Let's Cut To The Chase, Cut The Crap, And Talk About Radical Terrorism On A Real Level

Hello again ATS!

Obviously it has been a very active and emotional period of time for all of us here on ATS. Tempers are flaring, and rightfully so, as shootings and acts of depravity that shock the very core of the human heart play out on an increasingly global and frequent basis. Those of us with maturity and souls silently weep over the lost lives, others come along to play the new game of trololololol - further exasperating the frustration that we, as a collective feel.

As a community we are comprised of individuals which means we all have our personal takes and opinions about what to think and how to piece it all together. This is natural and healthy. Even when those posts cross the T&C, ending up removed, with few exceptions the natural and healthy aspect still applies... it is only site decorum that seeks to keep the anger toned down to a civil and non traumatizing level.

Sadly, in some of our more desperate and emotional of moments, we become that which we hate. We seek to respond to heinous and barbaric acts with equal or greater heinous and barbaric acts. This, too, is natural. I know that most of us here try to walk the higher path and understanad that an eye for an eye creates a world of the blind where nobody wins.

And our bogeyman... Radical Islam. Our younger members will think back and count September 12, 2012 as the day this specter first cast it's shadow upon us. Others, a bit older, will recall the year 1990 and Saddam Hussein invading Kuwait. Others, still, will harken back to the Munich massacre of 1972. Others, even before that.

In our "war" to defeat "terror" ( how one wages war upon an emotion is beyond me, but what the Hell, Orwell nailed the future and he understood the concept ) we've bombed quite a few sovereign nations. We've run off the books operations in several others. We've threatened a few more. We, as a western people, brought back the war that Richard the Lionheart fought in, taking away the one goal he had - to conquer Jerusalem.

But here is the gigantic white elephant in the room. The question few seem to ask and most don't even understand. If we are at war with "terror" - assuming "terror" to be a code for radicalized Islam, then why are we still allied to Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of radicalized Islam? Why are our reporters not covering the fact that Saudi Arabia is the home of Wahhabism, also called Salafi. This is the heart of Islam and the home of Shariah law.

Dig deeper - and maybe some of our older members will also remember a time when we called Afghanistan ally in it's war against our prior bogeyman, Communist Russia.

When I was a child, the propaganda on television and in school had me totally convinced that my life would end in a flaming ball as nuclear missiles crossed the planet as the US and Russia mutually annihilated one another in a fit of stupidity. We were told that this almost happened on several different occassions and the fear was deeply impressed into our beings.

In hindsight we understand that it was all propaganda designed to make us hate Russia because capitalism just had to overcome communism. It was political chess and our fear was a necessary ingredient in perpetuating the cold war.

Now we stand, again, in a landscape of terror and fear. Only this time around the stakes have been upped a bit. Rhetoric and indoctrination leads a very small minority of Muslims into buying into the extremist view of martyrdom and they act. The war that Islamic groups have had going on with Isreal for roughly seventy years has taught their leaders, well, how to coerse the young into these irrational and extreme acts.

An effective tool, to be sure. A few dozen men, over the past fourteen years have become high profile examples. And those few men have managed to generate, in the west, such a frenzy that the media has had zero difficulty in turning that frenzy into a lynch mob mentality of blind, ignorant, ill-informed hatred.

Nearly twenty-five straight years of attacks upon the middle east from the US and it's allies have not done wonders to win us any friends in the Islamic world either.

It all serves to feed the fear machine. But who does it benefit? Certainly not the citizens of the west. We've lost freedoms, our sense of purpose, our moral compass, our compassion, and our ability to see beyond the hatred. Neither does it benefit the citizens of all of those Islamic nations that have seen their countries bombed to rubble and puppet regimes put in place of their former governments.

Some claim that there is an element in the US that is trying, very hard, to fulfill the Book of Revelations and speed the second coming of Christ. There are those who claim that some Muslims are doing the same to bring about the Mahdi. While I believe both of these theories are real and part of the process - they still do not address who is gaining from all of this.

But I can tell you who is. Governments and Corporations. Governments that are gaining more and more control over once free peoples and Corporations who are making record profits from the endless war and ability to exploit formerly off-limits resources and markets.

Bombing for peace my ass. We are bombing for Wal Marts and the public acceptance of a surveillance state.

We have been divided by rhetoric, manipulation, and lies - on both sides - and our house is falling.

How many here can discern the truth, see through the smoke and mirrors, and find the ugly truth lurking behind it all? When will we all wake up enough to understand that we are falling for the oldest trick in the book and that we are doing so salivating and foaming at the mouth with glee?

Hate is the most base of our emotions and the easiest to manipulate.

So I ask you again. If we are at war with extreme Islam, then why do Mecca and Medina still stand? Why do we still ally ourselves and sell arms to Saudi Arabia? The answer is quite clear to me. We are not at war with radical Islam at all. Nor is it at war with us. We're just seeing the pawns moving in a much bigger game and ignoring the real power pieces on the chessboard.

Thanks for reading ATS and I hope I've given you something to ponder.

Islamofascists hate us and want to kill us. If Medina and Mecca were full of our enemies we would take them out. We are trying very hard to attack the bad guys and leave the good, or at least neutral, guys alone.
why would any rational person shoot up a cartoon factory? We're not dealing with rational people.
sects of Islam interpret and teach that their koran dictates the murder of 'enemies of islam', as defined by their imams. as an added bonus they get a free pass into paradise if they die in such attacks.
doesn't help that so much of that part of the world is empty and underdeveloped with few career or recreation opportunities for young adults.
an empty and unappealing material existence can be made tantalizing with some religious mysticism, especially when indoctrinated into kids starting at a young age.
please don't buy into this concept of hidden powers orchestrating a false war on ______ (fill in blank) to keep the peasants occupied. this is real-world serious stuff.

I would like to challenge your perception.

People have been killing each other since the only weapons were sticks and stones.

Tribal warfare evolved.

Nationalistic warfare evolved.

Most of the nations of the world, even those with opposing philosophies, are at peace.

Some people still truly believe they are justified in killing over their beliefs about characters written in books hundreds of years ago. They are still living in a stone-age, mentality.

a reply to: Hefficide

Awesome Heff!

Saudi is really they people calling the shots and no one ever wants to talk about them and how much they fuel this.

a reply to: works4dhs

I'm guessing the Kool Aid tastes better than the acrid truth.

You are really Daryl Dixon arn't you Heff?.
Super freaking cool dude super freaking cool.
S&F

a reply to: Hefficide


Well spoken, who owns the corporations and our government? Answer that question and you find the barbaric truth. It is plain to see. What entity does our government answer to?

you have a valid point in re; Saudi Arabia. we have a handshake don't-ask-questions relationship with them; we need their oil, they need our money. supposedly the Saudis support these extreme Wahabbi-type schools to keep them occupied with anything but domestic politics (get those outside infidels, not your faithful royal family).
if it weren't for oil the whole middle east would be a fourteenth-century wasteland.

a reply to: works4dhs

I love the islamofacist word.

Lets just combine two words we know get people going and make them one!
Must of got the idea from hollywood combining the names of celebs dating

a reply to: Hefficide

The opening post in this thread, is the most important, the most required reading of any post over the course of the last seventy two hours, and probably an awful lot longer than that.

Hefficide, I could not possibly agree with you more in everything you just outlined. I think the major difficulty is that people just do not accept the fact that although it is right and proper to apportion blame toward perpatrators of such callous acts as we have seen over the last few days, it is not right and proper to blame an entire faith. People find it easier to continue to avoid imagining their fellow human beings with the appropriate level of complexity, in order to recognise that every human being, regardless of their demographics, is an individual, and should be dealt with as such.

Acts such as those which came to pass in France over the last few days, and the inevitable but futile reaction from right wing activists in the region, will only fan the flames, and I fear for the ability of everyone in the area to be able to keep their cool and recognise the levers being applied to them, for what they are. The truth is, that terror and xenophobia cannot be defeated with terror and xenophobia. Like the mutually assured destruction paradigm of the cold war, these things are self annihilating, and the only result, assuming a failure of all parties to work together to come to peaceful terms, will be devastation everywhere.

originally posted by: works4dhs
the Saudis support these extreme Wahabbi-type schools to keep them occupied with anything but domestic politics .

So, in other words, when the Western Powers need a distraction to divert people's attention away from the collapsing economies of the West, they just call on the House of Saud to send in an active distraction team. I was thinking myself, how odd the Oil Prices are falling so rapidly just when these teems are going into gear and keeping all of us occupied with talk of free speech.

You did a fantastic job in pointing out the obvious hypocrisy in governments and the very emotional issues we all are being confronted with. The only other speculation to who is behind this could be Majestic 12? Aliens? We are all slaves when we are divided in hatred. We need everyone to wake up. Peace can and does work and once the blindfold is removed from everyone, maybe the governments can't do this anymore! We need more accountability then just swallowing the same old msm garbage.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Agreed. And it's really bothersome to hear those blaming the peaceful Muslims for all of this. They are blamed because they aren't "stopping it" - when it has nothing to do with them.

Thank you for giving me a post that make take pause and really think about what I have been posting in the recent days.

A lot of things were said in anger, and I freely admit that. Perhaps your post will give others the same opportunity for self-reflection. Take all of my stars and flags, Heff. As usual, you are a voice of reason in an otherwise blaring echo-chamber of anger and hatred.

originally posted by: Hefficide


Why are our reporters not covering the fact that Saudi Arabia is the home of Wahhabism, also called Salafi. This is the heart of Islam and the home of Shariah law.

Correction. Saudi Wahhabi Arabia isn't the heart of Islam. This Royal family was setup with the help of the British and is currently protected by the US Government. Wahhabism and the actions of the Saudis does not represent Islam. Wahhabism came from a fellow cleric of the founder of Saudi Arabia, Ibn Saud hence why the place his offspring now rule is called Saudi Arabia. If I could, I'd love kick these hyprocrites out of Hejaz and make it an independent state that has no affiliation to any dictators and any other state around the world.

Saudi Arabia is merely a proxy, the right hand of the US government while the left hand is busy entertaining the sheeple.

We are not at war, not in the real sense its just there are some very powerful bad people out there who seek to do us harm, who happened to be using Islam as a justification.

A war with Saudi, would not be a War against Islam.

But this i do agree with you on, I believe that evidence of a Saudi involvement in 9/11 has been covered up by both the American and Saudi establishment to maintain a profitable alliance for the sake of the dollar but also to maintain security and stability in the region.

interesting thread.

Thought provoking

People really need to sit up and take notice that it is not their Muslim neighbour who is going to the Mosque 4 times a day that is their enemy, its those who want to twist their faith and abuse it. By that i am talking about both the terrorists who twist their faith but also the governments who use this to further their own agendas.

a reply to: kaylaluv

The way I look at it, I believe in Jesus, and back in the day when the troubles in Ireland were on, no one got in my face saying things like "Why can't you get your people in order?" despite the fact that both sides of that conflict puported to be Christian in origin. There is a very good reason why they did not say something like that to Christians back then. It is because the more people enter the fight, the bigger the problem becomes, the deeper the entrenchment becomes, the higher the parapet has to rise, until all that lies between is a crater strewn, corpse covered wasteland, full of unexploded ordnance and the rotting stench of decay!

Throwing people at this problem is not going to solve it. That, is what we call a meat grinder after all!

a reply to: Hefficide

Here is a decent and thought provoking thread and member. Not everything is lost at ATS.

originally posted by: Aliian

originally posted by: works4dhs
the Saudis support these extreme Wahabbi-type schools to keep them occupied with anything but domestic politics .

So, in other words, when the Western Powers need a distraction to divert people's attention away from the collapsing economies of the West, they just call on the House of Saud to send in an active distraction team. I was thinking myself, how odd the Oil Prices are falling so rapidly just when these teems are going into gear and keeping all of us occupied with talk of free speech.

No but if you want to take the heat off of your son, due to a sex slave scandal he has become embroiled in, and you are the richest woman in the World; what price some atrocity should occur that has an impact throughout the World? Just saying like!!

a reply to: Hefficide

I'm sorry Heff, but you are mistaken. Just as all the politicians are mistaken.

Islam is a snake that enters a rabbit's den to keep warm in the winter. The snake takes advantage of the friendly rabbit's warm home until spring when it's warm outside. Then it eats the rabbit.


You say you want to cut through the crap??
Well here you go; the truth about Islam: