Mayhem Grips Ukrainian Capital

jedi_hamster


EU is a police state.

Yeah, that's why i barely met cop on my travelling across the EUrope last year.People in EU have most individual freedoms in history of mankind.Fact.Your statement is a blatant lie and propaganda.

reply to post by dollukka


What if it is all of that rolled into one action, giving us what we are witnessing? And how do you explain the big EU flags among the far right/ Ukrainian flags? Clearly pro/anti EU plays a part in all of this. Also, the stupidity of a corrupt gov't doesn't help a damn thing either. Bottom line, things are not as black and white as we would like them to be. I feel situations, like this, and the others going on around the world at this moment, are VERY complex and likely have many players with many motives for supporting or going against the status quo.

With that said, I'm gonna go buy some gold and silver and stock up on few things. Not much else I can do. I can only hope that people already embroiled in these situations thought that far in advance as well.

reply to post by Sparkymedic


Ukraine is 144 th of 177 in least corrupted countries accompanied with Nigeria, Central Africa Republic and Iran.. this might give some insight how badly things in Ukraine are. If you were a citizen of Ukraine i surely wonder if you would keep that acceptable ? Russia is not an answer even it was a quick solution to goverment to deal some debt..it also kept President in power.
With EU people saw hope, perhaps cleaning the corrupted system and having a new starting point.

reply to post by dollukka


Fair enough. Re-watching all the footage, my empathy grew significantly for these people. They are are showing a significant amount of anger and hate towards the state. I do not envy the bravery on either side.

I hope I never have to face what they and many people on earth right now are facing, just to feel happy and secure. I hope only for peace.

I'm truly stunned at the reports of government sharp shooters firing on protestors.

Ok, things are getting out of hand on both sides, but to order police and military to fire on civilians is only going to escalate the situation.

How long before the protestors start to fire back and there is all our civil war in the ukraine? So far it's contained to Kiev, but for how long?

jedi_hamster
who was responsible for the ukraine separating from mother russia?

I take offence to that statement.

Russia has "never" been Ukraines "mother", far from it. Russia has been the wicked step-mother that has constantly treated Ukraine with contempt, using and abusing in every way imaginable.

If anyone wants to study History, Kiev was the Kievan state was formed before Russia was formed. Ukraine unbeknown to many has very very old and diverse history.........like ever other external threat Ukraine has encounters over the past millenia and a half, this one too shall be thwarted in the end.

Russia has no business in Ukraine as much as EU . This is not now anymore about EU integration, but more about removing the Russian influence and corruption out of Ukraiian politics once and for all.

SLAVA UKRAIHA!

reply to post by SLAYER69


I don't like to be the pessimist but I think the only way out of this is outside intervention, thus a possible escalation, if there is a De-escalation that would be a great outcome but something does not smell so good about this and when sharks smell blood and a possible feast for the taking they have a tendency to go into a frenzy, now who are the sharks I wonder and who will get the biggest piece ?

reply to post by Melbourne_Militia

Actually, I am curious about just what The Ukraine is, in a historic sense? It's not near as simple as I thought it would first be. Oh.. Not at all...

Google Map Result: Historic European Maps

A more focused historic map archive

In looking at maps of the area going clear back B.C. and all through the last 1000-2000 years, I don't really see Ukraine as a country or independent entity, even when counties didn't exist like we know them today. I happen to be in world history covering 1500-Present day this semester after running through Creation to 1500 last semester. Intense and high tempo courses, to say the least. A coincidence, and truly is, for what it's worth, but we just went through a snapshot of Europe/Russian/Middle Eastern history for changing maps over the last few classes and for the last several hundred years .. again. No Ukraine.

I honestly don't mean any slight though, because as true as it is for historic fact that the land itself has been Poland, Lithuania and Crimea for most of what I could see in history (and particularly the last several hundred years), "Ukraine" does show up as a label in some of the maps. It's a label within larger nations or empires controlling the area...so like a regional tag, but obviously more than that?

I figure I'll ask in class tomorrow, but you sound knowledgeable so I thought I'd ask now, too as it's so topical.

This may have been mentioned, skimmed quite a bit, but I did read some commentary elsewhere on MSM that Russia cannot afford to "give up" the country and especially not the Eastern portion, some speculation that "tanks will roll" once the Olympics are over and Putin takes the gloves off a la Georgia re-hash ... Doesn't really feel like the current Pres. is going to be gaining the upper hand on his own, especially with so many of the government "officials" bailing out or switching sides "in the name of the people" -- all he has to do is request help and Putin has an in.

reply to post by SLAYER69
Great thread Slayer! S&F! I see that the color revolution Oh,I'm sorry I mean this spontaneous uprising which has nothing to do with encircling Russia and trying to get to the oil in the Caspian.

reply to post by LadySkadi


No, Putin absolutely can't afford to give that up. I agree.

It would be like expecting the US to watch Mexico or Canada fundamentally shift against our overall interests by outside influence and not react to it. Errr.... Even this President wouldn't let that slide, and Putin sure can't afford to.

Ukraine is also critical to Russian natural gas supply into Europe and that is critical to a healthy Russian economy with a staggeringly low degree of debt. They can almost pay it with hard currency reserves on hand. A rather enviable position for a world power these days.

mike dangerously
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Great thread Slayer! S&F! I see that the color revolution Oh,I'm sorry I mean this spontaneous uprising which has nothing to do with encircling Russia and trying to get to the oil in the Caspian.

Well noted.

Oh,I'm sorry I mean this spontaneous uprising which has nothing to do with encircling Russia and trying to get to the oil in the Caspian.

It recently thats there agenda and goal but like in Syria they will fail.

reply to post by BalderAsir

I'm truly stunned at the reports of government sharp shooters firing on protestors.

I heard the opposite that the It was opposition that fired bullets and injured 20 officers.

reply to post by dollukka


Look whom else came along Pro Euporean Union Opposition supporter. You know whom? Bernard-Henry Levy.

They did tear it down. Took a while, but found pictures. Just translate the page if you can't read Russian/Ukrainian.

Lenin Statue Torn Down

It's funny that all of the US mainstream media I watch is on the side of the protesters. They're being portrayed as these people who just want freedom from corruption and then the government sent cops to beat and shoot them. It seems like the US media and government will back up any rock-throwing, bomb-throwing, cop-shooting group as long as they are against the "Old World Order." You can *always* find some group with a beef against a government, and with a little agitating, they can become violent. That doesn't mean they represent "the people" or that they are "good guys."

The government switched to live ammunition-that means they were first using rubber bullets, tear gas, etc., and it wasn't working. The "protesters" were still being violent. Then we have reports of police snipers. That's actually a sensible idea. That way, they can target the people wielding guns and throwing gasoline bombs. It's not like they are just randomly firing into crowds of protesters. At last report, the police and army are pulling out, which is great, because a lot of the crowd will come to their senses and go home, and the only people left will be the terrorists shooting and lighting things on fire. Then the army can come in and finish this crap off before Russia does it for them.

I don't live in Europe, but it sounds like the EU sucks. If you work hard, you watch your tax dollars going to bail out failed countries like Greece. If these protesters are in such a rush to join the EU, they must be freeloaders who want to get on the sweet welfare train. While the sight of police beating people gets my blood up, the idea that a bunch of violent wealth re-distributors can start a civil war makes me absolutely sick with rage.

xavi1000

jedi_hamster


EU is a police state.

Yeah, that's why i barely met cop on my travelling across the EUrope last year.People in EU have most individual freedoms in history of mankind.Fact.Your statement is a blatant lie and propaganda.

edit on 20-2-2014 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-2-2014 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)

I can just how grand the Freedoms are in Italy, Greece, Croatia are. Sounds like your Pro EU buts thats not so surprising at least one bit.

People in EU have most individual freedoms in history of mankind.

Indeed like spying on other EU countries and making sure your a member of the NATO alliance.

reply to post by dollukka

If you could be more specific what thread you are talking about.. when i find time i can read it.

Don't give me that nonsense that you cant find thread on this sub forum. The majority of other users can find in one sec.

Good luck debunking these threads on Ukraine.

Bernard-Henry Levy The Interventionist, Visited the Peaceful Pro EU Fascist Protesters/Opposition.



Remember This? Victoria Nuland In Leaked Audio, Don't Be Fooled.

Check out this before-and-after picture of Kiev Square.