The Fox News 'War On Christmas' Panic Is Already Starting

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!
Another progressive offended by christmas.

Wow...you called that one perfectly. Isn't it funny how Christmas is "forced" upon the left and the left try to keep it out of "public" schools...but when it comes to gay parades, that isn't being forced upon anyone and "public" displays of gay couples should be fine with everyone?

The one thing you can always count on from the left...they want to be able to do exactly what they want to stop the right from doing. Because...you know...it is for other groups they support instead of the groups they hate. But hate is bad...unless it is against the other side. Well...you get what I mean

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!
Another progressive offended by christmas.

Wow...you called that one perfectly. Isn't it funny how Christmas is "forced" upon the left and the left try to keep it out of "public" schools...but when it comes to gay parades, that isn't being forced upon anyone and "public" displays of gay couples should be fine with everyone?

How is a gay parade violating Separation of Church and State?

a reply to: Annee

This is how many on the Christian right respond. They try to compare it to something they are against even though there is no rational comparison.

I hear it a lot when someone advocates for wildlife conservation. They almost always bring up abortion. Like they're holding endangered species hostage and making abortion illegal is the ransom.

Just makes no sense. They tend to have a hard time seeing nuance.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

That Christ part of Christmas just might have something to do with it.

a reply to: Annee

I also wonder when supporting the US Constitution became a unique feature of "the left" ... because the Constitution is more than clear on the subject.

Perhaps the Christians won't have any trouble when school lunches are cancelled during Ramadan.

/shrug

May I be the first to wish you all a very merry Christmas.....

It could be the last one we celebrate , so let's get the party started .

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Annee

I also wonder when supporting the US Constitution became a unique feature of "the left" ... because the Constitution is more than clear on the subject.

Perhaps the Christians won't have any trouble when school lunches are cancelled during Ramadan.

/shrug

That is where this has all been so twisted and confused. The Constitution prevents the government from promoting a single religion, or set of religious beliefs, and by extension prohibits government funded institutions also. But that doesn't mean that you cant pray on school grounds. It only means the government cant make the choice for you. It is only in the most modern interpretation that religion in any form to any degree must be kept away from any government funded properties.

I have to believe that if students were allowed to worship a little more freely perhaps there might not be as many wanting to kill each other. Maybe they would see life as sacred, not as a thing to be sacrificed to the god of media for 15 minutes of fame.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

So, a Christmas function held on public property is not promoting a single religion?

Where can I find Christmas in the Torah, again? Or perhaps in the Koran?

Egyptian Book of the Dead? Dianetics? or maybe Mother Goose?

(Oops, sorry that last one just got mixed in there somehow.)

The Constitution says that the Government (Federal, State, local) can not establish a religion.

That means that the state cannot promote the symbols, rituals, beliefs, etc. of a religion or any religion.

There's no confusion here at all. There are some who want Christianity to have a dominant place in the US, but our Constitution forbids that.

Easy peasy.

There's actually a lot of stuff not "spelled out" word for word in the Constitution. It does not mean it is not covered.

Precedent has been set for Separation of Church and State by court cases won.

U.S. Supreme Court Decisions on Separation of Church and State

infidels.org...

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Vroomfondel

So, a Christmas function held on public property is not promoting a single religion?

Where can I find Christmas in the Torah, again? Or perhaps in the Koran?

Egyptian Book of the Dead? Dianetics? or maybe Mother Goose?

(Oops, sorry that last one just got mixed in there somehow.)

The Constitution says that the Government (Federal, State, local) can not establish a religion.

That means that the state cannot promote the symbols, rituals, beliefs, etc. of a religion or any religion.

There's no confusion here at all. There are some who want Christianity to have a dominant place in the US, but our Constitution forbids that.

Easy peasy.

Are there any recruiters there? Do you see any sign-up sheets? Did someone try to talk you into joining?

There is a difference between celebrating and promoting.

Are you saying that just seeing a Christian symbol is enough to send non-believers spiraling out of control with faith? You sound like one of those 70's housewives who said listening to rock and roll makes teenagers commit suicide. It takes a bit more than something that simple to make such a huge impact on people. And if the impact isn't that big, what is the problem? I want to celebrate Christmas. If you don't want to - don't. I wont tell you what you can and cant do. You don't tell me what I can and cant do. Same for the people with the nativity scene. They aren't telling you what to do. They aren't telling anyone what to do. People are telling them what they cant do.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

So you'd be okay with it when school lunchrooms are closed for Ramadan?

After all, that's just a celebration.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

We have reached the point were everyone is talking and nobody is listening. So I bid you all adieu. Will leave you with a little something from someone I don't always agree with, but I think it is fitting.

"I have my way. You have your way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it doesn't exist." F. Nietzsche

Good Night ladies and gents.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Vroomfondel

So you'd be okay with it when school lunchrooms are closed for Ramadan?

After all, that's just a celebration.

No. I wont be OK with that. But I wont force people who celebrate Ramadan to eat if they don't want to. See the difference there? I allow you to do what you want without having to change what I do. Why cant you show me the same courtesy?

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Krazysh0t

We have reached the point were everyone is talking and nobody is listening. So I bid you all adieu. Will leave you with a little something from someone I don't always agree with, but I think it is fitting.

"I have my way. You have your way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it doesn't exist." F. Nietzsche

Good Night ladies and gents.

Law is real.

It determines the right way.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

We're not talking about showing each other courtesy.

We're talking about having a religious celebration endorsed by a government entity.

You're not okay with a Muslim celebration, but you're okay with a Christian one?

Like I said, one set of rules for Christians, another set for everyone else.

The Constitution says "no."

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Vroomfondel

So you'd be okay with it when school lunchrooms are closed for Ramadan?

After all, that's just a celebration.

No. I wont be OK with that. But I wont force people who celebrate Ramadan to eat if they don't want to. See the difference there?

NO

That would be equivalent to independently praying --- which is allowed.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Vroomfondel

So you'd be okay with it when school lunchrooms are closed for Ramadan?

After all, that's just a celebration.

No. I wont be OK with that. But I wont force people who celebrate Ramadan to eat if they don't want to. See the difference there? I allow you to do what you want without having to change what I do. Why cant you show me the same courtesy?

Is there a reason the Christmas play can't be held in a church? Problem solved.

I'm sure any number of churches would be willing.

No unconstitutionality; no problem?

Unless ... that's not good enough and the point is, after all, that Christianity is superior?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Vroomfondel

We're not talking about showing each other courtesy.

We're talking about having a religious celebration endorsed by a government entity.

You're not okay with a Muslim celebration, but you're okay with a Christian one?

Like I said, one set of rules for Christians, another set for everyone else.

The Constitution says "no."

I am ok with muslims celebrating Ramadan. I am not ok with being forced to celebrate it with them. I am ok with both, but in neither case am I ok with anyone being forced to participate. There is a difference.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Vroomfondel

So you'd be okay with it when school lunchrooms are closed for Ramadan?

After all, that's just a celebration.

No. I wont be OK with that. But I wont force people who celebrate Ramadan to eat if they don't want to. See the difference there? I allow you to do what you want without having to change what I do. Why cant you show me the same courtesy?

Is there a reason the Christmas play can't be held in a church? Problem solved.

I'm sure any number of churches would be willing.

No unconstitutionality; no problem?

Unless ... that's not good enough and the point is, after all, that Christianity is superior?

Yes - its a school play. It should be held in school. If muslims don't like it, they don't have to attend. See how easy that is? There is nothing in there that says one is superior to the other. In fact, if anyone is saying one is superior over the other its you. A Christian makes a request and the answer is automatically no. But when a muslim says he wants to pray five times a day government says ok, we don't want to offend you or hurt your feelings. It would seem that they do allow some religious acts on government funded property, just not Christian ones.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Exactly it's a SCHOOL play. It's sponsored, planned, conducted, and organized BY THE SCHOOL.

The SCHOOL is a government entity. When the SCHOOL puts on a Christmas play, it is forcing EVERY STUDENT to be a part of it, SCHOOL resources are being used for it, it is advertised AT SCHOOL.

No one wants the Christian kids to be kept from celebrating their special holiday (holy day).

It just needs to be kept away from government (the People's) property, and the People's resources, facilities, etc. don't need to be used to establish a Christian religious celebration.

You're quite clear about not letting Muslims enforce Ramadan on everyone, but you think Christians should be able to enforce Christmas.

It's the same thing. It's unconstitutional. Pure and simple.