Abortion and Responsibilties That Follow

So, the answer is to murder fetuses because no one wants or has the means to take care of them?

You know, maybe if abortion wasn't used as a form of birth control, this would be a non issue. Maybe if sex wasn't such a wide spread recreational activity, this would be a non-issue. Maybe, just maybe, if people had the self control to keep their clothes on, this would be a non-issue.

If two adults aren't prepared to take on the responsibility of raising a child, then they shouldn't be having sex.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
So, the answer is to murder fetuses because no one wants or has the means to take care of them?

You know, maybe if abortion wasn't used as a form of birth control, this would be a non issue. Maybe if sex wasn't such a wide spread recreational activity, this would be a non-issue. Maybe, just maybe, if people had the self control to keep their clothes on, this would be a non-issue.

If two adults aren't prepared to take on the responsibility of raising a child, then they shouldn't be having sex.

Yeah those are GREAT maybes and what-ifs. So now let's talk about reality and how things ACTUALLY work shall we?

a reply to: beezzer
we don't see eye to eye as to what murder is...
I don't see ending a development of a fetus in the early stages of life as being murder you do..
sorry...
and still don't see where I am supporting slavery by stating that there are some very valid reasons for some women to have an abortion!
matter of fact, I see just the opposite....forcing women to suffer the consequences of carrying a child full term when the consequences can be so unpleasant would be slavery!

a reply to: beezzer

Women have been slaves to their bodies for years.
The pill has helped plus abortion has also.
They are no lpnger slaves to their bodies and can now have better options to do with their life due to the freedoms they have now.
Thats all I will say because you have obviously not calmed down and I wish not to fight you.
Agree to disagree.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You'd be shocked (well, probably not) at how many anti-abortion people are pro-death penalty.

I'm not PRO-abortion. The thought to killing a potential child makes me really, really sad. But I AM PRO-choice. A woman's body is HER own damn body. And yes I am biased because of my gender, but I don't really care. A woman should be able to decide what they do with their bodies. And to be FORCED by the state or governments to carry a child to term against her will.

To use Beezer's language, you're simply trading one kind of slavery for another. Women would be slaves to the state, forced to carry and bear children with ZERO say in the matter once their impregnated. You're pregnant? Oh, you don't have rights any more. The little growth in your uterus has more rights than you now.

a reply to: grimpachi

Want to know what got me so steamed?

The fact that the OP opened up and laid down that only we, the anti-abortion people, should come up with solutions or care for all the children.

I'm sick and tired of the pro-death crowd smugly coming in with the same tired statements to justify murder.

I'm fighting back and calling a spade "a spade" because so few will.

Embrace the label.

You obviously are pro-slavery if you think one human can make life/death decisions on another without repercussions.

You obviously are pro-death if you support the right of the woman to choose to kill her unborn child.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

How things actually work?

So abortion isn't used as birth control, sex isn't viewed as a recreational activity, and people do have self control?

a reply to: retiredTxn

That was a fantastic response and congrats to you on adopting 2 children. It sounds like a loving environment for those lucky children.

And that is what children are looking for mostly "Love", then stability, and a safe environment.

a reply to: beezzer

Obviously you know me better than I do according to you.

How smug you must feel. Embrace it and revel in it.


If at some point you wish to present solutions instead of spewing insults I will seriously consider them. Of course you can continue blaming me for the Op and insulting me if you wish.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: Krazysh0t

How things actually work?

So abortion isn't used as birth control, sex isn't viewed as a recreational activity, and people do have self control?

That wasn't my point and you know it. Wishing that people behaved how you want them to isn't going to magically make them behave that way. You have to work within the confines of human behavior to accomplish the things you want. The fact of the matter is that wishing for abstinence is a ludicrous pipe dream and hoping that women don't get abortions is just as ludicrous. We need to figure out ways to take these things into consideration and still find a way to reduce abortion rates.

The keys are proper sex education including how to use contraception (forget abstinence only education). Encourage safer sex and we'll see abortion rates drop. In fact they already are.

2014 - Study: Abortion rate at lowest point since 1973

2015 - US Abortion Rates Dropping In Nearly All States; Strict Abortion Laws Don’t Appear To Affect Trend

originally posted by: grimpachi
a reply to: beezzer

Obviously you know me better than I do according to you.

How smug you must feel. Embrace it and revel in it.


If at some point you wish to present solutions instead of spewing insults I will seriously consider them. Of course you can continue blaming me for the Op and insulting me if you wish.

You know something?

If the OP or ANY ONE OF YOU, had said, "gee, we all need to come up with solutions because abortion is horrible", then I might have had a different approach.

But no.

Just because a few of us are against the murder of innocent unborn babies, we're the bad guys.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
even if everybody acted in a way we saw as appropriate though, there would still be need for abortions.
it might reduce the number of abortions, but it wouldn't eliminate them...
at least now without making women beezer's "slaves" forced to to up some things that most of use do value a great deal!

a reply to: beezzer

Really??? You would do that? That would be great.


OK here was my very first post to you maybe you will have a different approach from last time.

Beez the question is what do you do with all the unwanted children after they are born. You have not answered that question.


Seamrog seems to want to lock people up that do not take care of them. So with that solution we will have to pay the prison system even more money to take care of the prisoners and we still have a bunch of kids without anyone to raise them.

I would think that would be a worse situation not better.


The only thing I have seen you write is who is to blame. I don't care about blame I want to see some solutions that wouldn't cause more problems. Do you have any?

a reply to: beezzer
I presented one...
sterilize the kids before they reach puberty and well reverse it when they are in stable marriages with stable incomes...
it wouldn't eliminate all abortions but it would cut down a great deal on the those abortions being done by those irresponsible people wouldn't it?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You'd be shocked (well, probably not) at how many anti-abortion people are pro-death penalty.

Lol ya, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

I'm not PRO-abortion. The thought to killing a potential child makes me really, really sad. But I AM PRO-choice. A woman's body is HER own damn body. And yes I am biased because of my gender, but I don't really care. A woman should be able to decide what they do with their bodies. And to be FORCED by the state or governments to carry a child to term against her will.

Yea for some reason pro-lifers like to make the assumption that if we are pro-choice we are AUTOMATICALLY pro-abortion. It's a rather annoying strawman.

To use Beezer's language, you're simply trading one kind of slavery for another. Women would be slaves to the state, forced to carry and bear children with ZERO say in the matter once their impregnated. You're pregnant? Oh, you don't have rights any more. The little growth in your uterus has more rights than you now.

I said earlier how if anything is the slave in the relationship between fetus and expectant mother, it is the mother since the fetus acts as a parasite sucking out the mother's nutrients so it can grow into a child. It also cause the woman to go through bodily changes, change her lifestyle (can't smoke or drink for instance), and likely be bed ridden or immobile for long periods, etc. But I think such reasoning is ridiculous and I'd rather not go there, but comparing pro-lifers to slavers is just as ridiculous.

I almost feel like bringing up slavery in an abortion debate is akin to activating Godwin's Law. It's so ridiculous that you might as well have just forfeited the debate.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

No, we really shouldn't have to work within the confines of human behavior. For certain behaviors, there are consequences. Break the law, go to jail. Lie to a friend, lose said friend. Have sex, take the risk of getting pregnant.

Yes! Encourage safe sex and contraception. I'm not against that and you're right that there needs to be education on those topics. That said, abortion shouldn't be a fall back position because two people wanted to "fool around" and weren't ready to accept the consequences of their actions.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Krazysh0t
even if everybody acted in a way we saw as appropriate though, there would still be need for abortions.
it might reduce the number of abortions, but it wouldn't eliminate them...
at least now without making women beezer's "slaves" forced to to up some things that most of use do value a great deal!

This is equally true. Some abortions ARE 100% necessary. There is no way around this with whatever anti-abortion rhetoric you may be armed with.

a reply to: EternalSolace

and yet, no man will ever risk losing their eyesight, or life, because of a sexual act...

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: Krazysh0t

No, we really shouldn't have to work within the confines of human behavior. For certain behaviors, there are consequences. Break the law, go to jail. Lie to a friend, lose said friend. Have sex, take the risk of getting pregnant.

Yes! Encourage safe sex and contraception. I'm not against that and you're right that there needs to be education on those topics. That said, abortion shouldn't be a fall back position because two people wanted to "fool around" and weren't ready to accept the consequences of their actions.

It shouldn't be, but it is. But the beauty is that that is a decision between the mother and the doctor. -I- would try not to use such an option as a fall back. At the end of the day you can only be accountable for you and yours. People are going to make decisions that you don't agree with, but that is their problem. Not yours. Stay in your lane and you will be happy.

a reply to: dawnstar

In my opinion, there is no other solution than to allow for woman to have the choice to abort or not. Every solution presented so far takes away from the woman's right to do with her body as she sees fit. We cannot force people to be sterilized until they meet some set of criteria to procreate.

We have to allow people to be free to make their own choices, whether we like the choices or not, or we open the door for other's to impede on our freedom to do with our body what we wish.