Mayhem Grips Ukrainian Capital

jedi_hamster

dollukka
reply to post by jedi_hamster

 

Are you saying that Russian negotiators didn´t do his job in the meeting where he was at ? Don´t forget they were there too.
So are you suggesting that EU negotiators got russian ones on their knees and Russia will not be happy about this.. i am sure that Putin also was on the phone when these issues were negotiated.
The guy Putin sent was Vladimir Lukin.

edit on 21-2-2014 by dollukka because: (no reason given)

russian negotiator was probably merely an observer/adviser to yanukovich. as i see it (and feel free to disagree, but start reading with understanding and stop putting words in my mouth i didn't say), yanukovich had no choice. he's clearly pro-russian, but that doesn't make him moscow's puppet. if he would be one, he would call moscow for help already, but he didn't want to do that. so here's my guess what happened:

- opposition and EU ministers tell him to step down
- he says that option is not on the table, gives them an offer and either they accept it, or he calls moscow for help
- they accept his offer, because they have no choice

EU didn't loose this one yet, but it's not what they've expected. see, of course people of ukraine weren't extremely happy with yanukovich, but not to a point of creating such mayhem. those are right-wing extremists that created this mess, and they are to blame. of course, western media paints them as 'freedom fighters', 'representants of the people of ukraine' and 'poor, suffering, dying people' - personally i think military should hunt down and shoot down every single one of those assholes, that has any weapon at hand and a will to use it. peaceful protesters with molotov coctails, got it?

moscow was probably counting on yanukovich to implement martial law, and later (read: after olympics) on him calling them to step in. he's kinda screwed, because he wants to be friends with moscow, but without giving up his country's independence. on the other hand, since ukraine is independent, EU and USA sees that as a chance to install their puppet government, and uses right-wing extremists to create bloodshed, then mass-media to twist the reality, to have an excuse to do so. they did it in Libya, in Egypt (but that didn't end up too well), tried in Syria. if all that's left to prevent EU from taking over ukraine is call moscow for help, rest assured yanukovich will do it. so far he seems to be trying to avoid it.

as i've mentioned earlier though, and as was pointed out, moscow has frozen financial aid to ukraine. that's a clear signal to yanukovich 'we're not happy with the way you're playing this game'. and regardless of what he'll do, moscow won't allow ukraine to fall into western hands, that's not an option. it's possible though that they're playing it together with yanukovich - giving EU an offer they know will fail, because the extremists won't stop fighting - and then yanukovich will be able to say 'i did what i could to solve this peacefully'. will EU watch russian tanks rolling into ukraine doing nothing? we'll see.

This was started by left wing extremists.The right wingers got involved also but don't have as much of a say in it as compared to the Communists.(they have most the strongholds)
The right wingers just highjacked the riots in a free-for-all for power.

I will admit though that the media have been portraying the right wingers as 'freedom fighters' along with the left wingers because it adds to the mayhem.This is the first time i've seen the left wing media support ring wing extremists though.Very strange.

Anyway, i think the military should go around killing the left wingers as they are always the worst.

jedi_hamster

dollukka
reply to post by jedi_hamster

 

They are peaceful protesters by giving an aid. That is what that law made them, anyone who give any aid or support to protesters are also protesters. Beside snatching patients from hospital or churches is really unethical and brutal. Even in previous wars and war conventions there have been laws about injured people to guarantee their safety. Whatever happened in past few days in Ukraine has been quite serious human rights violations and crimes against the humanity.

Maybe those college students who started peaceful protest in last December but were brutally attacked by police force had no right to speech at all...

Molotov cocktail.. thats acceptable ? Finns used molotov cocktails in WW2 to exlode russian tanks and they made quite a damage

edit on 21-2-2014 by dollukka because: (no reason given)

i'm not defending any of the sides, all i'm saying is that those right-wing extremists, calling themselves 'protesters' and in reality being a bunch of terrorists and idiots, are the main reason behind all that bloodshed. if they wouldn't use lethal force against police officers (did you know that police wasn't using deadly ammo at the beginning? they were forced to do so), many people wouldn't die.

i am SICK of all this BS about human rights violations and crimes against humanity. you pick up molotov cocktail or a gun and start injuring police officers, you have every right in this world to get a bullet in your head. that is the law. don't like it? don't break it. russia was perfectly right that this was - and perhaps still is - an attempt to overthrow the government with violence. you blame the government for trying to stop the chaos? how about blaming those that CAUSED it?

i'm not even sure how should i understand your comment about molotovs, if you didn't notice - they were used BY THE PROTESTERS. if you find that acceptable, well. google some photos of people getting hit by those.

as for peaceful protesters giving aid - when you give aid to a murderer, you get what you've asked for. this situation is no different, and you call it unethical and brutal? and throwing molotovs at the police isn't brutal and unethical?

and please, don't compare those protesters to soldiers fighting in wars. this isn't a war, this is a random, unneeded clusterf.. full of blood, and they are criminals.

edit on 21-2-2014 by jedi_hamster because: (no reason given)

The protesters who were killed were unarmed though.

dollukka
reply to post by jedi_hamster

 

You stated quite clearly your opinion and use of violence towards protesters acceptable,
you made quite clear that

personally i think military should hunt down and shoot down every single one of those assholes, that has any weapon at hand and a will to use it. peaceful protesters with molotov coctails, got it?

also said

they throw molotov cocktails, they get hurt, they get what they've asked for. anyone giving aid to such domestic terrorists is also getting what he asked for.

i have not put words in your mouth i have just asked few questions.
My statement about molotovs, if you didn´t get it, were used towards heavy tanks in WW2 because they do great damage.. if they do damage to tanks they also do serious damage to people so how can that be in any mean acceptable?

use of violence towards VIOLENT protesters (and when there's no other choice - towards those aiding them) is acceptable. i didn't say anything else, so once again you're twisting my words.

also, use of molotovs isn't acceptable at all, but i'll say it once again - protesters were using them.

is it so hard to understand what i'm saying, or are you derailing my thoughts on purpose?

Viking9019

jedi_hamster

dollukka
reply to post by jedi_hamster

 

They are peaceful protesters by giving an aid. That is what that law made them, anyone who give any aid or support to protesters are also protesters. Beside snatching patients from hospital or churches is really unethical and brutal. Even in previous wars and war conventions there have been laws about injured people to guarantee their safety. Whatever happened in past few days in Ukraine has been quite serious human rights violations and crimes against the humanity.

Maybe those college students who started peaceful protest in last December but were brutally attacked by police force had no right to speech at all...

Molotov cocktail.. thats acceptable ? Finns used molotov cocktails in WW2 to exlode russian tanks and they made quite a damage

edit on 21-2-2014 by dollukka because: (no reason given)

i'm not defending any of the sides, all i'm saying is that those right-wing extremists, calling themselves 'protesters' and in reality being a bunch of terrorists and idiots, are the main reason behind all that bloodshed. if they wouldn't use lethal force against police officers (did you know that police wasn't using deadly ammo at the beginning? they were forced to do so), many people wouldn't die.

i am SICK of all this BS about human rights violations and crimes against humanity. you pick up molotov cocktail or a gun and start injuring police officers, you have every right in this world to get a bullet in your head. that is the law. don't like it? don't break it. russia was perfectly right that this was - and perhaps still is - an attempt to overthrow the government with violence. you blame the government for trying to stop the chaos? how about blaming those that CAUSED it?

i'm not even sure how should i understand your comment about molotovs, if you didn't notice - they were used BY THE PROTESTERS. if you find that acceptable, well. google some photos of people getting hit by those.

as for peaceful protesters giving aid - when you give aid to a murderer, you get what you've asked for. this situation is no different, and you call it unethical and brutal? and throwing molotovs at the police isn't brutal and unethical?

and please, don't compare those protesters to soldiers fighting in wars. this isn't a war, this is a random, unneeded clusterf.. full of blood, and they are criminals.

edit on 21-2-2014 by jedi_hamster because: (no reason given)

The protesters who were killed were unarmed though.

all of them? i doubt it.
anyway, i didn't say innocent people didn't die there. what i'm saying is that if those protesters wouldn't create such a mess, those innocent people wouldn't die. and now they blame the government for trying to stop the chaos, because innocent people have died. yes, they did. but who's to blame?

this whole mess is more complicated than it seems and i doubt we'll ever know what really happened. i saw a note amongst the live news from ukraine on one polish portal that one man dressed in berkut uniform was shooting at the protesters, then he turned around and started shooting at other berkut officers. most likely he wasn't from either of those groups. i'm trying to find it, but i'm not sure if i will. the question remains, who was he and what was he doing there?

reply to post by jedi_hamster

These were EXACT words of yours :

personally i think military should hunt down and shoot down every single one of those assholes, that has any weapon at hand and a will to use it. peaceful protesters with molotov coctails, got it?

And

they throw molotov cocktails, they get hurt, they get what they've asked for. anyone giving aid to such domestic terrorists is also getting what he asked for.

Im not derailing any of your thoughts.. those were exact lines of yours.

reply to post by Viking9019

Anyway, i think the military should go around killing the left wingers as they are always the worst.

I'm a little shocked that someone would say this sort of thing. We can bicker back and forth with examples of how both right wing and leftist extremists have done some pretty atrocious things, but to say we should send the military out to kill any of em is extreme.

The military should not be used against it's people under any circumstance.

reply to post by dollukka


good lord, do you have any idea what the word 'sarcasm' means?
'peaceful protesters my ass'. got it?

if they have molotovs and a will to use them, they are by the very definition NOT peaceful.
AT ALL.

reply to post by jedi_hamster


Sarcasm doesn´t come with cursing and BS.. maybe you should be more careful what you write.. actually i thought those words of yours are quite extremist and also felt sorry for you to been brainwashed by communist machine prior the Fall of communism.

and i mean no offense

here it is, the translation is poor though. basically, he was shooting at both sides.
scroll down to 11:01.

url.mn...

dollukka
reply to post by jedi_hamster

 

Sarcasm doesn´t come with cursing and BS.. maybe you should be more careful what you write.. actually i thought those words of yours are quite extremist and also felt sorry for you to been brainwashed by communist machine prior the Fall of communism.

and i mean no offense

edit on 21-2-2014 by dollukka because: (no reason given)

no offense, but you better stop thinking about judging others, it's not one of your best traits.
i'm not an extremist, i just find people behaving worse than animals and killing others for power to be disgusting. also, i'm far from being brainwashed, i just have my own opinion, which you don't have to agree with.

also, i was born in 1980, so i have no sentiment for communism. i have neither for capitalism though. both are just means to implement the one and only strategy those in power care about: divide and conquer.

Yanukovich seems to have fled the country.

www.flightradar24.com.../2c1d69f?&_suid=139302644813808179020097896689

This link works www.flightradar24.com...

reply to post by earthling42


If true, not saying it is as of yet [Needs to be confirmed] would be a major game changer

In twitter: US officials confirm President Yanukovich has left Kiev for Kharkov in Eastern #Ukraine."

If that plane what we see in radar is Yanukovich it seems to fly to iran..
now it turns..Dubai??

Today people on Independence issued an ultimatum Viktor Yanukovych. He should resign before tomorrow morning. The centurion said that he does not belong to any political parties and organizations. He said that those who died in the past three days there and a member of his hundred.
Man expressed outrage over the current agreements concluded between opposition leaders and Viktor Yanukovych. Maidan supported him. "The blood of the dead - at the hands of Yanukovych and opposition leaders conclude an agreement with him," - he said. "If until 10:00 tomorrow will not be a decision on the resignation of Yanukovych, we will begin an armed assault," - said the captain and left the scene. Note that the people who gathered today at the Independence, supported the ultimatum Man booed and opposition leaders who spoke to him. Today on Independence held a memorial service for the victims from 18 to 20 February.

Translation from ukrainian news source


Did this plane became top secret as it dissapeared from the map ? Do you still see it?

reply to post by dollukka


Yes, Dubai.

reply to post by earthling42


Well maybe he needs a vacation.. lavish one

Something wrong with the linking.. telegraph.co.uk says " Yanukovich has left Kiev to support base "

plane seems to be back in radar

It landed at Fujairah Airport.

maps.google.nl...,56.334844&spn=0.035634,0.066047&t=h&z=15

SLAYER69
reply to post by earthling42

 

If true, not saying it is as of yet [Needs to be confirmed] would be a major game changer

Slayer, I have no doubt you are very knowledgeable about things like this. Can you explain to the best of your ability what this could cause/change?

reply to post by dollukka


The fascists have won and i have seen the pictures to prove it and you want Yulia Tymoshenko into power if so that is very unDemocratic.

But hey lets be hoesnt McCain wants Yulia Tymoshenko because of her Queen like hair style and Pro EU polices. Lets ignore her crimes.

I am sure these protesters arent Nazis at all.

look more like right wing thugs!