Mayhem Grips Ukrainian Capital

Jeez. The truce really screwed things up. The death toll has increased drastically since that was announced. 70 killed today, with a total of nearly 100 for the entire week.

At least 70 protesters killed in Kiev

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — Fearing that a call for a truce was a ruse, protesters tossed firebombs and advanced upon police lines Thursday in Ukraine's embattled capital. Government snipers shot back and the almost-medieval melee that ensued left at least 70 people dead and hundreds injured, according to a protest doctor

At least 99 people have died this week in the clashes in Kiev, a sharp reversal in three months of mostly peaceful protests. Now neither side appears willing to compromise, with the opposition insisting on Yanukovych's resignation and an early election and the president apparently prepared to fight until the end.

reply to post by buni11687


I hate to say it but it really sounds like they're in a steep nose dive.
No chance of pulling up soon.

reply to post by xavi1000


Maybe that has something to do with the sudden rise in the death toll. Snipers and grunts with aks??? I'd shoot back too.

A certain trend is forming and it is obvious for me (sadly, not so much for others) - Western media outlets tend to show cops with AKs and snipers shooting protesters and the protester's revenge usually beating up a single cop. Now take a look at a Russian media outlet:

And the video is gone... Youtube saying: "This account has been terminated due to repeated or severe violations of our Community Guidelines and/or claims of copyright infringement."

So in short - it was a short Russian national news report showing the same scenario but on the opposite side - beaten up and injured police guards, protesters with snipers... Etc...

Notice something? There are indeed two sides of the story here... And they aren't what most people are blinded to think they are. On the same side are the poor people on the streets killing off each other like simple primates, while on the other are those above directing the whole script in action.

But the vast gap between the Western and Russian reports is beyond my grasp. Especially how obvious it is.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


If you could be more specific what thread you are talking about.. when i find time i can read it.

reply to post by beezzer

I totally agree with you.. its all theatre and visibility to each power puppet.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter

Those helmets are not rare in Europe, some of them have been war trophys and some are reproduction collectibles. Even today after decades of WW2 war helmets, granades and other items are still found around Europe in places where battles were. Finnish army also used German helmet during WW2 not only germans.
I don´t really see your point by pointing one helmet out among other helmets people wear there to have some protection. Just my 2 cents.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Which one's are brave? The one's behind the camera or the idiots in front of the camera who believe this is the way "out" with guns? (or just to effect change - remember Obomber rallied with "hope and change" - which is ironically J. Trudeau's (Canadian opposition MP) platform slogan as well - well there is change in the US but it is certainly NOT positive change and there is little to no hope). Like all protests, none have a viable solution to any and all problems surrounding each conflict they oppose/ create - just look at OWS - what a pathetic total failure of potentially educating the public on solutions to these economic woes - but instead you get hippies wanting everyone to be raggedy and poor like them. #ING IDIOTS! There is, in my eyes, an infinite amount of stupidity behind protest. As there is no means to an end. if this corrupt Ukrainian regime falls, another will just take the place. Hell, I live in Canada and it is the exact same crap since the inception of this country. People are the same, but the circumstances, banners and anthems are different. how is that "better"? The only reason this country is half decent is ONLY because of the technology which exists to make it so (in other words, we have somehow been able to fund and develop things to make life more comfortable, for most...certainly not all). Politics will forever be what holds back humanity from achieving greatness.

I don't care what anyone thinks of these people and their orginization, but they hit the nail on the head. And the protesters in Ukraine ARE fascists!



The KEY to what she said is: people have to WORK towards change. Not FORCE or COERCE or MANIPULATE...WORK. Anything else is futile and will eventually fail, because it will be built on lies and illusions.

dollukka
Those helmets are not rare in Europe...

I don´t really see your point by pointing one helmet out among other helmets people wear there to have some protection. Just my 2 cents.

Indeed, I found it a bit silly when others posting to this thread would point to someone wearing that helmet and say things akin to, "Oh look, that person must be supportive of fascist ideology because he's wearing a German WW2 helmet." That's nonsense. Personally speaking if I found myself in such a position as those protesters and only had the choice of an old army helmet, a pot from the kitchen or nothing at all to wear, I wouldn't hesitate to slap that old stahlhelm on my head. If it was good enough to protect someone's life eight decades ago, it'd be good enough to protect mine now.

i'm following this from poland, and here one well known portal said, amongst other things, that the most recent bloodshed started when one of the police officers got shot by a sniper.

police officer
got shot
by a sniper.

now, i know that one colonel with 50 men changed sides and aligned with the protesters. seriously, WTF else than a bloodshed would you expect to happen when a sniper shoots at police officers then?

who do you think is responsible for this mayhem?
who was responsible for the ukraine separating from mother russia?

now, when ukraine wants to give EU a finger, they do what they're doing everywhere else, together with the mighty USA. stir up internal conflicts, support 'the oposition', then blame the democratic government for trying to clean up the mess they've created.

how about libya? egypt? syria? so many lessons and you still have no clue.

EU is poking the bear though. mark my words, when russia will get involved, things will get very messy.

also, some valid points there:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

do you really think this whole mess is about ukrainian people and their wish to be part of the mighty EU?
think again.

reply to post by jedi_hamster


Couldn't agree more. Propaganda is a powerful tool. Canada just ratcheted up their sanctions against Ukraine and are promising aid to the "protesters". Oh, Canada.... HAHAHAHA WHY? WHY are we supporting ANY of this? THIS IS PURE STUPIDITY from both sides!!! Ugghhhh humans (mainly politicians) NEVER fail to amaze me with their infinite stupidity.

Sparkymedic
reply to post by jedi_hamster

 

Couldn't agree more. Propaganda is a powerful tool. Canada just ratcheted up their sanctions against Ukraine and are promising aid to the "protesters". Oh, Canada.... HAHAHAHA WHY? WHY are we supporting ANY of this? THIS IS PURE STUPIDITY from both sides!!! Ugghhhh humans (mainly politicians) NEVER fail to amaze me with their infinite stupidity.

this is exactly why people are protesting, they are not in complete agreement with the government, or just sick of them.
Wasn't Yanukovych elected in a democracy ?
Why just not reelect him the next time ??

BTW: those black dressed brigades with the yellow arm band are not the police force, those with kalashnikovs and sniper rifles...

As bad as the recent clashes are I think a revolution similar to those in the Arab spring is unlikely in Ukraine because of the age structure of its demographics. Young people make up a much smaller percentage of the population in Ukraine because of its demographic crisis in the 90s and early 00s when the birth rates were among the lowest in the world. Nations where a large percentage of the population are young people are the ones where violent revolutions usually have the most success. The planners may have overlooked this. That said, factors such as the poor Ukraine economy and the ethnic divisions are favorable for violent revolution and civil war. I hope cooler heads prevail and this is resolved at the ballot box.

reply to post by jedi_hamster


If that would only be that simple as a reason.. tho i don´t see why this would be a fake uprising as issues in Ukraine has a long history. Western countries getting involved to this mess is simply stupidity.

What really surprises me is that there seems to be so many people here who seem to prefer a police state.
There has been snipers from goverment side for example opposition leader got a shot in his head, this to me shows pretty much the lynching mood they have and something like taking out the key players point that some of these are pre targeted..

But can we really point our fingers when most likely there is both to blaime in violence. We are not there and we can only speculate.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I am so surprised that this is still going on.

I figured once Obama drew his line in the sand...again...and said there would be consequence's, once Putin got up from rolling on the ground "laughing" it would all stop............no ?

If someone isn't shooting at or otherwise causing bodily harm you don't shoot at them. Regardless of who is right or wrong - that is sort of common decency. So if people are mowing down those who are running away, or unarmed people who are doing nothing more than making a ruckus - or beating on people who have their heads covered and have surrendered - they become the bad guy. Maybe that is why governments are taking sides.

I'm left thinking what this would be like in the USA with so many armed citizens.. It would be a lot worse than this in terms of mayhem.. No wonder there are forces at work trying to disarm us..

If someone isn't shooting at or otherwise causing bodily harm you don't shoot at them.

reply to post by Dianec


I only wish that the LEO's and government armed agencies in the USA that will be deployed against law abiding citizens would follow that edict..

They sure haven't in the past..

reply to post by alienreality


I know - it is the power disease. I'm a little concerned about US involvement if only because it will upset Russia.
Might be a repeat but we are hearing from the EU and US that people will pay for killing protestors. Then I read comments like this from Russia and it makes me think of war.

"We cannot characterize what is happening in Ukraine as anything except a violent attempt to seize power," Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said. "Many Western countries, who have tried to interfere in events and played games with insurgents, are also to blame. The West has solidly, repeatedly and shamefully avoided criticism of the actions of extremists, including Nazi elements." abcnews.go.com...

dollukka
reply to post by jedi_hamster

 

If that would only be that simple as a reason.. tho i don´t see why this would be a fake uprising as issues in Ukraine has a long history. Western countries getting involved to this mess is simply stupidity.

What really surprises me is that there seems to be so many people here who seem to prefer a police state.
There has been snipers from goverment side for example opposition leader got a shot in his head, this to me shows pretty much the lynching mood they have and something like taking out the key players point that some of these are pre targeted..

But can we really point our fingers when most likely there is both to blaime in violence. We are not there and we can only speculate.

EU is a police state.
and western countries/EU/USA getting involved is pure politics.

ukrainian president did what's best for his country i guess - he rejected an agreement with EU that would leave ukrainian markets open to tons of cheap western crap - and by extension because of ukrainian agreement with russia - would make russia vulnerable to it as well, effectively pissing them off. instead ukraine got huge bailout from russia for their stance, and now people are protesting because he refused to allow anti-russian EU to screw over his country?
give me a break.

Are they attempting to bring down a statue of Lenin right now?????

Live Feeds - Ukraine

The top feed (Espeso TV) keeps switching back to a scene with ropes tied to the top of a Lenin like statue...it is streaming, it is grainy.

reply to post by jedi_hamster


Maybe you should take a look at the charachter Yanukovich is. I have already said this is not anti/pro EU riot this is anti goverment riot.

EU is police state ? Saying EU is police state is simply wrong as each goverment has their own police. Each country has budget to their own police.. follow the money. Generalized statement you have.. but not accurate.