The Fox News 'War On Christmas' Panic Is Already Starting

a reply to: MystikMushroomChristmas has been under attack for years and your head would have to be in the sand not to see that many seek to remove it from everything and starting with schools is an easy target.

Are we really supposed to believe that your heathen friends are the poster children for non belief and whatever they do is considered the epitome of atheism. I am just giving you a hard time but denial is a lonely river.

originally posted by: misskat1
It is a "Christmas Show"? So, maybe they shouldnt have a "Christmas" show. So, should it be just limited to Santa and Raindeer type stuff? I mean it is a "Christmas" show. The whole Jesus birthday thing is the reason for the season, so I guess they should trim the tree and disallow parts of the "Christmas" story?

That is religion also

The modern figure of Santa Claus is derived from the Dutch figure of Sinterklaas, whose name is a dialectal pronunciation of Saint Nicholas, the historical Greek bishop and gift-giver of Myra. During the Christianization of Germanic Europe, this figure may have absorbed elements of the god Odin, who was associated with the Germanic pagan midwinter event of Yule and led the Wild Hunt, a ghostly procession through the sky.
Santa Claus is generally depicted as a portly, joyous, white-bearded man—sometimes with spectacles—wearing a red coat with white collar and cuffs, white-cuffed red trousers, and black leather belt and boots and who carries a bag full of gifts for children. Images of him rarely have a beard with no moustache. This image became popular in the United States and Canada in the 19th century due to the significant influence of the 1823 poem "A Visit From St. Nicholas" and of caricaturist and political cartoonist Thomas Nast

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: deadeyedick

Is it really a "war" or being attacked? Is anyone being forbidden from celebrating Christmas?

Schools are funded by the government, and the government is supposed to stay neutral when it comes to religion.

If shop keepers and businesses want to remove Christian winter worship from their stores, that is their decision. These decisions are motivated by profit.

You can't just claim there is a war on you and your beliefs simply because society is more diverse. This "war" business is nothing but sensationalized self-victimization perpetuated by media outlets using fear to boost ratings.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

And considering Xmas is still the #1 holiday in the West, Europe along with 65 to 70 percent of people identifying as Christian..

I'm sort of at a loss to find this 'war on Christmas' as well.

~Tenth

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I'd say the actual war on Christmas is Christians themselves trying to own it, define it, bring it back to the church, etc.

Separation of Church and a State is not a war on Christmas.

Christmas never belonged exclusively to Jesus, despite the name.

Christmas is a mix of many traditions beginning with Pagans. It belongs to everyone.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Strawman tactics? That's rich coming from you.

Arguments have been made along those lines repeatedly by those who say the same things you do.

You can't squirm out of it that easily. And don't pretend that you're against prayer in school, after all ...

"If they don't want to pray to Jesus, they don't have to, right? They can just stand there in silence."

Nothing wrong with that, right?

Wrong.

THE EVENT IS HAPPENING ON SCHOOL PROPERTY IS CONDUCTED BY SCHOOL OFFICIALS!

That is not "a choice."

I've addressed your statements repeatedly. You keep desperately trying to make it about attendance at the event ...

THE ISSUE IS THE EVENT ITSELF!

WHAT IT IS
WHERE IT IS BEING HELD
WHO IS HOLDING IT

Don't even pretend that you are the one being ignored here.

You were quick to disagree with Ramadan being imposed on the school ... but you're STILL arguing for the Christmas Nativity Scene!

Your argument is utterly hypocritical.

Still straw man tactics. Blatantly.

I am not against prayer in school. Unless you don't want to. You don't have to. But if you want to you should be able to.

My statement on Ramadan was that I would not participate in it but I would not stop anyone else from participating in it.

An equivalent situation here is if a public school decided to celebrate Ramadan and not serve food in the cafeteria during lunch. Don't like it? You can bring food from home if you want to. And have verses from the Koran read over the PA system during school hours. Don't like it? Why should that bother you? You're not "participating," right?

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Yes there are attacks.

It is a long drawn out war against two groups that have been fighting for eons.

If the left has their way then all Christmas and other holidays of their choosing totally removed from society.

After the current battle I can just here them coming after Christmas next by stopping stores from selling items.

They will claim it is perfectly legal for them to stop such because said store got gov. funds or they make some mundane connection to the gov. and then extend the old phrase separation of... The whole time they would claim the constitution and how the holyday is hurting them and society has changed.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: MystikMushroom

I'd say the actual war on Christmas is Christians themselves trying to own it, define it, bring it back to the church, etc.

Separation of Church and a State is not a war on Christmas.

Christmas never belonged exclusively to Jesus, despite the name.

Christmas is a mix of many traditions beginning with Pagans. It belongs to everyone.

It is good to see that you can bring humor to the table.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Nope, no strawmen here. You just don't like your arguments read back to you. I can't help you there.

So, you'd be fine with a Christian prayer led in school? After all the Jewish/Muslim/Wiccan/Atheist/Buddhist kids can just ... what stand there and wait?

Because surely you're not trying to imply that Christian kids can't pray now ... that's too ridiculous. Anyone can pray to whatever they pray to. No, the kid can't disrupt class with a sudden "prayer emergency" but they can pray and worship Jesus anytime they wish.

You keep wanting to make the question about FREEDOM. (And that actually IS a strawman argument, but we won't bother with that.)

This is not about FREEDOM, again, it is about a RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCE/RITUAL being conducted ON SCHOOL PROPERTY by SCHOOL OFFICIALS.

FREEDOM means the kids can go to their churches and stage nativity scenes to their little heart's content.

FREEDOM means the parents/administrators can rent banquet halls, conference rooms, auditoriums that are available for private rental (on private property) and stage Living Nativity Scenes, Tent Revivals, Baptisms in Washtubs ... what the heck ever they think is part of their Christianity.

FREEDOM DOES NOT MEAN THEY CAN DO ANY OF THAT ON PUBLIC PROPERTY WITH PUBLIC RESOURCES ORGANIZED BY PUBLIC OFFICIALS.

Democracy is not a feature of religion. Democracy is also not the opposite of communism.

One is a form of government; one is a form of economy.

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: MystikMushroom

I'd say the actual war on Christmas is Christians themselves trying to own it, define it, bring it back to the church, etc.

Separation of Church and a State is not a war on Christmas.

Christmas never belonged exclusively to Jesus, despite the name.

Christmas is a mix of many traditions beginning with Pagans. It belongs to everyone.

It is good to see that you can bring humor to the table.

Whatever. Better then nonsense.

I grew up Christian in a mostly Christian neighborhood.

So, don't think you have something up on me. You don't.

a reply to: deadeyedick

You can't remove it from society if people still practice that religion. No one is outlawing Christianity and locking people in jail for Jesus fish emblems on their vehicles.

If you want to have a manger scene on your property, go ahead -- just don't be surprised when your local mall decides not to have one as not everyone is Christian and cares to see it.

a reply to: MystikMushroom
You are wrong and naive.

Makes me wonder if you all down play change because you can not see the effects and methods or if you all genuinely do not have the capacity to think like an evil genius.

It is very possible and many among the group desire to see such happen.

It is no different than the fact that people out there right now want everyone of us dead and the only thing stopping them is our will to live. Until someones plans to kill us come through then we can down play the threat and claim the person does not have the means. Then one day we turn up dead and everyone questions what could have been done to save us.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: MystikMushroom

I'd say the actual war on Christmas is Christians themselves trying to own it, define it, bring it back to the church, etc.

Separation of Church and a State is not a war on Christmas.

Christmas never belonged exclusively to Jesus, despite the name.

Christmas is a mix of many traditions beginning with Pagans. It belongs to everyone.

It is good to see that you can bring humor to the table.

Whatever. Better then nonsense.

I grew up Christian in a mostly Christian neighborhood.

So, don't think you have something up on me. You don't.

Just because I think all your outlook and inability to see truth is severely lacking does not mean I feel superior.

So no I do not think I have something up on you but I do think your comment was a joke.

I mean the line about jesus and how the name Christmas does not belong to him even though Christian. that is gold

Truth is that I would be happy celebrating more holydays but I have found none I can enjoy.

Find something as cool as an old man climbing down chimneys and a rabbit laying chocolate eggs and many will get on board.

but do not help those to remove what little joy we have as a whole because a small few claim to be joyless.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Being a bit dramatic, don't ya think? The very people that want to ensure separation of church and state, such as myself, are also those that will stand up for your right to practice whatever religion you wish.

The government is designed to be secular so that it does encroach on the freedoms of individuals. For many years Christianity has been favored over all other religions and now that the population has evolved to a point where religion is not as much a factor in their daily lives, many have taken notice of this "favorite status" and wish to ensure all beliefs are protected by not allowing the government (schools) to act in a way that does so.

No one is going to come kill you or other Christians. You are still free to believe what you want to believe. But it has no place in the public square. It belongs in your homes and your churches.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Yes there are attacks.

It is a long drawn out war against two groups that have been fighting for eons.

If the left has their way then all Christmas and other holidays of their choosing totally removed from society.

After the current battle I can just here them coming after Christmas next by stopping stores from selling items.

They will claim it is perfectly legal for them to stop such because said store got gov. funds or they make some mundane connection to the gov. and then extend the old phrase separation of... The whole time they would claim the constitution and how the holyday is hurting them and society has changed.

???? this wasn't intended to be humorous???
I would hope it would be since the other alternative is that it's probably one of the unrealistic things I've read on ATS in a long time....

The left get into christmas, heck they even go to church. Even those who aren't religious usually spend the money for a christmas tree and dress it up all nice and pretty. They buy gifts for one another, and spend so much money during the holiday season that the gov't would in no way interfer with the corporate profits, and the sales tax revenues and quite frankly, all those shoppers give the unemployment numbers a more pleasant outlook and enables them to proclaim a wonderful healthy economy, at least for a few months during the year.....

my god, I can't go more than a couple miles in any direction from my house without passing a few churches. and, they seem to have no qualms about knocking on my door at least once a month (even though I've angrily informed them that by causing me to walk all those unnecessary steps to the front door they are causing me pain), to drop off leaflets, or invite the kids that are adult and no longer live with me to church, or whatever! they can buy out hospitals, and turn them into religiously affiliated hospitals and then proceed to refuse them the basic medical procedures that would be considered the most acceptable and safest practices to women. they can get federal dollars while still discriminating against those who do not share in their beliefs in their hiring practices.

only in some christians minds is there a war on christianity!!

a reply to: deadeyedick

I like Thanksgiving better than Christmas. I also like New Years better than Christmas as well. Actually, now that I think about it Christmas is one of my least favorite holidays. It's too stressful of a time of year. Running around making sure you've bought all your Christmas gifts, dealing with holiday shoppers and drivers, and as said on page 1 of this thread the music. The day itself is nice. Spending time with family is always nice, but to me, Christmas is the entire month of December leading up to the 25th as well, and that whole experience sours my perception of it.

I sometimes wish that Christmas was just another Thanksgiving. A day where family can get together and eat a lot of food while not worrying about gift giving.

a reply to: deadeyedick

but do not help those to remove what little joy we have as a whole because a small few claim to be joyless.

Well there's your problem. You've based your happiness or joy on what other people think and or do with their own personal lives.

That's like hating me for eating a doughnut because you're on a diet.

This whole war on Christians/Christmas thing is like a self propagating prophecy. The more you all fight against secularism in our schools and government, the more persecuted you're going to feel.

And that's not our fault. Your self esteem, joy, happiness etc, isn't the concern of the electorate at large when it comes to holidays and religion. That's your cross to bear so to speak.

~Tenth

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Well there's your problem. You've based your happiness or joy on what other people think and or do with their own personal lives.

Nice try!

I base my happiness and wellbeing on my surroundings after I am content with myself I seek to honor the good things in life that helps us all.

After all these nonsensical changes take place we will be left with a world that looks like idiocracy movie.

What is next on the list that must be removed and things I can not do?

Very few places exist in America where a person can have their property the way they want without rules.

The foundation of America happened because of this exact reason but there are no more wild frontiers I can go.

Sure it is freedom but in truth it is freedom with restrictions.

probably, the reason why we have so many differed traditions, that originated from so many different places is that people have such a hard time giving up their traditions. when one group comes in and conquers the other, bringing their own traditions along with them, it is just easier to allow them to keep what they want from the traditions they have and introduce the news ones into their culture.
thus we have the easter bunny hiding eggs all over the house (a remnant of the fertiity cults) mixed in with the resurrection of christ. as well as the mushroom peddling shamen with his flying reideer, the christmas tree, and all mixed in with the birth of christ.
The roman catholic church couldn't kill the pagan holidays, so they just settled for changing their meanings.
but the point I am making if the roman catholic empire, with all it's power and might, could kill christmas...
I highly doubt if our gov't is going to try to..... at the most, in time it will probably be redefined again, but there will be hints of it's christian influence still held within it, but some new things will be added to reflect the society we are growing into.

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Strawman tactics? That's rich coming from you.

Arguments have been made along those lines repeatedly by those who say the same things you do.

You can't squirm out of it that easily. And don't pretend that you're against prayer in school, after all ...

"If they don't want to pray to Jesus, they don't have to, right? They can just stand there in silence."

Nothing wrong with that, right?

Wrong.

THE EVENT IS HAPPENING ON SCHOOL PROPERTY IS CONDUCTED BY SCHOOL OFFICIALS!

That is not "a choice."

I've addressed your statements repeatedly. You keep desperately trying to make it about attendance at the event ...

THE ISSUE IS THE EVENT ITSELF!

WHAT IT IS
WHERE IT IS BEING HELD
WHO IS HOLDING IT

Don't even pretend that you are the one being ignored here.

You were quick to disagree with Ramadan being imposed on the school ... but you're STILL arguing for the Christmas Nativity Scene!

Your argument is utterly hypocritical.

Still straw man tactics. Blatantly.

I am not against prayer in school. Unless you don't want to. You don't have to. But if you want to you should be able to.

My statement on Ramadan was that I would not participate in it but I would not stop anyone else from participating in it.

An equivalent situation here is if a public school decided to celebrate Ramadan and not serve food in the cafeteria during lunch. Don't like it? You can bring food from home if you want to. And have verses from the Koran read over the PA system during school hours. Don't like it? Why should that bother you? You're not "participating," right?

Someone else mentioned the idea of Ramadan and asked if I would be ok with that. I replied that I would not be ok with it and would not participate in it but I would not stop anyone else from participating.

Reading verses from the Koran over the PA system is bit different I think. Its not like you can just decide not to hear it. You will hear it whether you want to or not and that is wrong. If it is available to you and you want to hear it, no problem. If you don't want to you shouldn't have to.

What this all amounts to is a battle over legal terminology at the expense of the spirit of the law. I am quite certain our founding fathers were not thinking that one day government would attack a school play because of a nativity scene. Its just another way for people to stress their differences and poke each other with pointy sticks through tiny loopholes in language that for any other purposes would be very clear.