The Fox News 'War On Christmas' Panic Is Already Starting

originally posted by: yeahright
You guys are being intentionally diverted by this contrived 'War on Christmas' to distract you from the real problem.

Confederate flags.

Yep

I heard a higher power got mad and pissed all over south Carolina because they removed the flag from gov. property.

I wonder what kind of destruction we will see over his son's birth scene being removed.

Lord forgive them cause they aint got no sense anymore.

Let's not forget, in this particular instance, the School Board was ASKED not to include the Living Nativity.

The rest of the performance is secular or at least non-Christian.

The School Board said no.

So, they're getting sued.

It is the School Board that has endangered the kids "getting to have their little play" ... not the folks bringing suit.

I would guess that they, like several posters in the thread, feel that non-Christians should just "get over it."

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: yeahright
You guys are being intentionally diverted by this contrived 'War on Christmas' to distract you from the real problem.

Confederate flags.

Yep

I heard a higher power got mad and pissed all over south Carolina because they removed the flag from gov. property.

I wonder what kind of destruction we will see over his son's birth scene being removed.

Lord forgive them cause they aint got no sense anymore.

What happened to that "God of Love" schtick?

I guess that was just publicity, eh?

How ludicrous to assign intent to a weather system. If that's true, your god regularly drops His houses on His followers while they're prostrating themselves to Him.

Yeah, sounds like a great guy.

a reply to: Gryphon66

endangered the kids

No

If it is ok with the majority of students then why cave for a few?

It is like removing all the milk from lunchrooms because a couple kids are lactose intolerant.

Perhaps the lactically deficient can sue the force that made them that way.

Where do we draw the line?

Are we saying no more holidaysin school?

Are we next gonna remove all culture related material from the courses.

a reply to: deadeyedick

So, the only people who should have their religious freedom acknowledged are the one's in the majority?

It's fine to trample on the religious freedom of some as long as Christians get what they want?

Amazing honesty from you on the topic there, DedEye.

Nothing religious about milk.

Or the red-herrings you're trying to stir into the pot.

a reply to: Gryphon66

no that is not what I said.

If a group of kids want to put on a play and it is in good taste then they should not be stopped.

You people are highlighting every weak point our society has and then attacking it while claiming to be in the right.

Every point made gets twisted into something not said in the first place.

The point should be that our world is better off with holidays and positive cultural messages.

a reply to: deadeyedick

You didn't read the source article or anything else provided here, did you?

The performance is being put on by the School and the School Board.

It's not a matter of "the kids" spontaneously deciding to do a little manger scene.

It is "a tradition" and the Christian community supports it completely.

"You people" who's that? I would wager at least a few of the folks speaking up for the Constitution and the American Way in this thread are Christians themselves?

I myself am not, but I'm not typical.

Most liberals are Christian or Jewish.

And please, don't even try to pretend that you and other supporters of Christian Dominion in this thread haven't twisted the facts seven-ways-from-Sunday.

originally posted by: deadeyedick

Many battles have already been fought to remove scenes from individual churches and homes and somehow all rights of home owners and churches have to bow to the public eye.

Once again, what are your sources about "scenes" being removed from churches? You use the word "many."
Name one specific case.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

In my lifetime I have seen it change from Christmas to Xmas to Winter Holiday. Christians aren't the ones driving those changes. When I was young we used to bring Christmas cards to school and give them to each other, and to our teachers. We had school plays and sang Christmas carols. Every classroom had a Christmas tree in it. Not every student was Christian but they didn't have to be. No one tried to convert them. They enjoyed the gift giving and the time off school just as much as we did. We also said the pledge of allegiance every morning, facing the flag, with our hand on our heart, and we meant it. It didn't divide us, it brought us together.

I have seen all the changes too. It used to be a time of joy and love and good will to man and we never saw all this outrage before. The Jewish always had their menorahs up and whatever and that was fine, if it was Kwanza or some other celebration, that was fine too. It's sad that now it is more about separation and not coming together. I'm glad that some people still embrace the good side of things no matter what their religious beliefs are.

It is amazing to me that in this day and age someone can be offended by something as simple as a nativity scene. If it was another religion that wanted something set up that caused no harm and wasn't evil, that should be fine too.

This has been argued for pages and pages and it is sad to read. For myself, I will continue to celebrate Christmas with family and friends and enjoy what little magic there is left in the world.

How sad that the ones doing the much separating are the Christians themselves!

"It's Christmas our way or no way! Let 'em eat fruit-cake."

Sad indeed.

a reply to: deadeyedick

The point should be that our world is better off with holidays and positive cultural messages.

BINGO! I guess all us old folk can clearly see that. Some will see your statement as wisdom and others will turn it into something ugly. I grew up as you did with the sharing of Christmas cards in school, Nativity sets, Christmas carols and plays etc. It was a better time, more peace back then there is now, more tolerance and love. I'll gladly choose that over the world we have today. I'm sure that more people agree with you, but from what I keep reading throughout so many forums and private messages is that people are intimidated and afraid to say what they think or feel for fear of being put down.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
How sad that the ones doing the much separating are the Christians themselves!

"It's Christmas our way or no way! Let 'em eat fruit-cake."

Sad indeed.

I'm not Christian. I was raised Catholic, but I am not religious and just follow whatever I find that is good and right. Everybody likes cake.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
How sad that the ones doing the much separating are the Christians themselves!

"It's Christmas our way or no way! Let 'em eat fruit-cake."

Sad indeed.

Sad that you find a nativity scene so damned offensive and wrong. How is it hurting you? How is it hurting anyone? Do pagans offend you? Do other people's religious celebrations offend you if they come from love and are not evil?

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: Vroomfondel

In my lifetime I have seen it change from Christmas to Xmas to Winter Holiday. Christians aren't the ones driving those changes. When I was young we used to bring Christmas cards to school and give them to each other, and to our teachers. We had school plays and sang Christmas carols. Every classroom had a Christmas tree in it. Not every student was Christian but they didn't have to be. No one tried to convert them. They enjoyed the gift giving and the time off school just as much as we did. We also said the pledge of allegiance every morning, facing the flag, with our hand on our heart, and we meant it. It didn't divide us, it brought us together.

I have seen all the changes too. It used to be a time of joy and love and good will to man and we never saw all this outrage before. The Jewish always had their menorahs up and whatever and that was fine, if it was Kwanza or some other celebration, that was fine too. It's sad that now it is more about separation and not coming together. I'm glad that some people still embrace the good side of things no matter what their religious beliefs are.

And frankly a lot of that separation is being being generated by right wing Christians with their Grinch like buzz kill of this ginned up "War on Christmas."
Try greeting someone with an inclusive "Happy Holidays" (an old phrase) and you're often taken to task with a rude "It's Merry Christmas." I get that even from cashiers in major chain stores in my community. So it's not "whatever you celebrate is fine" for a lot of people.

a reply to: Night Star

Are you trying to imply that the Living Nativity Scene is an expression of love???

It's an expression of the School Board's decision that "if anyone doesn't like that we're breaking US law, they can just get over it."

No one was against the Christmas performance.

No one was against goodness, love, sharing, happiness, etc. You know, the things that you and others in this thread are wailing over as if a Manger Scene was the beginning and ending of all good things.

How is it hurting anyone? IT'S AGAINST THE LAW. Church is the place for Christian rituals and symbols NOT SCHOOL.

The fact that you can't even seem to imagine how having to see these Christian symbols over and over year after year when you're not a Christian can be unpleasant and irritating speaks more to your lack of empathy than anything else.

originally posted by: Night Star

originally posted by: Gryphon66
How sad that the ones doing the much separating are the Christians themselves!

"It's Christmas our way or no way! Let 'em eat fruit-cake."

Sad indeed.

Sad that you find a nativity scene so damned offensive and wrong. How is it hurting you? How is it hurting anyone? Do pagans offend you? Do other people's religious celebrations offend you if they come from love and are not evil?

My position: it's not that anyone's religious celebration is "damned offensive and wrong." I actually celebrate Christmas. My wife has a nativity scene in our house. I actually enjoy all the corny old Christmas songs in the stores and on the radio.

But the government including mandatory government run public schools should not be endorsing any religion. There is more than enough private sector for that. I certainly don't see Christmas diminishing there.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Many battles have already been fought to remove scenes from individual churches and homes and somehow all rights of home owners and churches have to bow to the public eye.

The only way it can be removed from a persons home is if they are stupid enough to belong to a home owners association that has rules against such things. If that is the case then it's their fault for being too stupid to read a contract.

If the only threat was from government and school then this would not be an issue but the truth is there is no end in sight for the haters.

The only threat is from haters who want to force their religion on other people.

They want it gone completely and are the loudest in the group.

More BS. No one is crying for Christmas to be removed from America just that there are places for it to be celebrated and that is the persons church and home. Not in a school that the government is paying for.

a reply to: DelMarvel

For anyone who could think a few steps ahead ... damaging the separation of church and state isn't a threat to atheists, it's a threat to Christians.

What happens when a sect opposed to Christianity or a certain brand of Christianity gets the upper hand in a local or State government?

What happens when it's the Christians who just have to "get over it"?

Our system of government is there to protect the most rights of the most people.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I remember a time when every mall and places of business had Christmas trees with Nativity sets beneath the branches, there were also menorahs displayed and Christmas carols were sung. It wasn't against the law back then to have them there. There was no outrage. If someone didn't follow a religion, they didn't make a big deal out of it and would tell us to enjoy our holiday.

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: Gryphon66

I remember a time when every mall and places of business had Christmas trees with Nativity sets beneath the branches, there were also menorahs displayed and Christmas carols were sung. It wasn't against the law back then to have them there. There was no outrage. If someone didn't follow a religion, they didn't make a big deal out of it and would tell us to enjoy our holiday.

It's not against the law now, unless it's a government mall.

The United States Supreme Court has determined that schools may celebrate the holidays and create displays as long as they so do within “the context of the Christmas season” and the religious component of their display does not dominate but simply represents one element of a holiday that has obtained secular status in our society. Lynch v. Donnelly, 465.U.S. 668, 679, and 691 (1984). Under this ruling, a Christmas tree would be appropriate while a cross or a nativity scene would not. Crosses and nativity scenes are purely religious symbols that have not gained secular status in our society and therefore may not be displayed in public schools. www.aclu-tn.org...