Atheists object to Christmas toy drive on Air Force base – and win

a reply to: MystikMushroom

As long as poor kids get their toys I couldn't care less if someone used a private server or ignored ethics laws or whatever. The Flying Spaghetti Monster himself could be the one giving the toys out. Hell, if Satan wanted to do it I wouldn't care - as long as the kids got some bloody toys.

In the end, as a result of this, poor kids won't get some toys on Christmas.

a reply to: Annee

Yup! And like I said...Christians someday might be glad its there, as who knows what'll happen in 50-100+ years.

Fighting for neutrality isn't an attack on someone else. That's like saying "waging a war on me for peace!" or something, lol -- it doesn't make much sense when you really think about it!

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Kryties

And I feel bad for the kids -- I do, it's kind of stupid that someone got offended enough to make a big deal about it and get it cancelled. But....rules are rules...And rules are especially important for the military, once you start bending one here or one there...

As I've said - - the Air Force has a history of this. A history of forcing Christianity and being sued.

They should have known better. There never should have been anything to stop.

This should never have happened in the first place.

Yet, some want to put all the blame on those who say "stop" - - - instead of the original perpetrator that should have known better.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Kryties

And I feel bad for the kids -- I do, it's kind of stupid that someone got offended enough to make a big deal about it and get it cancelled. But....rules are rules...And rules are especially important for the military, once you start bending one here or one there...

And as a result a lot of poor and underprivileged children will not get something on Christmas to make their lives just that little brighter. I think that is an absolute disgrace.

The toy drive was not cancelled.

originally posted by: Kryties.

In the end, as a result of this, poor kids won't get some toys on Christmas.

The toy drive was not cancelled.

a reply to: Kryties

I'd like to believe that they've found an alternative method for collecting and delivering toys. I know I'd try to set something up if it was my toy drive that got shut down.

Fingers crossed, because I do agree on a fundamental level with you about kids and toys. Kids don't care who the organizer prays to. The kids see Sponge Bob and that's all they care about.

Its us stupid adults who get in the way and make things complicated, meanwhile the kids are the ones paying the price.

So yeah, I do understand and see where you're coming from. If everyone felt like you and "didn't care" -- the government probably could allow religious-based emails to be sent.

Sadly, not everyone is like you and I.

a reply to: DelMarvel

Yes, I know that. No need to repeat yourself mate.

It would be, were certain people, including in this thread, allowed to have a say.

originally posted by: Kryties
a reply to: MystikMushroom

As long as poor kids get their toys I couldn't care less if someone used a private server or ignored ethics laws or whatever. The Flying Spaghetti Monster himself could be the one giving the toys out. Hell, if Satan wanted to do it I wouldn't care - as long as the kids got some bloody toys.

In the end, as a result of this, poor kids won't get some toys on Christmas.

I'm sure they will...

But what if your SQ Commander told everyone to participate and you decided not to, and you didn't get promoted the next time around? Even if you didn't deserve the promotion you would most likely think it was due to you not participating, but in the end the word Christmas is not the issue it was the SQ Commander officially endorsing his command to participate, the actual name of it is moot, just spin to promote the story.

a reply to: DelMarvel

I can absolutely agree with that. However, without the exact text of the email, there's no way to know what was said or exactly how it was said.

The article said there was "...an absolutely unambiguous endorsement of OCC."

If that endorsement was only indicated by the phrase, "...GREAT VOLUNTEER OPPORTUNITY!!!", then I don't see what the problem was. Endorsing something by saying it's a great opportunity is not an endorsement of religion.

Even if the email contained information on what OCC was about, I don't see anything indicating that religion was endorsed. Only the opportunity to volunteer was endorsed.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Annee

They can collect toys all year long.

They just can't do it in the name of a specific religion.

If its about the kids - - - the religious need to back off. But, they don't. Their God is more important then the kids.

Why not? Their religion is what they associate with and they are the ones doing the drive. As I said, you can then apply this logic to say Blacks can not have African American in the name of their toy drive, or Vets for toys and so on.....

Im convinced that the christians really don't understand this.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Kryties

Fingers crossed, because I do agree on a fundamental level with you about kids and toys. Kids don't care who the organizer prays to. The kids see Sponge Bob and that's all they care about.

Its us stupid adults who get in the way and make things complicated, meanwhile the kids are the ones paying the price.

Yep, exactly. Innocent kids getting the short end of the stick because adults want to play politics with Christmas presents.

Sadly, not everyone is like you and I.

And that is very unfortunate indeed.

originally posted by: Annee
The Air Force has a long history of forcing Christianity.

They've been taken to court more then once.

I support Separation of Church and State 100%.

They wanna collect toys? Don't call it Christmas.

Yeah, how dare kids be poor and how dare people want to give them a gift now and then and how dare those people do it on certain days of the year.

If atheists want to prove a point, then why don't you stop spitting on everyone else's fun and go start your own charity day in the middle of June which has no special attachments I am aware of? Then the kids could get something special, just cause, and you could make yourselves caring and compassionate and do good instead of ruining everyone's lives just because you don't like the idea that inspired it.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Kryties

I'd like to believe that they've found an alternative method for collecting and delivering toys. I know I'd try to set something up if it was my toy drive that got shut down.

I'm going to keep repeating myself as long as I keep seeing people posting misinformation.

The toy drive WAS NOT SHUT DOWN.

It is run by a private, national religious charity. There is no need for an "alternate method" for delivering the toys because nothing has changed. The toy drive has nothing to do with the Air Force. No one involved in this case was advocating that the toy drive be shut down.

This is off topic, but I'm curious as to whether I'm the only one experiencing this:

I am seeing rainbow lines through all of the posts on this thread. It occurs on every page of this thread. It's just happening in this thread. I captured a screen shot to prove I'm not just seeing things...

originally posted by: DelMarvel

I'm going to keep repeating myself as long as I keep seeing people posting misinformation.

The toy drive WAS NOT SHUT DOWN.

WE HEARD YOU THE FIRST TIME!!!

You completely missed the point of what he was ACTUALLY saying though.

a reply to: DelMarvel

So? It was kept off the base. So in effect, it was shut down.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Annee
The Air Force has a long history of forcing Christianity.

They've been taken to court more then once.

I support Separation of Church and State 100%.

They wanna collect toys? Don't call it Christmas.

Yeah, how dare kids be poor and how dare people want to give them a gift now and then and how dare those people do it on certain days of the year.

Yep, you go right ahead and limit what kids get what from whom and when.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Im convinced that the christians really don't understand this.

I think most average Christians do understand this. As I said in another post, Most that is bad with religion is the part that has been politicized, and it is really no longer a religion.

originally posted by: Annee

Yep, you go right ahead and limit what kids get what from whom and when.

Thats exactly what it seems YOU would like to do, given everything you have said in this thread - including not answering my question, instead actively AVOIDING doing so.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: DelMarvel

I can absolutely agree with that. However, without the exact text of the email, there's no way to know what was said or exactly how it was said.

The article said there was "...an absolutely unambiguous endorsement of OCC."

If that endorsement was only indicated by the phrase, "...GREAT VOLUNTEER OPPORTUNITY!!!", then I don't see what the problem was. Endorsing something by saying it's a great opportunity is not an endorsement of religion.

Even if the email contained information on what OCC was about, I don't see anything indicating that religion was endorsed. Only the opportunity to volunteer was endorsed.

This is exactly what was said:

"Our goal is to fill 5,000+ shoe boxes to be sent around the world as a way to show children in desperate situations that God loves and values them. Many of these children have never received a gift before. Many have never heard of God's incredible free Gift of Salvation through His Son. But a simple gift, a shoebox packed and prayed for by you could give a child hope and eternal security. Come, partner with us and CCA, be a 'missionary' filling shoebox gifts and praying over them with us"

Clearly an endorsement of religion and sent by someone who reportedly had a long history of using her office to proselytize.