Pay No Attention to the Man Behind the Curtain! Alleged Super-Skeptic Tells All!

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by The GUT

 

Why do you reckon the Government abducts cattle?
I mean, by their nature, mutilation cases are very low key.

There isn't much to be gained in the way of public perception (often remote locales with no witnesses given to an event that is written off as perfectly natural by the vast majority)?

It doesn't make much sense.

There are white papers out there from government sources that detail that cattle--especially in the western states where nuclear blast tests were done--are needed and used for radiation tests to include their offspring and future offspring.

These cattle must needs be free-ranging in wide-spread areas from subsequent generations. Check out the link to AlienBishop's thread and read his and gortex' posts.

These are not pet cattle. Each one is for sale - usually less than 500 bucks.

Do you actually believe the Govt. would pay that much for a toilet seat, but risk all kinds of stuff to secretely steal a few 500 dollar cattle they can buy six days a week year round at auction?

That is the epitome of absurdity.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
Do you actually believe the Govt. would pay that much for a toilet seat, but risk all kinds of stuff to secretely steal a few 500 dollar cattle they can buy six days a week year round at auction?

Actually, the "$800 toilet seat" is an urban legend, anyway. It was a form-fit plastic "toilet cover" for the head on a Navy patrol plane, mandated by the EPA to prevent slosh-out in flight turbulence. The "seat cover" version was developed by idiot newsmen who wrote for idiots. There's a lot of that still going around, alas.

Originally posted by Harte
...These are not pet cattle. Each one is for sale - usually less than 500 bucks.

Do you actually believe the Govt. would pay that much for a toilet seat, but risk all kinds of stuff to secretely steal a few 500 dollar cattle they can buy six days a week year round at auction?

That is the epitome of absurdity.

Harte

Only if you're not smart enough to frame all the relevant questions, or research such assertions out of impartial integrity as a seeker of answers.

For example, Can cows bought at such auction, from a selection of different sellers, be an empirically accurate test-benchmark when measuring;

1.) Radiation effects on cattle to the 2nd and 3rd generation?

2.) Radiation Spread. The scientists need to know exactly where the cattle come from.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Harte
Do you actually believe the Govt. would pay that much for a toilet seat, but risk all kinds of stuff to secretely steal a few 500 dollar cattle they can buy six days a week year round at auction?

Actually, the "$800 toilet seat" is an urban legend, anyway. It was a form-fit plastic "toilet cover" for the head on a Navy patrol plane, mandated by the EPA to prevent slosh-out in flight turbulence. The "seat cover" version was developed by idiot newsmen who wrote for idiots. There's a lot of that still going around, alas.

I'm aware of the accounting method explanation for that item, hammers, etc., and I believe it's true.

But it makes a good analogy anyway, so I went for it. LOL

Harte

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by Harte
...These are not pet cattle. Each one is for sale - usually less than 500 bucks.

Do you actually believe the Govt. would pay that much for a toilet seat, but risk all kinds of stuff to secretely steal a few 500 dollar cattle they can buy six days a week year round at auction?

That is the epitome of absurdity.

Harte

Only if you're not smart enough to frame all the relevant questions, or research such assertions out of impartial integrity as a seeker of answers.

For example, Can cows bought at such auction, from a selection of different sellers, be an empirically accurate test-benchmark when measuring;

1.) Radiation effects on cattle to the 2nd and 3rd generation?

Cattle herds are raised at a large number of public universities. These would create ample opportunity for any testing - legitimate or otherwise - by the Federal government providing the grants to raise such herds, obviously.

Originally posted by The GUT
2.) Radiation Spread. The scientists need to know exactly where the cattle come from.

IBID.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
Cattle herds are raised at a large number of public universities.

Since what year/vintage? Were these college cow herds extant when the bomb tests occurred? Where do they originally come from? How many of these University cattle herds are extant? How far apart are these herds?

Then in response to my item #2 above you say:

IBID

You didn't provide an IBID. You mean IBID yourself?

reply to post by Harte
Tell ya what I'll do, Harte. I'll call your non-existent IBID with a real one:

Distribution of Radiocesium in Cattle Body — Analysis Using a Compartment Model
Tsugiko Takase1, Yo#aka Takagai1, Muritsugu Uchida1, Kenji Nanba1, Tsutomu Ohtsuki1, Yasuyuki Muramatsu1 1Fukushima Prefecture; 1Fukushima University; 1Gakushuin University; 1Tohoku University

[Introduction] Radiocesium above interim emergency standard (500 Bq/kg) was found from the meat of Japanese black cattle that was fed with contaminated feed after the explosions ofFukushima Daiichi NPP (F1NPP) which made extensive pollution with radioincludies in mid-late March 2011. The followings need to be clarified to predict dynamics within the cattle for the establishment of countermeasure against the contamination: 1. Transfer of radiocesium from feed to the cattle (distribution within cattle), 2. Transfer of radiocesium within the cattle by the metabolism (biological half life). In this research, distribution of radiocesium within the body of cattle that was released in the restricted area when the farmers evacuated and lived for more than 5 months on the grass therein. A compartment model1) was applied to the radiocesium concentrations of tissue, urine and blood.
[Resuts and discussion] The correration of radiocesiumcon centration between blood and tissue(muscle) is shown in Fig. 1. Radiocesium concentration in muscle is 30 fold greater than that in blood. The 10-20 fold concentrations were found for liver, spleen, liver and heart. Radiocesium concentrations in each tissue is expressed in the differential equation…
smbe2013.org...

And I'll raise ya' another IBID. They don't just test on cattle, btw. And they're so considerate, eh?:

In the 1950s, people who lived in the vicinity of the NTS were encouraged to sit outside and watch the mushroom clouds that were created by nuclear bomb explosions. Many were given radiation badges to wear on their clothes, which were later collected by the Atomic Energy Commission to gather data about radiation levels.

en.wikipedia.org...

Oh, and cattle again:

Plutonium was also separated and purified for use in nuclear weapons, which resulted in the release of radioactive material into the air. Air polluted by material from the Hanford site traveled throughout Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and even into Canada.

Further contamination filtered into the food chain via contaminated fields where milk cows grazed; hazardous fallout was ingested by communities who consumed the radioactive food and drank the milk...

...The estimate of those exposed to radioactive contamination due to living downwind of Hanford or ingesting food or water that flowed downstream is as high as 2 million.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I'm curious as to what evidence there is of any DUMBs. As Vallee said, "Where does their waste go?", and one would imagine such a facility would have a thermal image that could be detected via satellite. I personally find the Dulce story to be very sensationalist and I question the validity of personas such as Phil Schneider and Thomas Castello. Schneider is a guy with quite extraordinary claims, and I don't believe that Thomas Castello has ever been proven to be a real human.

There are two things which don't make me completely disregard the idea; the fact that Bennewitz believed there was a facility gives me pause, and a thread here on ATS where someone mapped out seismic disturbances during Project Gasbuggy, which look suspicious to my untrained mind. As to whether an underground facility could be 'hollowed out' with underground nuclear explosions is beyond any geological understanding I possess.

As skeptical as I am, I'm not 100% willing to disregard the possibility of some underground facility at Dulce, although I would be more inclined to accept the existence of an underground U.S military base rather than a combined military/Grey/Reptilian facility.

Originally posted by The GUT
reply to post by Harte

 

Tell ya what I'll do, Harte. I'll call your non-existent IBID with a real one:

Distribution of Radiocesium in Cattle Body — Analysis Using a Compartment Model
Tsugiko Takase1, Yo#aka Takagai1, Muritsugu Uchida1, Kenji Nanba1, Tsutomu Ohtsuki1, Yasuyuki Muramatsu1 1Fukushima Prefecture; 1Fukushima University; 1Gakushuin University; 1Tohoku University

[Introduction] Radiocesium above interim emergency standard (500 Bq/kg) was found from the meat of Japanese black cattle that was fed with contaminated feed after the explosions ofFukushima Daiichi NPP (F1NPP) which made extensive pollution with radioincludies in mid-late March 2011. The followings need to be clarified to predict dynamics within the cattle for the establishment of countermeasure against the contamination: 1. Transfer of radiocesium from feed to the cattle (distribution within cattle), 2. Transfer of radiocesium within the cattle by the metabolism (biological half life). In this research, distribution of radiocesium within the body of cattle that was released in the restricted area when the farmers evacuated and lived for more than 5 months on the grass therein. A compartment model1) was applied to the radiocesium concentrations of tissue, urine and blood.
[Resuts and discussion] The correration of radiocesiumcon centration between blood and tissue(muscle) is shown in Fig. 1. Radiocesium concentration in muscle is 30 fold greater than that in blood. The 10-20 fold concentrations were found for liver, spleen, liver and heart. Radiocesium concentrations in each tissue is expressed in the differential equation…
smbe2013.org...

And I'll raise ya' another IBID. They don't just test on cattle, btw. And they're so considerate, eh?:

In the 1950s, people who lived in the vicinity of the NTS were encouraged to sit outside and watch the mushroom clouds that were created by nuclear bomb explosions. Many were given radiation badges to wear on their clothes, which were later collected by the Atomic Energy Commission to gather data about radiation levels.

en.wikipedia.org...

Oh, and cattle again:

Plutonium was also separated and purified for use in nuclear weapons, which resulted in the release of radioactive material into the air. Air polluted by material from the Hanford site traveled throughout Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and even into Canada.

Further contamination filtered into the food chain via contaminated fields where milk cows grazed; hazardous fallout was ingested by communities who consumed the radioactive food and drank the milk...

...The estimate of those exposed to radioactive contamination due to living downwind of Hanford or ingesting food or water that flowed downstream is as high as 2 million.

So, they abducted those cattle in the middle of the night so they could test them for radiation?

Yeah, I IBID'd myself. It served two purposes:
- I thought it was funny,
- I didn't have to type the same thing over.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
Yeah, I IBID'd myself. It served two purposes:
- I thought it was funny,
- I didn't have to type the same thing over.

Harte

Starred. I'll give you your IBID, after all, on your two items above. It is funny. And ballsy.

I once quoted myself in a term paper on Love for a tough-butt Psychology professor and it flew. So, you're kind o' growin' on me, but I do have to ask what you thought about my IBIDS? At least worthy of a deeper look before you rule it out?

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by Harte
Yeah, I IBID'd myself. It served two purposes:
- I thought it was funny,
- I didn't have to type the same thing over.

Harte

Okay, Starred. I'll give you your IBID after all on your two items above. It is funny. And ballsy.

I once quoted myself in a term paper on Love for a tough-butt Psychology professor and it flew. So, you're kind o' growin' on me, but I do have to ask what you thought about my IBIDS? At least worthy of a deeper look before you rule it out?

I quote myself all the time on forums like these, usually with a link that says something like "Link to comments by an amazingly well-informed poster." LOL

Look, my point was made by your "IBIDs." The government need not abduct cattle in order to experiment on or test cattle.

What you posted involved testing other people's cattle. Tests run due to the knowledge of possible contamination. This, obviously, is not what cattle abduction/mutilation, real or not, is about. If it were, the government could just prevent the sale of the cattle until they are tested, or simply take the cattle themselves openly. They don't have to sneak in at night in supernaturally quiet choppers.

As I stated, a large number of public universities raise experimental cattle herds. They are used in breeding experiments and as a teaching tool for Ag and Vet students. On the University of Georgia campus a small number of cattle were kept for the vet students. Larger herds were raised well off campus on University property.

I know of the former herd because one of the cows had a plexiglass window in the side. It was a weird thing. I was interested (though not a vet student.) Who wouldn't want to see the cow with the window in the side, after all?

The latter herds I know about due to my (now somewhat faded) taste for psilocybin mushrooms. These mushrooms have spores that have to pass through a cow's gut before they can sprout. A certain gang of miscreant students, of which I myself was a member, used to sneak into the off-campus fields in pursuit of this culinary "food for thought." LOL

These programs are run with Federal grant money. If the Feds need cattle with established and documented bloodlines - for secret experiments, for secret testing, or for secret strip steaks - they already own millions of them.

Harte

reply to post by Harte
Well that was quite a reply. Do you know of any government contracts to purchase such cattle? Or of the number--if any--of universities that have cattle populations from the time of the last atomic blast tests? Besides we're talking about mixing testing with cover for the possible top secret craft of the sort Bennewitz apparently took pics of.

I mean yeah, cattle mutilations might be a myth. But, then again, some of the cases are hard to ignore.

The 800 dollar toilet seat may be bogus, but the gov DOES vastly over pay for stuff.
When I was in I was buddies with the supply sergeant at my company and he was always going on about that.

In the barracks rooms for instance, they had it on the sheets as having 12,000 dollars in furniture in each room.
12,000 dollars for a bed, a dresser/entertainment stand, and a table.

No joke.
500 dollars a piece for those old school dinosaur computer monitors that were, by that time, already obsolete.

It is ridiculous what they pay to the "lowest bidder".

Originally posted by ImpactoR

And I will say, the idea that all UFO cases are used to hide actual real government coverups is bollocks and misinformation.

I don't think anyone is claiming that at all.......not even Mr.Oberg.

What certainly seems the case is that many secret military test and air crafts shortly after the second world war............were indeed the basis for many UFO stories perhaps circulated by the US government.........and once the notion is planted into the public consciousness then many more secret aircraft were misidentified by the public as ET UFOs.

As to what could possible be so important that it needs covering up............well certainly after coming out of the bloodiest war in human history, with characters as surreal and as evil as Hitler, and the advent of the atomic bomb........... yes ANY military advantage that the US possesses WOULD indeed warrant a huge effort to prevent the enemy neutralizing that advantage,
This mentality has simply been extended to this day and 70 years is not THAT long ago when cities were being destroyed on both sides..............so yep military cover up is a realty.......... the "stealth bomber" is proof of that.
Now that doesn't mean every UFO report is a covered up military event, but the US military has certainly played a significant role in the past.........and undoubtedly is continuing to do so.

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
Okay, another item that I'd like to see (whenever I get around to focusing on the Aviary...) is a recording of Bill Moore's presentation to a MUFON Symposium in 1989.

(That's the Symposium at which Moore claimed (or admitted, depending on your point of view...) participating in a disinformation campaign against Paul Bennewtiz).
...
The transcript should be fairly easy to find. The video may be a bit harder.

As I thought, the transcript was indeed fairly easy to find. (I'd still like to see the video or hear an audio recording.)

The first part of Moore's presentation is in:

“UFOs and the US Government : Part I” by William L Moore in MUFON Journal November 1989 at pages 8-16, 18 - online at:
www.theblackvault.com...

The second part is in:
“UFOs and the US Government : Part II” by William L Moore in MUFON December 1989 at pages 8-14 - online at:
www.theblackvault.com...

I'll embed below image of the first two pages of the first part of that presentation:





There was (at least) a third item in this series, in Bill Moore's own newsletter "Focus". I have a copy of that third item and will embed the article here if others are interested.

Mmm. I don't have a more general collection of the "Focus" newsletters. I may need to do something about that...

The AFU in Sweden has a set of those newsletters and have been very helpful with some research projects in the past. I may trouble some friends there. It would be interesting to read Moore's last newsletter.

www.afu.info...

Originally posted by Logical one
Now that doesn't mean every UFO report is a covered up military event, but the US military has certainly played a significant role in the past.........and undoubtedly is continuing to do so.

Your whole post deserves to be reread, but the above pretty much sums it up. Well-stated and on point, L1.

reply to post by IsaacKoi
Oh my. I can't wait to dig in. Will be interesting to compare the info from the speech to the newsletter and see how they hold up.

Thanks yet again for delivering us goodies. Can we nominate you for Knighthood? Sir Isaac Koi. It just sounds right don't it?

Originally posted by The GUT
reply to post by Harte

 

Well that was quite a reply. Do you know of any government contracts to purchase such cattle? Or of the number--if any--of universities that have cattle populations from the time of the last atomic blast tests? Besides we're talking about mixing testing with cover for the possible top secret craft of the sort Bennewitz apparently took pics of.

I mean yeah, cattle mutilations might be a myth. But, then again, some of the cases are hard to ignore.

edit on 14-7-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

The issue I have with this theory, is that these mutilations happen all over the world. Many of these countries do not even possess nuclear weapons.
Why would all these countries insist on stealing and killing cattle by the same method? Especially if their cows have not even been exposed to radiation?

There is also the Skinwaker ranch case where a cow was mutilated in the middle of the day, literally 300 metres from the farmer. Nothing was observed or heard during the mutilation except apparently the farm dog was upset which alerted the farmer to go back to the cow he had just previously tagged that morning.

Whatever it is, it's strange.

Richard Doty briefly refers to disinformation during his relatively rare interview on a C2C show (about Project Serpo) on 6 December 2005 with Bill Ryan.

Doty's appearance is at 42 minutes 20 seconds onwards in the edited version online at:


Doty discusses documents he claims to have seen about an exchange program with aliens and other tales. After about 10 minutes, he refers to his contact with Linda Moulton Howe and what he had to do (according to him) as part of his counter intelligence duties and briefly mentions disinformation.

A downloadable copy of that show is at a link given in a blog post at:
grayking7.blogspot.co.uk...

Doty gave more details on an earlier Coast to Coast show, with Greg Bishop, on Sunday 27 February 2005.

That show is a little bit harder to find, but I've found a copy online at a link in the blog post below. Doty came on the show 1 hour 10 minutes and 30 seconds into that show. He discusses Paul Bennewitz, AFOSI disinformation etc

grayking7.blogspot.co.uk...

Enter counter-intelligence officer Richard Doty, a surprise guest who joined the discussion with Art and Bishop. Doty contends that Bennewitz was close to uncovering top military secrets, so the government began a disinformation campaign against him to keep him believing the signals and lights were of alien origin. Bennewitz eventually ended up in mental institution for several months, a tragedy for which Doty feels some remorse.

Doty also claims to have personally fed lies and disinformation to frequent Coast guest Linda Moulton Howe

Originally posted by BullwinkleKicksButt
The issue I have with this theory, is that these mutilations happen all over the world. Many of these countries do not even possess nuclear weapons.
Why would all these countries insist on stealing and killing cattle by the same method? Especially if their cows have not even been exposed to radiation?

Yeah, that has to be taken into consideration. Good question. I'm picky about which cases I find sufficiently documented enough to fit an unexplainable classification though.

There is also the Skinwaker ranch case where a cow was mutilated in the middle of the day, literally 300 metres from the farmer. Nothing was observed or heard during the mutilation except apparently the farm dog was upset which alerted the farmer to go back to the cow he had just previously tagged that morning.

Whatever it is, it's strange.

While I find Skinwalker Ranch interesting, it falls more into the paranormal range, eh? If we link Skinwalker to UFO phenomenon in any way, then we have to admit we are moving into the Vallee and Keel end of the spectrum, no?

However, I can't buy the Skinwalker materials as of yet. I am interested in Bigelow and his relation to the UFO/Paranormal arena as well as his connections to the CIA and such.