out (futilely) his multitudinous errors.

I just don't see how someone could claim to be a Christian and act like someone with no shame or conscience when it comes to making up conspiracy theories about ATS members that agree and that I am this apparently memorable Gnosticsfaith, both pure lies with no bones about it.

And not realize that they are a huge, undereducated Biblically, religious bully without the strength to accomplish their goals.

Churlish behavior does not behove the Christian trying to save Paul from permanent internet exposure as the:

False prophet we have proven him to be beyond a reasonable doubt.

I forgot about the equally ridiculous ''bad baptism" doctrine that Chester believed referred to hell until I educated him about Pentecost, at which point he claimed the Jews in entirety rejected the Holy Spirit as if the Apostles weren't Jewish and didn't receive the Holy Spirit by the promised Baptism of Fire at Pentecost.

To claim superior knowledge of scripture and not know that the Baptism of Fire was of the Holy Spirit, to call the work of the Holy Spirit, that Baptism of Fire at Pentecost, hellfire, is the most hilarious thing I have ever heard.

A bad Baptism!!!

How does one not know that the Holy Spirit was received as fire at Pentecost if one is knowledgeable about the Bible?

Only someone pretending to know scripture would make such an easily refutable claim such as to debase the Baptism of Fire as a punishment of hell.

I can't help but reiterate the hypocrisy of claiming superior understanding while not understanding the meaning of the Baptism of Fire spoken of by John the Baptist and described as the receiving of the Holy Spirit in the form of fire in Acts.

Obviously the true meaning of scripture has been buried under a heap of rubbish called Pauline ''theology" for a person who doesn't even know the book of Acts contents or the reason for the selection of only 12 Apostles.

I wonder if he knew that Israel had 12 tribes, that's the only thing I could think of being a good excuse for not knowing such a thing.

a reply to: Malocchio

Originally posted by Malocchio
I just wanted to add that a whole sub continent actually rejected him.

" This you know, all those who are in Asia have turned away from me."

So not only was Paul rejected by the 7 churches in Asia but it was well known to Timothy and probably many people outside of Asia, Paul was not a popular guy and from his attitude I can see why.

Yeah 7 churches, is a lot of churches; they can’t all have rejected Paul because of the shame of his chians. What are the odds…

Originally posted by Malocchio
Everything the guy does is disturbing, he is the false prophet of Matthew 24:23, of this I am sure.

It is baffling that people don't see this but then again you actually have to read it straight through to notice and most Christians actually have never done it.

Yes, and there’s also Matthew 7:15 regarding false prophets. Funny how Christians think those “Lord Lord” verses don’t apply to them but to some “other group”…

A key difference between Christianity and Jesus IMO is that Jesus actually teaches things which must be done in order to enter the Kingdom…such as doing the will of the Father, keeping the Commandments of God, and repenting for sins etc…

Pauls teachings are either a misunderstanding of Jesus true metaphoric teachings, or he hijacked the true teachings with his own slant/ideas…

Originally posted by Malocchio
What I don't get is why the Roman Church thought him the pre eminent apostle when he isn't even an Apostle and was not liked or trusted by the real Apostles, as is apparent in Acts and his letters.

Well, Paul used to kill and persecute Christians. But the thing is Rome was the Ruling authority and should have been at least aware of these persecutions taking place. I don’t believe the Roman authorities would have just let these things go on, without allowing it or authorizing it, which is bad either way…

Another thing, Jesus was a Nazarene which was one of the two major sects of the Essene community… So a big question which naturally arises is…why does Christianity not reflect all of the beliefs of the Nazarenes, the ones who Paul was accused of hanging out with at his trial…?

Paul admitted that he had associated with them; but if that’s the case and he knew their teachings, then he should have carried those same teachings over into Christianity…but that’s not what happened…


- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

I agree with almost everything you said.

One thing, the Nazarenes were actually the people of the Dead Sea Scrolls as were the Ebionites and the name The Way.

There is no question that the beliefs of Christianity come from this xenophobic group of freedom fighters who refused to submit to Rome.

Whatever became of the Nazarenes with Jesus they had absolutely nothing to do with the Essenes. The truth is that the Essenes may be a fabrication entirely or if Philo actually wrote about them in "All good men are free" the description of peace loving vegetarians doesn't square with the Dead Sea Scrolls violent ambitions laid out in the War Scroll.

I don't know how to square the peaceful Nazarenes and Ebionites with the Xenophobic Zaddikim that were a united sect or square it with Jesus.

I just no for certain that the Essenes were not related to the Nazarenes. It's a common theory but the Nazarenes are mentioned in the Scrolls the Essenes were not and were too peaceful to be a member of that community.

The Essenes were related to the Egyptian Theraputae though, both are phantasms of history though.

The Talmud makes no mention of the Essenes, only Philo and Josephus. And Philo may have been writing of the Jesseans.

a reply to: Malocchio

Originally posted by Malocchio
I agree with almost everything you said.

One thing, the Nazarenes were actually the people of the Dead Sea Scrolls as were the Ebionites and the name The Way.

There is no question that the beliefs of Christianity come from this xenophobic group of freedom fighters who refused to submit to Rome.


Whatever became of the Nazarenes with Jesus they had absolutely nothing to do with the Essenes. The truth is that the Essenes may be a fabrication entirely or if Philo actually wrote about them in "All good men are free" the description of peace loving vegetarians doesn't square with the Dead Sea Scrolls violent ambitions laid out in the War Scroll.

I don't know how to square the peaceful Nazarenes and Ebionites with the Xenophobic Zaddikim that were a united sect or square it with Jesus.

I just no for certain that the Essenes were not related to the Nazarenes. It's a common theory but the Nazarenes are mentioned in the Scrolls the Essenes were not and were too peaceful to be a member of that community.

The Essenes were related to the Egyptian Theraputae though, both are phantasms of history though.

The Talmud makes no mention of the Essenes, only Philo and Josephus. And Philo may have been writing of the Jesseans.

Thanks for the information, maybe the Nazarenes being Essenes is not correct…but it is a commonly held theory…

But either way, the fact that Paul was accused of associating with the Nazarenes at his trail, meant that Rome already saw them and their teachings as a some kind of a threat.

Problem is, Pauls teachings and Christianity don’t reflect/match that of the Nazarenes beliefs overall…which is rather strange if Paul spent time learning from them…

It just doesn’t add up…


- JC

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

How do you define free NOW?

I define it, "freedom from religion and the bondage it puts on an individual. I understand completely now, that when Jesus said, "the truth shall make you free"....He was talking about being free from man's indoctrination, and those that seek to control others through fear.
There is a cosmic law in effect in this world. Just like Jesus said, "that which you sow, you will also reap".
You don't need Paul or anyone to tell you how to behave. It's already inside us.
Jesus came to "set the captives free". Free from what? Free from the blindness and control that religious "higher ups" put on us...because they want to keep that power.
Paul was dang good at putting everyone on a guilt trip...and making them AFRAID of the wrath of "god".
How can one love a being they are afraid of?
What? Is our choice, submit or burn? Love me or suffer eternal torment? What kind of deity would put that on someone? A deity that has the power to make it different?
I'm sorry, dude. But, that's just messed up.
I am not perfect, nor will I ever be. But, I do know this....I strive to be better and to take care of those around me. If that's not good enough, then I don't know what to tell you.
Jesus did set me free. He set me free from the lies of this world and this messed up matrix we live in.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

You have as the serpent promised become a god.

Why? Because we both reject Paul? Or, is it because we reject parts of the Bible?
What is YOUR God....God or the Bible? I thought all one has to do is believe in Jesus. So, if we both do, then how are we both believing the serpent, Chester?

you quoted these two verses

1Co 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1Ti 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Hey, I suggest you go cross reference where Paul took those verses from. YHWH was pretty much talking about not "muzzling an ox when it was treading the grain (or doing physical labor for a human). It had NOTHING to do with getting paid for preaching the gospel (of Paul). Though, Paul (once again) took something from the Torah and twisted it to fit his doctrine. That probably doesn't matter to you, though.


What Jesus said in Matthew 10, is that if the disciples were going out to spread the gospel that JESUS taught and taught them to do the same....then, they could be given food and lodging. It's basically just accepting hospitality. Not a huge building and to pay a pastor.... or the electric bill, or tithing, or all the other stuff that "churches" want you to support. (as they write everything off on their 503 C)
Remember? Jesus told them (and us) that HE WAS OUR TEACHER and the Holy SPIRIT would remind us of all things He taught. He also said, "freely you have received, freely give".

No man will die for a lie.

Are you serious? Cause people die for "lies" every minute of every day. Paul isn't special . Plus, he covered his own butt by calling on Roman authorities to save him when he was in the hot seat....basically using his Roman citizenship to get out of the bind he was in after enraging the priesthood. So, where was his loyalty to Christ and giving his life for Him then?

We know you cannot refute me with scriptures so you call me angry, bitter, hater, liar, hypocrite, bigot, racist, and defame me falsely constantly to whit I leave you to your own fleshly mind and duplicity, claiming the words of Jesus are true and accurate in any version but the rest of the Bible is corrupted and false.

Um, I actually didn't call you any of those things. You need to practice your reading comprehension skills.

I will never get over how a person who claims to be full of the spirit of God, would use such corrupt communication while trying to represent Jesus. Word's like "cr#p" and say things like, "the damn Bible doesn't even come close to showing who He truly is." or this, "If the God you think is real isn't satisfied with that, then he can kiss my a**." No this is a man that is showing his mind is not renewed. This in and of itself is a grieving of the very spirit you claim to have, and shows clearly you have no changed life and that your claim to know him is false.

Sigh....CRAP is a bad word? Oh my. I don't have perfect language, so I must not truly know God. You should spend some time in AA. They are some of the most spiritual people I've ever met.....and they cuss their arses off, lol. Yet,
they believe in a "higher power" that apparently doesn't give a rat's butt about their "colorful language". You know why?
Because they are desperate and RAW....and it's apparently "ok" with God. Since, you know, they had a freaking miracle happen to them and they are sober.

When I was filled with the Holy Ghost I no longer spake that way because my whole life changed.

Awesome. Now, how do you get around the fact that you don't act like Jesus any more than any one else in thid crazy, messed up world? Did Paul give you a freebie pass on your despicable, judgmental, behavior.

The very scriptures you reject say this about people who think they can with hearts know anything of God especially with a heart of unbelief in his word. Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

So, my heart is "desperately wicked"? Ok, I have a question for you. Would you stop eating animals? If not, then why do you think it's alright to hurt a sentient being, just because you like the way it tastes? I mean, if it came down to not harming something that can FEEL pain, just like you or me, would you still choose to do so?
My heart tells me it's wrong. So, is my heart desperately wicked for thinking that?

The proof of what you speak is not true is in your own words and life which all can see throughout this thread, a life is full of bitterness, anger, malice, lies, distortions, cursing, denying the very blood that bought you.

Jesus didn't "BUY ME"....that's all Paul's crap. Oops! I said "crap" again, lol I guess I better watch out for a lightning strike about now.
So, let me ask you....have you shown any hint of "bitterness, anger,or malice while answering on this thread?
Oh.... I forgot, you get to act anyway you want, yet you are covered by "the blood of Jesus", so it doesn't matter how awful you act.

What a wonderful and loving teaching Paul has given us from God on how a believer should act if in fact they are saved.

That's just downright comical. So, when Paul said, "turn that one over to Satan, to teach him not to blaspheme"....was that a "wonderful example"? It must be, since that's exactly how you treat anyone who disagrees with the inerracy of Scripture...and see's Paul for what he is, lol.

I leave you too your rantings but I will not allow you to misrepresent Paul, who by all accounts was much more Holier than you will ever be. And your own words judge you thus.

Oh, so it's YOUR job to represent God? It's YOUR job to stick up for Paul?
And if Paul is supposed to be my "standard for holiness", then I think I'll pass, lol.
Besides, I know I'm supposed to listen to Jesus.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Those are noble ideals, Miss Matrixsurvivor.

I know we share different perspectives on Paul, though I wish you all the best.Life can be very challenging, I don't feel there are any lessons one can't learn given time and experience.The only hell I believe in, is the one we make for ourselves when we behave contrary to our higher nature.I feel the same way about fear, it tends to restrict our creativity and shut down our vision.Love is a kinder teacher.

Thanks for the response, I was curious about what you had to say.

Peace

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Those are noble ideals, Miss Matrixsurvivor.

I know we share different perspectives on Paul, though I wish you all the best.Life can be very challenging, I don't feel there are any lessons one can't learn given time and experience.The only hell I believe in, is the one we make for ourselves when we behave contrary to our higher nature.I feel the same way about fear, it tends to restrict our creativity and shut down our vision.Love is a kinder teacher.

Thanks for the response, I was curious about what you had to say.

Peace

Thank you. I agree. Love IS a kinder teacher. You know, I was filled with the HS at 23 yrs of age. It was so mind blowing it's hard to describe. But the ONE thing I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt....was that whatever it was....LOVED ME more than I could even fathom. All I wanted to do was share that with other people.
I SAW so differently. Even colors around me were more vivid. Nature was more beautiful.
Also, there's no way that WHO I experienced would want animals sacrificed....ever. I felt like I was in this "cocoon" of God for over two weeks. I think God had to let me back down on the planet, so I could actually get something done, lol. Otherwise, I'd have been sitting out in the grass looking at all the pretty flowers, lol.

The past twenty years has been good...and not good. Such is life. The frustration you hear from me, is from all the lies I've realized.....in Christianity and the Bible itself. It's not even at anyone in particular (except maybe Paul and YHWH).
I spent many years involved in church. Now, there are good people there...people I forged close friendships with.
Now, I don't have much in common with them.

The other thing I've realized is, no matter how close of friends you think you are with "Christian friends"....if you challenge their belief system (or simply say what you truly think), you will get one of two reactions...."fight or flight". Then, they will avoid you. You see...there IS no freedom in Christianity. You either act, sound, and believe like everyone else, or you will be rejected. That's not Jesus, friend....not at all.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

It is futile to argue over what the Bible says, because you don't believe that is it without corruption, or that God kept his word to preserve it to every generation forever.

It was clear why I said you became gods by Your rejection of the word of God as preserved and not corrupted, so you must decide according to your fleshly mind what is God's word and what is not. But you have no way of proving if you are correct or in error because you have nothing but corruption to work with.

There are many like yourselves even of mainline Christian religions that don't believe the word of God as preserved and come up with all sorts of reasons to fleece the flock of the churches of God for filthy lucre. But that does not make the similarities any different.

You comprehension is limited to what You infer onto the scriptures as I stated you all pretext the scripture by taking it out of it's context, also you infer emotional states and intonation of speech where you can't because you lack eye contact and body language with Paul. And once again it comes down to believing the word of God in preserved or not, of which you deny it is not corrupted.

Actually this reply was to Malocchino and not you even if you were mention in it. But you both have always had a problem to read someone elses mail as if it were to you. That is evident by how you read the Bile taking stuff for Israel and trying to make it for you. That is called "Replacement Theology" putting your self in place where it is clearly only for Israel, like with the Gospel of the kingdom. This is one of the reasons along with unbelief in a preserved word of God as to why you come to wrong conclusions with the scriptures.

Who are you are to judge me? Do not you know that by judging me you will be judged also by the same as you judge me with except it will be concentrated.

Luke 6:37 ¶ Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Te give there is in the context of Judgement. I can judge for correctly because oft he Holy Ghost that changed my life.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Are you so sure my behavior is despicable and judgemental, again you judge incorrectly it is the words of God that make the judgement not mine.

All of our hearts are desperately wicked. That is why we do not use our hearts or trust in them when it comes to the word of God we must trust the Holy Ghost.

You may be a vegetarian all you want but the command to comes from God

Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

The guideline is that no flesh/raw meat with its blood be eaten. Hey that is what the elders decreed in Acts 15 and there was no Israel yet just Gentiles in Genesis 9. I will not judge you for your choice to not eat meat. I do not myself kill any animal and when I do I do it humanly.

By his blood we are cleansed

Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
1John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Cleanings, purging and forgiveness come by the blood of Christ and is taught not only of Paul but of John. But I think it futile seeing your don't believe the Bible is without error and that it is corrupt.

There are some like yourselves who need to be turned over to the one who will rake you over the coals of your conscience so that you may not blasphemy against God and the Holy Ghost, as you have so many times.

Again it is God's word you reject so why are you attempting to argue over that which you believe is not true?

We, that is Christians, are in Christ stead reconciling the world onto him for he has given us this ministry for today. But there are many who will not be reconciled, which comes by the blood of Christ

2Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

a reply to: Akragon

You see Akragon, How can two walk together if they do not agree.

You do not believe the Bible is the word of God and I do believe it is all his words.

We cannot come to any agreement so why waste you time arguing over it with me. Just post you belief and go on with your life. But don't use the bible to prove anything because you don't believe it anyway.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

It is futile to argue over what the Bible says, because you don't believe that is it without corruption, or that God kept his word to preserve it to every generation forever.

I don't think it's futile. I think it's important to point out the corruption in it, esp. when it comes to Paul...who's letters trump Jesus' words constantly.

It was clear why I said you became gods by Your rejection of the word of God as preserved and not corrupted, so you must decide according to your fleshly mind what is God's word and what is not. But you have no way of proving if you are correct or in error because you have nothing but corruption to work with.

Sooooo, trusting the HOLY SPIRIT (the one who IS the Spirit of TRUTH) is "having nothing but corruption to work with??"

Actually this reply was to Malocchino and not you even if you were mention in it. But you both have always had a problem to read someone elses mail as if it were to you. That is evident by how you read the Bile taking stuff for Israel and trying to make it for you. That is called "Replacement Theology" putting your self in place where it is clearly only for Israel, like with the Gospel of the kingdom. This is one of the reasons along with unbelief in a preserved word of God as to why you come to wrong conclusions with the scriptures.

Supersessionism, also called replacement theology or fulfillment theology, is a Christian theological view on the current status of the church in relation to the Jewish people and Judaism.[1] It holds that the Christian Church has succeeded the Israelites as the definitive people of God[1][2][3] or that the New Covenant has replaced or superseded the Mosaic covenant.[4] From a supersessionist's "point of view, just by continuing to exist [outside the Church], the Jews dissent".[5] This view directly contrasts with dual-covenant theology which holds that the Mosaic covenant remains valid for Jews.
Chester, the only person on here who's pushing "Replacement Theology" is YOU. You are the person who is saying that the Kingdom Gospel of the Son of Man, and His commandments....have been REPLACED by Paul's false gospel of grace.

Who are you are to judge me? Do not you know that by judging me you will be judged also by the same as you judge me with except it will be concentrated. Te give there is in the context of Judgement. I can judge for correctly because oft he Holy Ghost that changed my life.
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1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Ahhhh.....more Paul. So, YOU can judge, because you have the "Holy Ghost" and are "spiritual, who can judge all things"...but can't be judged of anyone (man)...since Paul's says so. Got it.

You may be a vegetarian all you want but the command to comes from God

Yea, I know....the command comes from God to eat them....and to sacrifice them for sins (in the Torah) and if you fast forward to today, it's lead to the humongous factory farming industry, which is so evil and despicable, I can't even stomach it.
But, I know....you have nothing to do with that (unless you buy your meat at the local grocery store, which is from factory farmed animals). But, hey.....YOU aren't participating in that. Guess you hunt instead.

Again it is God's word you reject so why are you attempting to argue over that which you believe is not true?

Once again, I reject PAUL'S epistles....and don't believe YHWH is the true MOST HIGH God. However, I don't reject Jesus or the Holy Spirit (which IS the Spirit of truth and wisdom). She is what allows me to see through Paul, and to know when something is wrong or evil (like ordering animals to be sacrificed), in that Book you worship.

There are some like yourselves who need to be turned over to the one who will rake you over the coals of your conscience so that you may not blasphemy against God and the Holy Ghost, as you have so many times.

Annnndd, that quote right there is so revealing.....Jesus didn't "turn people over to Satan". He set them free.

We, that is Christians, are in Christ stead reconciling the world onto him for he has given us this ministry for today. But there are many who will not be reconciled, which comes by the blood of Christ

The Holy Spirit can handle that just fine. She doesn't need obnoxious Christians condemning people, or spouting Pauline doctrine to them. She will lead them to the Son, and to HIS teachings and Words (which ultimately are the Father's).

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Akragon

You see Akragon, How can two walk together if they do not agree.

You do not believe the Bible is the word of God and I do believe it is all his words.

We cannot come to any agreement so why waste you time arguing over it with me. Just post you belief and go on with your life. But don't use the bible to prove anything because you don't believe it anyway.

This thread isn't about my beliefs...

I only stepped in to correct you on things you should already know

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

the futility is in your not believing that Bible is preserved, whole, completely true, and without corruption. So it is futile.

Your want to use scriptures you do not believe to be true to prove a point to be true from a book that you do not believe is true. Making that which you want to be true because you have made yourself god in God's stead to determine what is God's word and what is not, what is true and what is not.

this is what this whole thread comes down to, that YOUR opinion on what is true in the word of God and what is not true is all that matters. But if anyone disagrees you say they don't have the spirit of God, they are not following Jesus, or some other nonsense.

The word of God is for them who want to grow in the knowledge of God. The word of God is to be come to with a humble heart yearning to learn from God, not coming to it to judge God or to say what you feel in your heart is true or false, what is God's word or what is not.

So until you can come to the point to where you can say that ALL of God's words are true from beginning to the end you will never have any assurance on any subject because there is always the question. It could be wrong because it is corrupted and written by men.

a reply to: Akragon

But what you think I should already know goes against what the word of God says.

you do not want to accept God's word where it speaks plainly and so you say "men wrote the Bible" or "it is corrupted by men"

Who should I believe?

God who promised and preserved his words to this generation forever?

Or You who says the word of God was just written by men?

My grievance is this.

How can people who do not believe God is powerful enough to keep his word and preserve his words to every generation forever, then want to argue over those words when they have no assurety that what they FEEL is correct is actually correct at all?

As far as they know they could be wrong. We have only one truth to judge all things by and that is the word of God. If it is not preserved for us then we have no assurance of anything to be true because it could have been corrupted by men.

I stand on God's promised and preserved word and when anyone disagrees with it and says it is wrong. I know they are wrong and God's word is true.

Ps 119:160 ¶ Thy word [is] true [from] the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments [endureth] for ever.