Let's Cut To The Chase, Cut The Crap, And Talk About Radical Terrorism On A Real Level

I really think the heart of reaching understanding is mutual respect and to each their own with regards to religion. I think there are moderate Muslims, and in my definition of this, its Muslims who just aren't fanatical about their beliefs, keep it to themselves and don't care what others do or say. I know, cause I am married to one. You know the pinnacle of western values, freedom, equality, justice, are not perfect everywhere, including western countries. Sometimes we even see soooo much liberalism we don't know what is considered right and wrong anymore, hence you see other societies laying the law down and saying no I don't accept this or that because God says this or that and belief systems are different. It's become a muddled picture, and "whosoever is perfect should cast the first stone", as in alot of hypocrisy. You think oppressed Muslims such as in Algeria, have a choice? There is only a ruling dictator and military elite who have crushed all opposition, and killed hundreds of thousands of their own people. Do they have courts there? Jobs? Houses? How can they develop a sense of freedom under oppression? All they have is their faith in God, and it should be respected because most are STILL peace-loving people suffering under far worse conditions then alot of westerners could even dream of. Have some RESPECT for other people who think differently and maybe the fighting would stop.

Nice post Mr. Heff...
I think that religion is just a guise to control and manipualte people. It matters not what the name of the religion is, the purpose is the same...control, and manipulation. Take for instance Pope Urban. From what i have read, and please tell me off if I am wrong here, but he incited the christian masses to fight the muslims based on rhetoric and bravado, all with the sole purpose of reigniting a flailing catholic religious base.
The following is from the history channel
"At the Council of Clermont, in France, at which several hundred clerics and noblemen gathered, Urban delivered a rousing speech summoning rich and poor alike to stop their in-fighting and embark on a righteous war to help their fellow Christians in the East and take back Jerusalem. Urban denigrated the Muslims, exaggerating stories of their anti-Christian acts, and promised absolution and remission of sins for all who died in the service of Christ.

Urban's war cry caught fire, mobilizing clerics to drum up support throughout Europe for the crusade against the Muslims. All told, between 60,000 and 100,000 people responded to Urban's call to march on Jerusalem. Not all who responded did so out of piety: European nobles were tempted by the prospect of increased land holdings and riches to be gained from the conquest. These nobles were responsible for the death of a great many innocents both on the way to and in the Holy Land, absorbing the riches and estates of those they conveniently deemed opponents to their cause. Adding to the death toll was the inexperience and lack of discipline of the Christian peasants against the trained, professional armies of the Muslims. As a result, the Christians were initially beaten back, and only through sheer force of numbers were they eventually able to triumph."
www.history.com...

I believe this mantra has been follwed by many subesquent people/religions to great effect since that time. Exaggerate the enemies actions to fire up the base. A fired up base then loses all sense of morality to defend what is essentially a man made doctrine and then, bam...war. That Clint Eastwood movie, Unforgiven, is a great example.

Anyway, from what I've read, the modern jihadist movement seems to have started when we abandoned the jihadist fighters in afganistan back in the 70's when we helped them kick out the russians.
nice article here about it.
web.stanford.edu...

a reply to: MKMoniker

Awesome points made, thank you for a good read. But I just have one quick question to ponder.

Now in this case, as in many others, we have seen the supplier of the home not giving benefits to the seeking party. They have supplied a way out of the other struggle. Although the hardship may have been easier in the other countries. In result, the migration was not really worth the reward, because there is greater hardship in the new country.

However, what I am asking is, it is the fault of the French government for not supplying these benefits to new and seemingly exotic immigrants? Or is it just a continuation of the acts that are committed daily and internationally?

Within political and religious agendas of all kinds, we can find strong-willed groups with a perverse mindset. These groups commit horrible and atrocious to their fellow man. Im talking about all of it.

From American Protestants and the formation of the KKK, to the genocidal Buddhists in Burma, to the IRA a catholic body fighting the protestant agenda in Ireland. I could continue on and on with groups who 'in the name of god or country' have committed these unspeakable acts.

Of course poor living conditions do not help matters at all, but I really think fault lies in the human distortion and perversion of a religious or political agenda. I really don't think the French government's wrongful neglecting of its immigrants and sub-cultures is the root of the incident.

Once again,
Love and respect.

originally posted by: poncho1982

I agree 10% with the thought process that Saudi and Mecca should be leveled. They are the heart of the beast.

Take a short-cut, level Jerusalem, get the head of the Abrahamic Beast.

originally posted by: MKMoniker
a reply to: Hefficide

Excellent OP!

And in line with that thoughtful post, I'd like to add a little historical perspective. In the last century, the joke was that even if you were a terrorist or criminal or bomber, and wanted to immigrate, France would take you in. They accepted anyone and everyone who wanted to leave their residential countries.

"Background Briefing" today on KPFK (www.kpfk.org...) did an indepth review about the situation in France with a frenchman who has actually studied the situation extensively (not a sensationalistic 'pundit' just blowing smoke out of their pie hole).

We begin with the political fallout in France from the massacre of journalists and policemen that has French President Hollande calling for a national “unity rally” on Sunday from which the leader of far-right National Front has been excluded much to Marine Le Pen’s annoyance although in the pages of Charlie Hebdo she and her party were regularly described as “a clique of racist and fascist thugs”. Philippe Marliere, a Professor of French and European Politics at University College, London, whose main publications are about the French Socialist Party, French politics and European social democracy, joins us to discuss how French political leaders will resist taking the bait as the Bush/Cheney Administration did when extremists try to drive a wedge between Muslims and the West.

The part of the progam I reference, in it's entirety, can be heard here....

www.ianmasters.com...

I am regularly horrified by where people get their information and who they believe.

What is a certainty -

There is definitely a campaign to promote this idea of terrorism - happening.

Terrorism - by Islamist radicals.

When I say campaign - I mean hoaxed false flag events.

Whether the most recent one was, I do not know; and I am not saying genuine events do not happen.

After seeing the evidence of various posts here in the past - it is clear to me that the Boston Bombing was one false flag event, involving many many people to stage a fake event. (Which to me is bizarre.)

---

The only question for me that remains is - for what reason?

a reply to: twhite93

Thanks for the great post.

First of all, the REAL problem with Jihadists didn't start until Jimmy Carter refused to back the secular Shah of Iran. He fell and the religious extremists took over. It's been like dominos every since, except for the Saudis, who have a royalist government that is quite repressive for the general population. (As a woman, I couldn't visit even today, unless I have my closest/eldest male relative write a letting giving me "permission" to travel there.)

Another problem - for which I advise sensitive readers to stop right here - is that patriarchal Islam is heavily into old men marrying boys, and molesting them for decades. When grown, these molested young men are confused outcasts, and their aged molesters are dead. Filled with rage they can't express in Islamic countries, they aim their fury at the biggest patriarchal SuperPower, who thinks it's the Globe's Police Force: America.

Plus, even up to the last century, immigrants didn't necessarily travel to a richer foreign country to settle. Single, poor young men came by the droves from China with the intent of making enough money, and then going back to China.

Today, with so many elitist-stoked wars (and American Presidents have been in deep with the elitists since Reagan), immigrant populations are "war refugees", traumatized and fragile, with no plans beyond "finding a safe port in a storm." And all most natives want to know, is when the immigrants will learn their language and get a job. It's doing everyone a disservice if countries accept and then ignore their incoming immigrant populations.

The atheists have latched onto "religion" as a key ingredient driving the Jihadists - when other factors motivate them more, as I discussed above. Religions have always been a way for people to chart a course thru Life, and especially to find meaning and courage in forced change. Today, the Vatican only has great authority over Catholic countries like in Central and South America. And even then, most Catholics make their own minds up about birth control and divorce.

Just as the rest of us dine from the Religious Buffet, focusing on whatever makes this lifetime more meaningful and relevant. (I'm a Theist with great respect for all the Prophets, Jesus thru Mohammad to Buddha and even Confucious. I also believe in Reincarnation, and that the Bible spoke the Truth as it was understood at the time - as oral tradition was handed down in the later centuries.)

And the main problem for the world governments anymore, is not that they are all filled with malicious people, but that the global elitists - who are super-rich and quick to stake out their Agendas at Bilderberg every year - push for their goals instead of the General Welfare of the entire planet, and throw millions at their choice for President Toadie.

We need more world leaders who can decipher the best course for their country and people, have the courage to set priorities and stick with them, and dance the diplomatic dance with foreign countries offering Foreign Aid, to take humanitarian aid but NOT sell their souls to the greedy elitists and their puppets - like the U.S.!

a reply to: Hefficide

I am not being brainwashed Heff. I don't care at all what others call radical terrorism. I don't scare easy, so they're going to have to do a hell of a lot better than tell me to be afraid of people that do not have a history of terrorizing Americans on American soil, or ever will. I don't care what their religion is. They're idiots, and that includes the Saudi Arabian govt. If it weren't for oil they would all still be backwater hicks.

I dream of a day when the American citizens have had enough Heff.

........When they stop caring about the middle east because their government tells them to.

........When men and women stop joining the Armed Forces until the Armed Forces puts their priority in keeping troops on American soil in order to protect us.

........When the citizens stop voting and, instead, slowly fill Washington DC and demand that they listen to THEIR needs.

........When the citizens stop participating in what the "democratic" system has become until their peaceful demands are met. It's America. If we're free to vote, then we're free not to. If we are free enough to participate in the system, then we are free enough not to. If we are free enough to accept what the government tells us, then we are free enough to make the government accept what WE tell THEM.

Every man has a dream. That's mine.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Hefficide

Awesome Heff!

Saudi is really they people calling the shots and no one ever wants to talk about them and how much they fuel this.

You spelled ISRAEL wrong !!

a reply to: MKMoniker

Excellent explanation. I also read over the situation from a separate reply to your original comment. Thanks again for your informative cooperation and insightful answers, as well as mutual respect and courtesy.

Adonai.

This thread has headed in the direction I knew it would eventually go - one set of Fundamentalists exercising extreme intolerance towards another set of Fundamentalists.

I self-identify as a Christian, though I am atypical of the "average". I believe in the New Covenant - the Golden rule. Treat others the same way you would want to be treated. For me it is painful to watch other people who call themselves "Christian" arguing that other human beings are less than worthy of life. Hypocricy is what I see in it.

I wasn't given live to judge. I was given life to learn and to love.

Having said that, the threads progression does show examples of exactly what the OP states, sadly so.

Thankfully it also shows quite a number of people who don't buy into the idea of hating simply because they have been told to or because people are different or have different beliefs.

The high point, for me, was the member who basically said that my descendants will suffer horribly because I refused to hate today - somehow implying that all things evil are the fault of those with the ability to discern fact from fiction. A shining example of blind hatred and indoctrination.

As it happens I have two children, one adult and one nearing adulthood who, thank God, know better than to buy into the crap that the media spews.

I'm not suggesting a socialist approach, where a native is paid to hand-hold and walk every new (non-relative) immigrant thru the blending-in phase. But toning down the hostility toward exotic immigrants and traumatized war refugees could help, as would at least local governments researching how to match skills to open jobs.

And for foreign governments who take in highly educated immigrants - like physicians working as clerks in convenience stores - someone needs to at least steer them to organizations to help them get re-credentialed in their new host country. Show of hands: How many of you even knew about organizations like the following?

www.iseek.org...
EMPLOYMENT RESOURCES FOR IMMIGRANTS AND REFUGEES
List of resources - at least in forward-thinking Minnesota - for immigrants from different countries.

www.imprintproject.org...
IMMIGRANT PROFESSIONAL INTEGRATION
Mainly doing studies and surveys right now, but the facts are astounding.

www.miracoalition.org...
MASSACHUSETTS IMMIGRANT AND REFUGEE ADVOCACY COALITION

www.immigrationpolicy.org...
AMERICAN IMMIGRATION COUNCIL
"HONOR, PROTECT, PROMOTE"

If all you want to do is continuing hating and condemning, we'll always be at war on some level. If you truly want to embrace America's greatest strengths - our diversity and tolerance - then let's work toward THIS, the 1 minute Coke commercial that ran during SuperBowl 2013:

www.youtube.com...
COKE COLA COMMERCIAL DURING SUPERBOWL 2013

a reply to: FyreByrd

Thanks for your excellent, cut-to-the-core post. We need more "clear thinkers" like you, who can ratchet down the hate and accusations, throw in a little genuine history and psychology, and give a real-time appraisal of these dangerous situations.

Although I found the French comment odd, that their leaders will try and "resist taking the bait as the Bush/Cheney Administration did" when it came to declaring war on bin Laden and Iraq. Actually, the truth of 9/11 is more about elitists wanting to make millions by stoking up another war amid MidEast Oil riches.

www.warsintheworld.com...
WARS IN THE WORLD
There are hundreds of on-going wars all over the world, at any one point in time. Why all the focus on meddling in the MidEast? To appease the elitists, who can't wait to get their claws into Syria and a "proposed" oil pipeline thru that strategically-placed country, to oil-thirsty Europe.

The Bushes are old Oil Elitist billionaires, who have forged close ties with Saudi Arabia and even the bin Laden family. (bin Laden's father was in Texas decades ago, working on an oil deal with elder Bushes.) And George W's passive approach to the Intel about a "big terrorist event on U.S. soil" about to happen, told to him the summer before while vacationing at his Texas ranch, is very curious. In the days after 9/11, when all passenger planes were grounded, and between photo ops at Ground Zero, George W. helped bin Laden's lesser relatives get out of the U.S.

Cheney is the former CEO of Halliburton, THE Texas company that is the premiere housekeeping contractor in all wars since VietNam. He also had a penchant, while VP, to read "raw intelligence." So why did he not panic and start asking questions, when Intel Agencies knew the hijackers were training in Florida how to fly airliners?

Both have serious character flaws. George W. has engaged in S&M episodes while single. And Cheney drank beer for lunch while out hunting in Texas, then seriously wounded a fellow hunter by shooting him full of bird shot by accident. No surprise they have little sympathy for people in pain.

And by December 2001, bin Laden was dead of natural causes in Afghanistan. Neither Bush nor Cheney announced this, just to keep the (new) Iraq war going. Just as they let the CIA both continue putting out videos with a bin Laden body-double - as they supposedly "hunted bin Laden down" for SEAL Team 6 to kill him again (or most likely a male relative) in May 2011 at Obama's behest.

(The bin Laden compound was in a garrisoned Pakistani city where they trained their military. And they didn't know THE Terrorist bin Laden was staying in town? Get real! Pakistan knew the real bin Laden had been dead for a decade, and only bin Laden "relatives" were staying there!)

This pair were just "politicians" as usual, with more wealth-and-power-lust than respect for the truth, transparency or even attempting real leadership beyond speechifying. Their actions around 9/11 had less to do with letting extremists "drive a wedge between Muslims and the West," than staying focused on the greed and corruption of global elitists' goals, by deliberately stoking more MidEast wars.

Fox News interviews terrorism 'expert' Steven Emerson, who states that Birmingham, UK is 'entirely Muslim' and that non Muslims 'simply don't go in'.



This is simply not true. Is it propaganda being fed to the American public to feed anti-Muslim thinking? Who is this Steven Emerson?

Interesting.

originally posted by: Hefficide

Rhetoric and indoctrination leads a very small minority of Muslims into buying into the extremist view of martyrdom and they act.

What do you consider a "very small minority"? The top terror experts suggest that there are currently 65 million Islamists in the world, with a total Islamic population of 2.1 billion. That means there are roughly 1.45 billion moderate muslims versus 65 million islamists - this is not a "very small minority" this is a disproportionately large segment of people who read the quran and take its commands for exterminating non-believers literally.

a reply to: Kalixi

Sourcing that would help, as every source I've read places the global number of Muslims at 1.6 billion.

That's more a reflection on American News than any untoward attempt to mislead.

Last year some US news showed an image of the whole of Australia completely covered with flames saying that their bushfires were burning down the whole country - it was actually a supposed to represent every bushfire that had happened throughout the year.

Lets discuss cults for a moment. Islam is a cult, or at least what many of you call "radical Islam" is a cult. Personally...I'm confidant that all of Islam is radical but that doesn't matter in this context. Why a cult? A cult becomes a cult when someone tells a group of people to do something. You see...if no one is told to do something, it is a religion of beliefs. A religion says live your life well, be good, do not kill, pray to god, etc. A cult says to go convert others, dictate our beliefs to others or kill them if they don't convert. Religion is "being" and "living" in a particular way while a cult is taking action toward or against others. Therefore...Islam is a cult.

Religion is also about God. A cult is about another human being. In the Catholic religion, most of what is followed is the word of God. In Islam it is the word of Muhammad...a man. Sure, some people "follow" Jesus but the commandments are from God, not Jesus. Jesus (if he ever existed) spread the word of God...Muhammad spread his own words. You even hear it...cartoons of Allah are never an issue but cartoons of Muhammad are a reason to kill.

And finally...followers of religion tend to change their personal lives to reflect what they believe God wants. Followers of a cult blindly do ANYTHING they are told by the cult leader.

So...Islam is a cult and if we treat it as such, it will be taken apart, it's leader trashed and (with any luck) "believers" will disband. So as much as I hate labeling...label Islam a cult...which it is...and solve the problem. And with that I'll add another label..."Non-Human". Even outside this conversation, "Non-Human" is a valid label for some people. There are things you can do that are in-human and when such people are captured, they should be deemed non-human. No rights...no mercy...no sympathy.

Get tough on the evils in this world or they will become the normal. You are seeing it today with Obama calling terrorism "workplace violence" and others making excuses for people who don't even ask for it. WE decided there was moderate Islam...not the Muslims. WE made these labels up to feel better about a situation where the problem IS the Islamic cult...ummm...religion. WE need to stop this PC crap before EVERYTHING is acceptable or defendable. Race, religion, etc...these are NOT EXCUSES to be evil.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I'm not sure what event you are referring to that Obama called "workplace violence". There have been countless incidents over the past thirty, or so years that spring to mind which would qualify. Sometimes people snap and it seems, in the US at least, that they tend to go after family, fellow students or former coworkers when they do.

Are these acts of terrorism in my opinion? Yup. But workplace violence is also a valid descriptor for some.

Again, I just cannot find adequate words to point out the hypocricy of endorsing genocide against a people and then citing the excuse for wanting it as that they are genocidal.

If you feel that all Muslims are evil and that they should die? Congratulations - you've become exactly that which you think you are making a stand against.

a reply to: Hefficide
'
The one at Fort Hood is the most ridiculous example of our leader's stupid crap.

A muslim soldier kills 12 or 13 military personell and wounds many others. He both admitted his terrorist connections and reasoning as well as during the investigation emails between him and an AQ leader in Yemen we uncovered.

Yet, despite the admissions, the evidence, Obama the liar called the attack "workplace violence" in order to exclude those involved from the appropriate help.

This is the same individual (Obama) who failed to join the march in Paris in solidarity in fighting terrorism. The same President who issued a statement after Whitney Houston killed herself by drug overdose and was silent after the murder of Chris Kyle. This man's agenda is clear.

Let's describe a druggie, screwed up entertainer as a great individual (black, of course) and remain absolutely silent when an American Hero is killed trying to help fellow veterans. Obama is a POS. The faster he leaves office the better as far as I am concerned, May we never elect such a POS as this one again.