Let's Cut To The Chase, Cut The Crap, And Talk About Radical Terrorism On A Real Level

Very good post and most of it true; I always love your posts and look forward to read them.
Although you touch some very real points in your OP, I'm afraid that that the general view of the situations is biased.

The islam problem in Europe cannot be compared with the islam in US.
America never really had a problem with islam states, but is true they went overboard to fight them for hypocritical reasons. Yes, they are manipulating everyone into fear and hate for personal gain, and are hated by the muslim states in general.

On the other side Europe fought islam for centuries. Lately they wanted to stop fighting and find a solution of peace and cooperation, just like you, so they let them in. By millions, hoping that they will choose civility and freedom over dogma and extremism.

It doesn't seems to happen yet. On the contrary, Europe have a really serious problem with islamic population today, and as I see it will collapse from within and we will see some very bad and ugly fights soon enough. They just won't blend in a free society.

If there are some who intentionally fuel this fire? I bet there are, there always are. Never let a good crisis waste.

America also is riding this wave for it's own dirty purposes, but the problem is not there, this why maybe our american friends here on ATS don't really see it. Nevertheless, it is a real problem and the signs are more than obvious.

And if we eventually end up in a big war "us" versus "them" no one can say it's only our fault. At least Europe tried very hard to live in peace with them, to help them, to understand them. Is just that sometimes enough is enough.

Only my opinion, of course, and I keep waiting for your great posts.

a reply to: VonDutch

I find this an interesting analysis. It did bring to mind a question or comparison.

That being that Capitalism works in much the same way in colonizing countries/groups - just in more disingenous fashion.

Your point about 'Devout Men' being beholden to a 'higher power', so to speak is likewise analogious to devout chistians (the christian right) claiming a higher prinicple then that of the law or the country. President Kennedy was derided for his catholism in that he would have to answer to the Pope. And VP Lieberman was likewise smeared by a 'he won't work on Saturdays' campaign because of his religion.

When we start to see the similarities we can begin to find a solution that will work for both sides.

As long as each side yells "look what they are doing...." at the other without reflecting on their own misconduct, we have war and hate.

Frankly, I'm sick to death, of the self-righteousness of many religious. If we, as a species cannot grow beyound knee-jerk defensive self-righteousness we are doomed.

Maybe we can't live together and have to divide the world, but to claim that one side or the other is right and another wrong to believe the way they do is childish. What's with the need for world domanination anyway - is it a 'guy' thing?

muslim saved jews in paris

Perhaps that deserves it's own thread.

originally posted by: Jonjonj


I choose not to accept having to live with this threat over my and my family's world's head. So then, where do I sign for THAT?

Does no one understand the concept of the term My world? It means the world which affects me (my family, friends, colleagues etc...) immediately, damn, seems people have forgotten how to feel personally affected!

There is a buddish story....

A wandering sadhu (holy person) discovered that his feet felt much better when he walked on leather rather then bare ground. He worked hard to only take steps where there was leather to shield his feet. His journey (state of mind) became harder and harder to bear and, tired he sat to meditate.

Enlightenment came and wrapped the leather around his tired feet and continued his journey with comfort and enthusiasm.

I'm not good at telling stories but I trust you get the point - you can't change the world to suit you (make you safe in this case) but you can change you (your thinking) to make the world confortable.

It is always fascinating to observe people riding the waves of popular sentiment and opinion following an act of Islamic terrorism.

From everywhere, behind desktop screens, laptops, tablets and mobile devices, all are suddenly experts.

Are all of you experts ready for the next series of waves, followed by a Tsunami?

a reply to: WhiteHat

No, some of us are aware of it. We don't have the depth of understanding that you do living it, but we are aware you have a problem, a large one. We also know it has the potential to get extremely ugly.

Part of the problem is that there is a strong element of Islam that does not co-exist. It isn't just a religion, but an entire theocratic package in that guise. For those who practice it, there can be no co-existence because the religious and governance elements are part and parcel.

a reply to: WhiteHat

I went off to read about the things you discussed and wound up getting sucked into my usual topic, Cyberwarfare. But I did read enough to begin to have empathy towards the way of thinking. In fact I came across an article that said parts of France, currently, are being cordoned off as Muslim only zones - which blew my mind... but then in tabbing I lost the article and my browsers history is set to not have a history at all.

My thought is that proximity and history can be a double edged sword. While they can remind of old wounds, they also offer the chance to allow familiarity and commonality to help to heal those old cuts. No?

originally posted by: ausername
It is always fascinating to observe people riding the waves of popular sentiment and opinion following an act of Islamic terrorism.

From everywhere, behind desktop screens, laptops, tablets and mobile devices, all are suddenly experts.

Are all of you experts ready for the next series of waves, followed by a Tsunami?

If you'll direct me to where I claimed expertise in Islamic matters, I will gladly retract it. As for riding "waves"? I don't expose myself to media much so if there is a 'wave" then I'll have to assume I generated it.

Of course that reply totally ignores the fact that you, as others, just showed up to let us know from which culture your indoctrination came from.

I for one will say exactly what I think. I don't trust muslims because of my experience with muslims. I understand their agenda and know that many of them will lie to keep it hidden. But the truth is their God says to convert or kill and they will do that because their belief in their religion is more powerful than their belief or love in anything else. They live for their religion. Therefore, their goal is to satisfy the goals of their religion. You can't stop people like this other then to no longer have them around. As far as all the non-radical muslims...BS. I've watched, read and spoken with military friends who have been there. It all points to one thing...they will do anything to please their God and that means the end of everyone else unless you convert to their religion. Any muslim who says differently is either not a muslim or is lying.

Sorry...but that is the truth.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

No absolute statement that is inclusive of 1.6 billion people can be "the truth". It's a generalization at best. That's like saying all women are liars because both of your ex's lied.

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: WhiteHat

I went off to read about the things you discussed and wound up getting sucked into my usual topic, Cyberwarfare. But I did read enough to begin to have empathy towards the way of thinking. In fact I came across an article that said parts of France, currently, are being cordoned off as Muslim only zones - which blew my mind... but then in tabbing I lost the article and my browsers history is set to not have a history at all.

My thought is that proximity and history can be a double edged sword. While they can remind of old wounds, they also offer the chance to allow familiarity and commonality to help to heal those old cuts. No?

There is a thread on the French no go zones here.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks for yet another well written thread, Heff. It's nice to have a voice of sanity in an otherwise chaotic wilderness. I was not at all surprised when this story emerged. It made me wonder about the real reason for invading Afghanistan.
When Bin Laden was "killed" I remember how the late night shows all reacted. To me it was nothing but blatant propaganda and reminded me of the part in Orwell's 1984 when they had the two minute hate ritual.
Compare them if you want:









Any more, the more I see the crap that comes out of the "news" media, the more I think of Wag the Dog.

Not complicated. The world is run by the Archons. They feed on fear and know the best way to juice it out of us.

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

No absolute statement that is inclusive of 1.6 billion people can be "the truth". It's a generalization at best. That's like saying all women are liars because both of your ex's lied.

Well said Heff and who could disagree with that ?

During 9/11 I was trying to get back into the states with a plane load of passengers and if I remember correctly there were 6 middle eastern guys on this flight. We landed in Cancun where we waited for the states to reopen the airspace so we could return. While at the hotel I received a daily briefing via telephone about the likelihood of us being able to return to the states. I would then go to the restaurant at 08:30 and brief the passengers who wanted to know what I knew.. The 6 guys came to me one morning after the briefing and asked point blank if I thought they would be hassled at immigration or customs when we eventually arrived back in the states.. I told them that as long as their paperwork was proper they should/would have no problems.. America and it's government are very big and it will take time for decisions to be made and policies and their information/directives to take effect.. These guys were all businessmen.... I do remember one man saying he was sorry for the loss of life and I believed him..

FAST FORWARD: Sometime after 9/11 coming out of N.Y. there was a woman on board the aircraft that refused to sit next to some middle eastern guys. She actually made it known they were all fornicators of sheep and little kids so she refused to be even in the same row as they were. The flight attendants moved her to a different row and we landed at our destination on time on schedule. In today's world she would probably have been taken off the flight and no telling what else..?

I always stood at the cockpit door to thank the folks for flying with us.. As she came up the isle we made eye contact and maybe my body language/ eyes / (whatever) gave her the impression I was available for some kind of verbiage.. She stopped in front of me and apologized for the ruckus in the back with the caveat that she had lost her only son in the 911 attack ... The woman's disgust and hate was worn as an aura around her presence. Her parting words were, " People will never understand until the bastards kill one of their own family".

I truly felt sorry for her.. The loss of her child and the unadulterated hatred she had in her very soul was something I had not seen for many years. The mid eastern guys got off without even making eye contact but I was prepared to make apologies to them for her hatred..

The killing of innocents: If I lived in some country where bombs and bullets killed my loved ones I can only assume it would not take much to prod me into wanting to strike back at the perps. Add in a religious overtone and the prospect of the 72 virgin fantasy to some young buck in a society that is really, really, sexually suppressed and 'Boom off goes another one".

With 1.6 billion of the faith; what is the percentage of those who want to destroy/takeover/hasten the Caliph's arrival/ make Islam the faith of the world/... destroy all thought that is not covered in their book. I have read that it is guessed somewhere around 300 million and growing... Most do not have the means to do anything for blow back or revenge ...

IMO many Muslims will immigrate, not assimilate, and out breed the local populations. Have their enclaves in otherwise sovereign countries where foreigners are discouraged from walking their streets.. As their numbers increase their own laws and taxes come into effect as well as getting their representatives in to seats of the government and power....Political power is needed so a better understanding and tolerance can be brought forth by one of their own representatives; or so the reasoning goes..
No link just a quote:

"We are living in Hamburgistan." — Daniel Abdin, imam of Hamburg's Al-Nour Mosque.
One politician has been repeatedly threatened with beheading as the price to pay for leading a fundraising campaign to provide food and water for Kurds in northern Iraq.

"As a society we must ask ourselves: how can it be that people who live in Germany and... born and raised here, are supporters of a brutal, inhuman and fundamentalist group such as the IS and attack peaceful protestors with knives, sticks and machetes. Here in Germany, the IS threatens to become a refuge for frustrated young people…." — Claudia Roth, Vice-President, German Parliament.

a reply to: 727Sky

Posted By Robert Spencer On October 15, 2014 @ 12:56 am In Daily Mailer,FrontPage | 17 Comments

1,400 British non-Muslim children were gang-raped and brutalized by Muslims in the British city of Rotherham, in accord with the Qur’anic allowance for the sexual enslavement of infidel women that the Islamic State has pointed to in order to justify its exploitation of captive Yazidi and Christian women. But no airstrikes were called in Rotherham; rather, British officials there “described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought as racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so.” And now four years of key and highly incriminating files have gone missing.

According to the Mirror, “Professor Alexandra Jay, who wrote the bombshell report revealing 1,400 young girls were abused in the town over 15 years, said minutes from key meetings have disappeared. Rotherham Council was slammed in her report for ignoring the scandal and its leader and chief executive have both since resigned.”

These files almost certainly contain damning material about how British officials wouldn’t move against the rape gangs for fear of being stigmatized as “racists” and “Islamophobes.” But those officials are still in positions of power and influence in Britain, and so these missing files are unlikely ever to be recovered.

Political correctness or just plain stupidity ? Maybe that is the question ? I figure we can all get along as long as everyone becomes part of a society and works for the betterment of the whole and respects each member of said society.. When barriers are set up restricting freedom of movement due to some threat of violence or blasphemy by someone's definition can get you killed it might be a good time to do a little reevaluation of policies and procedures, no?

Heff I have no answers.. All I can say as an observer is this is not the world I wanted my kids/grandkids to grow up in. Frustratingly enough, I see no end to this tunnel of darkness we are being driven into..

It is true most people have a better chance of dying in a car wreck than being killed by some Jihadist unless you are a Kurd or some other soul in a mid eastern war zone.... the odds of winning a lottery are pretty dismal too but it still happens.

Maybe Japan with it's immigration and naturalization policies got it right to begin with..? I did have a well written article to that effect but alas I cannot find it presently.. Besides enough is enough.. The lines are drawn and becoming bolder between the hardliners on both sides and the apologist/politically correct in the middle.. This will play out to an ending that is not in my magic crystal ball that I don't own..... even if it was I am not sure I would want to take a looksee..

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

No absolute statement that is inclusive of 1.6 billion people can be "the truth". It's a generalization at best. That's like saying all women are liars because both of your ex's lied.

What you say is true. But let's do a little math. Let's say that of the 1.6 billion Muslims only 1% of them represent the sect that is intolerantly theocratic and believes that infidels (you or I) should convert, submit to dhimmitude (a little like a very humiliating set of Jim Crow laws + pay a tax for not being Muslim) or die. Let's further say that same 1% practices taqqiya, the practice of lying to cover their true intent and belief so long as they are working to further the aims of the faith.

That is 16 million people who not going to be honest with you. They are going to hide among the rest of the world's Muslims. How do you weed them out?

It's a huge problem and that's assuming it's ONLY 1%.

a reply to: ketsuko

A funny thing happened on the way to my reply... I got curious about murder rates per nation. The reason I got curious is that one fact we tend to ignore in the US is that we are one of the most violent nations in the world, domestically and abroad. This can be argued, and mitigated to some extent, by the fact that we have a very civilized codification of law and tend to prosecute behaviors that other nations might not see as criminal. But that doesn't change the fact that we have places here, already, that could qualify as war zones.

I know, I live very close to one. Within two miles of me is an entire apartment complex that is guarded 24/7 by men carrying AK-47's and nobody enters or leaves without their permission. The police rarely drive by, and when they do, they do so whistling and acting like they've seen nothing.

Is this an Islamic compound I speak of? Nope. It's a full blown, New Jack city style drug haven. Two or three full acres of what might as well be foreign soil.

That particular area came to mind because I had the thought that what makes the US different from the UK ( as mentioned above ) is that we are armed and violent. Any extremist(s) who tried to prosthelitize the neighborhood I am thinking about would last about ten seconds. My region of the US is also the sort of place where serial rapists don't end up arrested, they just end up.

Anyway... I Googled and came up with this list of countries by murder rate and found some very interesting facts. For example, South America is exponentially more dangerous than any nation I could see anywhere from Europe to Asia.

Maybe the fact that I know I live in a society that would not allow these trespasses to occur jades me a bit and enables me to think without the fear or hatred people from other nations might have.

I am not condoning violence or stating that it is a remedy. But the reality of this continent is a deterrent and is antithetical to the goals that the extremists wish to impose.

That is the pessimist in me thinking purely in logic and cold facts.

The optimist in me understands that what causes people to behave desperately is actual desperation. Take away the desperate environment and it removes the motive for desperate action.

The one exception is young males. Young males of almost all societies act out. They tend to be the ones who kill without thought or fear of consequence. They tend to be the bombers and the spree killers. This is not an Islamic condition, it's universal.

So your one percent? My mind, in the setting of the US, whittles it down to just a fraction of the young males. The ones who were going to follow a path of violence regardless of heritage. And in the US? I believe their impact would be no greater than any other set of gang bangers that we've already got on our hands.

If that was rambling I apologize. I'm fighting sleep to finish this post.