Let's Cut To The Chase, Cut The Crap, And Talk About Radical Terrorism On A Real Level

a reply to: Anneke

Prefaced by "op" it means Anonymous will be DDoSing somebody.

a reply to: Jonjonj

I imagine there are localised groups in your area that you could sign up to to entertain that kind of mentality.

I shall leave you and wish you well with your thoughts.

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: Jonjonj

I do NOT accept the right of a religion to exist in MY world, that world in which I live, that wishes to endanger my freedom and the freedom of those that I love.

I do NOT accept the argument that I have got it all wrong, that I am being lied to, that this is all a lie and it's all down to political and economic issues because, while it MAY indeed be the case, I am in no position to do anything beyond protecting me and mine. And I can NOT do that when random, destructive events take place in places that are so much like MY home that they could just as easily BE my home.

There is a clear danger, from radical followers of Islam, to me, my family, my life and my world!

I could easily post those words under an account named "AllahAkbar", state my location as Afghanistan, and it would be seen as radiclized intolerance. The context and message is no different from the rhetoric on the other side.

They have been taught that you are the danger, you have been taught that they are the danger and both sides spout the same exact words in reference to one antother. This is social conditioning in action.

Incidentally your location says Spain, which surprises me a bit because Spain is the only European nation to have once been an Islamic state, am I wrong? There is a very rich and diverse history and culture there of tolerance for nearly every religion... Though I do think the blood libel stories got the Jews persecuted there during the Inquisition. I'd have to find one of my books to verify. At any rate - Do you not see the point?

You are saying the same sorts of things that we would imagine an Islamic extremist saying, just with slightly different vernacular.

You may want to check some of my older posts to see if I am aware or not of the effects of Islam in Spain.
And you seem to like to conduct the argument in your favour without actually providing proof. Where, in anything that I said, can I be compared to a radical? Because I said I do NOT accept being made to live under threat? Is that radical? WOW!

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

So let me get this straight use Bush to 'justify' christians are just like muslims.

God told terrorists to blow up the USS cole, Kobar Towers,First WTC bombing, and the HUNDREDS of other examples.

Including God told them terrorists in Iraq to cut children in half, and behead people. to strap bombs on to themselves to kill people in markets.

And EVERYTHING ELSE THEY have done.

Honestly 1 example versus the ATROCITIES that are going on RIGHT NOW.

Not a GD DECADE ago.

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: Jonjonj

I imagine there are localised groups in your area that you could sign up to to entertain that kind of mentality.

I shall leave you and wish you well with your thoughts.

Well, if we are going the insult route, nothing more to say. Go on apologising for it.

a reply to: neo96

You don't see endless bombing of other nations as an atrocity? I can assure you more have died from bombs than from Islamic Jihadists seeking to martyr themselves.

But even that is irrelevant to this discussion.

Hate does not negate hate. Hate is a function of ignorance and fear. The answer to it is NOT to beat it to death, it's to enlighten it and teach it the truth rather than the lies it's held dear.

Your approach is the same that the US prison system uses. Which is, incidentally why we have the highest per capita incarceration and recivitism rates in the entire world.

a reply to: Jonjonj

You spoke in absolutes and definitives. You WILL NOT...

Again, do you not see that as a radicalized viewpoint? A position of intolerance?

a reply to: Jonjonj

I had no reason or cause to insult you, you asked where to sign up and the best place would be a local factionised group that shared your belief.

You are entitled to any beliefs you wish but I honestly thought that would be your best option, that is why I wished you well.

How could you be insulted if you felt that your reasoning was correct, again I appologise if offence was caused.

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: Jonjonj

You spoke in absolutes and definitives. You WILL NOT...

Again, do you not see that as a radicalized viewpoint? A position of intolerance?

Because I am absolutely determined not to live in terror. Intolerance? Of course I am intolerant of terrorism, who isn't, you?

Your country's national anthem is glorified war. When you change facets of the system that make it what it is, then it will change also. The biggest defense budget, and army in the world is not for a nation bred for peace and hippie culture. Old powerful men run the world also, their toys consisted of a well armed battalion of plastic soldiers that raised them. They don't know anything better.

There's nothing new, it's just more personal issue. War is closer to home than ever before because of technology. A soldier now has the ability to pull out a personal camera and document a real horror story that only a decade ago would have never made it in so much droves of information back from the front lines.

It's just funny so much money was wasted on war, not one profit was gained, and people are still barking when real tangible investments are still an option on the table that could redeem a once great nation in such a sorry state of affairs.

It's not so glorious in retrospect to see humanity waste away in 1080p hi-definition 1200 mp quantum dot camera.

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: Jonjonj

I had no reason or cause to insult you, you asked where to sign up and the best place would be a local factionised group that shared your belief.

You are entitled to any beliefs you wish but I honestly thought that would be your best option, that is why I wished you well.

How could you be insulted if you felt that your reasoning was correct, again I appologise if offence was caused.

By factionised I assume you mean marginal, on the fringe? How about the general feeling that this is getting to be too much? I have lived, all my life, in multicultural cities. Never before have I felt such polarisation. Offence was taken, it seems I have to fall into line with the agenda that there is no real radicalisation and apologise for
NOT understanding how the apologists for terrorism feel, Well I won't!

a reply to: Jonjonj

Which brings us back to the OP. That feeling of hopelessness and intolerance. Is it rational? What are the odds that you'll die in a terrorist attack say, vs, a car accident or a slip and fall at work?

The threat has been so amplified and engrained into our psyches through media manipulation that we see it as so much more than it really is - which allows us to justify and accept things like endless war and reduced freedom for the sake of security.

It is brainwashing and it works so very, very efficiently.

a reply to: neo96

So let me get this straight use Bush to 'justify' christians are just like muslims.

Yes, Neo - I absolutely do. I use Bush as an example of people who use God - and religion - as a real world justification for violence and murder

Honestly 1 example versus the ATROCITIES that are going on RIGHT NOW.

Not a GD DECADE ago.

So, we are not responsible for our past? Is yesterday the past? 20 minutes ago? I see this argument used again and again - yet you want to make some kind of ridiculous claim that modern Christians are somehow blameless and peaceful

I didn't realize that the modern era began exactly one decade plus one day ago

:-)

I consider the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to be GD ATROCITIES. You can get as pissy as you want Neo. Doesn't change history - or absolve any of us. Least of all Georgie-boy

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: Jonjonj

Which brings us back to the OP. That feeling of hopelessness and intolerance. Is it rational? What are the odds that you'll die in a terrorist attack say, vs, a car accident or a slip and fall at work?

The threat has been so amplified and engrained into our psyches through media manipulation that we see it as so much more than it really is - which allows us to justify and accept things like endless war and reduced freedom for the sake of security.

It is brainwashing and it works so very, very efficiently.

I used to go to work on the train in Atocha at the same time the bombs went off. I was extremely lucky as I wasn't there that day. THAT DAY! I also know people who were affected by, and lost love one's to, that outrage.

a reply to: Jonjonj

As I said You are entitled to your views as I am mine, I'm sorry if you feel that it has got that bad for you.

You do not have to fall in line with anything as long as you feel you are doing the right thing for YOU AND YOUR OWN.

Maybe you could start a thread about the in depth problems you are facing and we could all gain some insight into it.

a reply to: Jonjonj

I sincerely do feel for your pain and loss and have nothing but respect and sympathy for it. But to blame an entire people for the act of a misled few?

That's the circular logic that keeps this hate machine running. For every tragic story like yours there is one on the other side equally as painful for that family and those people.

This entire thread is predicated upon not allowing ourselves to generalize to such an extent that we see entire segments of the worlds population in the singular. Not all Muslims are killers, not all Christians drop bombs on civilians. Generalities are where logic leaves us and emotion takes over. Once emotion is all we've got, we're ripe for manipulation and indoctrination.

a reply to: Jonjonj

Well you going around deciding what is and isn't yours affects me and mine.
How about when me and mine cross paths with you and yours and you decide that what I want or have doesn't work with you?
Seems like in your passage it doesn't matter about me and mine cause you refuse to accept anything different.

We all share this rock, it's no ones.
If we want to talk about the divide, this "don't mess with me and mine" is great start imo

a reply to: Hefficide

Perhaps it works so effectively because people are, more and more, coming to realize that they live in a "country", (what ever that means anymore), where they have no effective control over who is around them, who they must mingle with in public, who might move in next door. At the same time, they're coming to realize that the government doesn't care about them. It works for the wealthy who demand open borders without immigration controls.

It's a set up for a dangerous and uncontrollable situation.

a reply to: TonyS

The same words spoken about the Irish, the Chinese, and the freed blacks. Yet here we all stand, still. Every time the bogeyman loses his ability to scare us, a new one has to be created.

I wonder if Canadians have nightmares about illegal Americans?

Heff I think you are doing a disservice by saying that it is the west that has such a problem with radical Muslims. Russia and China have their problems, but the media control in those countries only lets certain information out. They deal with issues like that in ways that would make us folks in the west cringe. Let's not forget India has had problems with members of Islam also. Until the regions where the faith is the dominant religion start actually taking care of their people and not use the west as the scapegoat for their own problems, nothing good will happen. Yea Saudi Arabia is a problem, because the ones actually educated and with $$$ keep the masses ignorant to feed them lies and half truths. The ME among a few other places still operate on a medieval level. The ego's of the rulers keep them spending outrageous money on their wants instead of raising their countries to their potential. The "west" in our vainity think that we can understand them and reach a middle ground, that is impossible till they understand themselves and are ready to see the rest of the world as equals.