Let's Cut To The Chase, Cut The Crap, And Talk About Radical Terrorism On A Real Level

a reply to: Bluesma

But let's "cut the bull#" and get real. The context in which Charlie Hebdo was active was not full freedom of speech- they refrained from anti-semitism and from any mockery of the holocaust.

I do not personally feel it is considerate to mock the most sensitive issues other people have, but just being objective here (or as much as possible) let's not pretend that we are holy protectors of free speech for all- we pick and choose what people are free to express.

That is bound to make some people feel oppressed, some feel that favoritism is going on, and that the holy warriors of rightious indignation are being hypocrites.

I DO NOT support or condone killing people for that, I do not think it is an excuse, I just wish to point in the direction of honest realistic perception of what is going on.

Very brave Bluesma - I agree

These people were murdered - this is inexcusable and unforgivable

While we're all busy patting ourselves on the back for defending freedom of speech, sometimes we create heroes and then martyrs...

Freedom of speech includes the right to be offended - and to to be able say so freely

Nothing is sacred - and if people want to stand up for real freedom of speech - we must also defend the right to criticize Charlie Hebdo

a reply to: truckdriver42

Two such major denouncements have taken place in the past 24 hours by leaders of Islamic nations.

They, too, are getting tired of the endless war and the rhetorical and propagandistic rule. Nobody wins while everybody is losing and that is a universal truth no matter what name you use to talk to God - even if you don't believe in one at all.

a reply to: Hefficide

They, too, are getting tired of the endless war and the rhetorical and propagandistic rule.

I wouldn't hold my breathe.

It's been the same snip different day, different year for over 2000 years in the ME.

2000 years from now unless reformation comes to Islam people will still be talking about it.

a reply to: neo96

The same could have been said for Christianity even a mere two to three hundred years ago. Many of the ancient, superstitious and barbaric practices were still being enforced until, historically, very recently.

The point being is that the average person is the average person, regardless of demographic differences - and we all tend to want and feel the same things. We have more commonality than difference. We all experience the same life events. Love, the birth of children, the loss of loved ones, joy, sorrow, pain... All these things more universal than words in any book.

Envy comes naturally to humans. Tribal defensiveness comes naturally to humans. Distrust of that which is different comes naturally to humans. But blind dogmatic hatred??? THAT is mass produced by propaganda and misinformation and it's a virus that plagues this world, on both sides of any given issue.

a reply to: Hefficide

I beg to differ.

Modern Christianity is worlds apart from 'modern' Islam.

I don't see them going around cutting children in half, and beheading people, including journalist's.

I haven't seen them blowing planes out of the sky, when they aren't strapping bombs on to themselves to get in to heaven to get 72 virgins.

To compared modern Christianity to 'modern' Islam is a false equivalency IMO.

It was those 'true believers' over in the ME nation building in the 21st century, and they have been killing the Christians, and the Jews in the process.

a reply to: Hefficide

Don't you mean Sept 10, 2001, not Sept 2, 2011

a reply to: neo96

Modern Christianity wasn’t always “modern”

In their day they killed and murdered more people than Islamic terrorism will ever even come near to. Remember the Cathars.

Slavery, what CHRISTIANS DID TO THE NATIVE AMERICANS, AFRICAN SLAVES, WITCHES

The history of Christianity has more blood than anything any idea in the history of humanakind.

So today Islam is going through a reformation and some groups don’t want to change and there are radicals.

That happened with Christianity and it still has radicals who kill and murder: KKK, Christian Identity movement, Westboro Baptist church, Mcview, Elohim City and many more

Radical fundamentalism is NOT ONLY in Islam.

a reply to: th3dudeabides

I was waiting for somebody to make that distinction. No, I meant the 12th ( I hope I typed 12th - if not edit time ) because on the 11th we were all stunned and put into a trance. We were all in a state of PTSD - which, starting on the 12th became a very useful thing to those in power.

We, as a nation, and largely as a world, were in a collective state of shock. If you've ever been in shock, from say an accident or illness, you know that it's a very suggestible state of mind to be in. Clear thought is nearly impossible and the instinct to trust in and take guidance from others kicks in. Well, once the initial animal reaction passes.

So it was the 12th I spoke about.

ETA: Nope, it says the second. I've asked for an edit. This is one of the things that happens because I am a one draft/no proofread writer.

a reply to: neo96
George Bush: 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'

George Bush has claimed he was on a mission from God when he launched the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, according to a senior Palestinian politician in an interview to be broadcast by the BBC later this month.

Mr Bush revealed the extent of his religious fervour when he met a Palestinian delegation during the Israeli-Palestinian summit at the Egpytian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, four months after the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

Mr Bush went on: "And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."

To compared modern Christianity to 'modern' Islam is a false equivalency IMO.

Honestly Neo...

a reply to: neo96

Eric Rudolph blew up an abortion center and bombed the '96 Olympics in the name of God. He was a throwback, but it shows the mentality still exists in some sects of Christianity.

I have a question.

It's a question based on the condition that Radical Muslims are being played (radicalised) by overarching political and economically interested parties.

My question is this: Should I, as a human being, ignore the threat held over me by these "pawns" in the game simply because I know they are being played? Or would it behoove me to be wary of all possible threats although that may seem anti-Muslim.
I am asking this question because it is obvious that, whatever the motive behind or source of the threat, the threat still exists.
I do NOT accept the right of a religion to exist in MY world, that world in which I live, that wishes to endanger my freedom and the freedom of those that I love.
I do NOT accept the argument that I have got it all wrong, that I am being lied to, that this is all a lie and it's all down to political and economic issues because, while it MAY indeed be the case, I am in no position to do anything beyond protecting me and mine. And I can NOT do that when random, destructive events take place in places that are so much like MY home that they could just as easily BE my home.
If it is true that I am being brainwashed then I have to say, I don't FEEL brainwashed, I FEEL defensive. And no amount of trying to convince me otherwise will work.
There is a clear danger, from radical followers of Islam, to me, my family, my life and my world!

a reply to: Jonjonj

So your plan to defeat intolerant extremism is to engage in intolerant extremism against the other intolrant extremism?

Without being offensive at all, you might want to sit down and spend some quality "me" time with that idea.

a reply to: Jonjonj

I understand to a degree where you are coming from but your ownership of the world you live in seems a little odd.

Your constant refferal to YOUR, ME MINE could come across a little arrogant if read in the wrong way.

Is the world we live in yours? Mine? ours or everybodys?

Do not get me wrong I understand your sentiment but you must admit it seems a trifle arrogant to claim the world as your own.

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: Jonjonj

So your plan to defeat intolerant extremism is to engage in intolerant extremism against the other intolrant extremism?

Without being offensive at all, you might want to sit down and spend some quality "me" time with that idea.

Where in the world did you read that?

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: Jonjonj

I understand to a degree where you are coming from but your ownership of the world you live in seems a little odd.

Your constant refferal to YOUR, ME MINE could come across a little arrogant if read in the wrong way.

Is the world we live in yours? Mine? ours or everybodys?

Do not get me wrong I understand your sentiment but you must admit it seems a trifle arrogant to claim the world as your own.

I am speaking about how this situation affects me and mine. My family, my friends, and I make no apologies for that. I am not trying to be a world saver here, as mentioned I have no power to do that.

a reply to: Jonjonj

I did not to intend that you should do otherwise.

Simply that if you considered the world a shared place as opposed to one of your own ownership it may be easier to live in.

Hefficide, you are an incredible online personality , author and great thinker. You do cut right to the bone of any issue and I have yet to disagree with a single one of your posts. Kudos!

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: Jonjonj

I did not to intend that you should do otherwise.

Simply that if you considered the world a shared place as opposed to one of your own ownership it may be easier to live in.

I choose not to accept having to live with this threat over my and my family's world's head. So then, where do I sign for THAT?

Does no one understand the concept of the term My world? It means the world which affects me (my family, friends, colleagues etc...) immediately, damn, seems people have forgotten how to feel personally affected!

a reply to: Jonjonj

I do NOT accept the right of a religion to exist in MY world, that world in which I live, that wishes to endanger my freedom and the freedom of those that I love.

I do NOT accept the argument that I have got it all wrong, that I am being lied to, that this is all a lie and it's all down to political and economic issues because, while it MAY indeed be the case, I am in no position to do anything beyond protecting me and mine. And I can NOT do that when random, destructive events take place in places that are so much like MY home that they could just as easily BE my home.

There is a clear danger, from radical followers of Islam, to me, my family, my life and my world!

I could easily post those words under an account named "AllahAkbar", state my location as Afghanistan, and it would be seen as radiclized intolerance. The context and message is no different from the rhetoric on the other side.

They have been taught that you are the danger, you have been taught that they are the danger and both sides spout the same exact words in reference to one antother. This is social conditioning in action.

Incidentally your location says Spain, which surprises me a bit because Spain is the only European nation to have once been an Islamic state, am I wrong? There is a very rich and diverse history and culture there of tolerance for nearly every religion... Though I do think the blood libel stories got the Jews persecuted there during the Inquisition. I'd have to find one of my books to verify. At any rate - Do you not see the point?

You are saying the same sorts of things that we would imagine an Islamic extremist saying, just with slightly different vernacular.

What's with this countdown clock? Any ideas?
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