Pay No Attention to the Man Behind the Curtain! Alleged Super-Skeptic Tells All!

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by Toxicsurf
According to Greg Bishop,(who was told by Moore) the Falcon was OSS and CIA veteran Harry August Rositzke (who was already deceased by the time of the announcement a little over a year ago)...

One of the numerous podcasts with Greg talking about it...radiomisterioso.com...

As I have come to understand it, Toxic, Rositzke may have been the original "Falcon" but that Doty was the character known as Falcon on UFO Cover Up.

That is an important distinction to be aware of if true.

Yes, I dont think anyone believed the "real" falcon was there for the taping of that show...Though I thi k it was Moore (or Emenegger) that hinted he was possibly there in the audience...

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
...and re-reading Mark Pilkington's stimulating book Mirage Men and Greg Bishop well-known "Project Beta" - when I turned to focus on the Aviary after finishing writing a couple of other long threads...

...In fact, I've made a small pile of Aviary related books to re-read (including quite a few remote viewing books that have quite a bit of material on some of the characters involved, e.g. Kit Green etc) and have bought, and started on, X-Descending at the moment, following CardDown's recommendation.

Yeah, good call, I'll reread those two, right after X Descending myself.

I also finished Reading the Enemy's Mind: Inside Star Gate: America's Psychic Espionage Program by Paul Smith a few months ago after you suggested it, Isaac. A very worthwhile read. Aviary folk all around them RV programs, too, hmmm.

Col. John B. Alexander w/copy of Reading the Enemy's Mind

I made notes & highlighted quotes and I'll try and review those soon for any pertinent items to discussion here and on other threads.

Originally posted by Toxicsurf
Yes, I dont think anyone believed the "real" falcon was there for the taping of that show...Though I thi k it was Moore (or Emenegger) that hinted he was possibly there in the audience...

Nope, in this instance Bill Moore directly identifies the "Falcon" in shadow with voice distorted as THE Falcon. Start at 1:02:47 but I've transcribed the relevant snippet here:

Bill Moore: …he convinced me he was a government intelligence agent and wanted to begin disseminating some information about UFOs to the public.

Mike Farrell: "The man Bill is referring to is Falcon whom we've seen in shadow to protect his identity.

Bill Moore: That's right…

And we know, without much doubt, that the man in shadow with voice distorted known as Falcon on the show was Rick Doty.Thusly, I think we have to hold Bill Moore to that statement unless proven otherwise.

Getting back to the military using UFOs as cover stories, does almost count? Here's a case where it was considered:

Telegram from PBSUCCESS headquarters in Florida to C.I.A. headquarters, Jan. 30, 1954:

White Paper [issued by the Guatemalan government] has effectively exposed certain aspects of
PBSUCCESS . . . If possible, fabricate big human interest story, like flying saucers, birth sextuplets in remote area to take play away.

Also, Nick Redfern has written about an episode where the US Army smuggled out crown jewels under the cover that they were flying saucer parts:
Nick Redfern: The Curious Klondike Caper
Can you guess Nick's source for this material? "Far Out" magazine, vol.1, # 1, in an article, "The Crown of St. Stephens and Crashed UFOs: The Oldest UFO-Disinformation Case on Record" by William L. Moore! Moore himself provides no documentation, but refers to

...a formerly Top Secret U.S. State Department "Memorandum to file" dated March 25, 1953...

Moore has left fingerprints on everything!

Double posting error!

reply to post by The GUT


I was referring to much more recent statements, I think it was on one of the Radio Misterioso podcasts. Not during the show, which was basically.......a show...

Originally posted by Toxicsurf
I was referring to much more recent statements, I think it was on one of the Radio Misterioso podcasts. Not during the show, which was basically.......a show...

Don't get me wrong, ToxicSurf, you don't chime in much on the boards but when you do, I've learned to listen and check your leads.

However, in this case, I propose we have to hold Moore accountable to his statement on the "show." I can't see Bill Moore, after all the hoopla about spilled secrets, being able to make much of a defense as regards his journalistic and personal integrity by excusing them away with, "It was just a TV show!"

I really like and respect Greg Bishop. But I also feel he needs to hold Bill Moore to that statement and not himself push Harry Rositzke as Falcon unless something rather solid and impressive comes along.

Like I said before: I have no doubt Doty was a foot-soldier, basically, and therefore had a chain-of-command above him...did Moore meet him though? That's the question that UFO Cover Up Live calls into question.

Moore video disinformation:

The UFO Experience Sept. 10, 1982 TV documentary directed by Ron Lakis (also field producer), written and produced by Richard Saiz.

"The UFO Experience" is an excellent hour-long documentary created by San Francisco TV station KPIX and shown on that station in September. It presents an overview of the UFO situation, and includes on camera Hynek, Klass, Lawson, Haines, and Schuessler. It selected four "typical" cases — the Shannon Davis case (a local pilot sighting), the Del Duca "abduction," Cash/Landrum, and the New Zealand lights. Peter Coyote, who played the part of a UFO investigator in the movie "E.T.," served as host. Ron Lakis, the producer...

(from MUFON Journal. NOTE: This was written about in Clear Intent, as it was the debut of the Doty/Moore Aquarius document. Show was later syndicated.)

In the late spring of 1982, (Bill) Moore was hired by KPIX-TV, in San Francisco, as a consultant for a UFO special. In June, Moore brought Jaime Shandera (a television producer) and Stanton Friedman (nuclear physicist and UFO lecturer) into his research efforts. Moore supplied KPIX-TV with a copy of the Project Aquarius Document.

Watch The Skies by Curtis Peebles




I thought the documentary was pretty good. Other than the "Aquarius Document" is there anything that stands out as planted disinformation?

Originally posted by CardDown
I thought the documentary was pretty good. Other than the "Aquarius Document" is there anything that stands out as planted disinformation?

Looks interesting, I'll check it out for sure. I've made some progress into X Descending, so I look forward to talking with you at your thread Paul Bennewitz case re-opened: X Descending (a mini book review) and here, some, too.

reply to post by CardDown

That was a pretty good show! Thanks, Card.

Lots of good questions asked, pro & con, and theories explored. There were one or two real attempts at science here and there.

The historical value alone: Cash-Landrum, Hynek. Richard Haines, New Zealand UFO, Maccabee, Tehran UFO, and, then, quite unavoidably, sigh, Kirtland. Doh! Or should I say "Doh-Tee!" in that instance.

I did find it humorous, or maybe too deep for me, that PaPa Hynek referred to Freud and compared ufology to psychoanalysis!

Those Cash-Landrum interviews were gripping. It happened pretty much as they tell it, is the way I see it.

How has the New Zealand sighting fared over the years---anyone know? Has it stood up to criticisms?



I really liked what Dr. Richard Haines said at about 49 minutes in, in a plea to his fellow scientists to keep an open mind:

Because we're dealing with a phenomenon we don't understand, and because of that we need to keep every avenue open in terms of the approach taken…it might take physics, some breakthrough in molecular physics, say, or plasma physics, it might take some understandings of the psyche, of the unconscious, it might take a combination of the two. It might take some totally new field of science we don't have yet.

And PaPa Hynek made up for Freud with his speech at 50:09:

Ufology today is in the state that I would say chemistry was when chemistry was alchemy. A mixture of superstition, wild ideas, unproved claims, and yet out of that whole mess, finally, the very first-class science of chemistry evolved.

And I think the same sort of thing is gonna happen eventually with ufology…but right now it is a mess. A fantastic amount of wishful thinking, of pseudo-science,of pseudo-religion, of cultism, but eventually I think that will all, finally, sink to the bottom and we'll have, out of that whole thing, a clear liquid of something we can really see, and I hope, understand."

Some material by Richard Doty...

Mark Pilkington's entertaining book "Mirage Men" refers (in Chapter 9, entitled "Rick") to inconsistencies between a letter by Rick Doty written in 1989 and an article by him published in 2006.

I've found the text of both items online, so thought it worth sharing the links.

The purported text of the 3 March 1989 letter is at:

http://j_kidd.tripod.com/b/179.html

While assigned to duties with AFOSI at Kirtland AFB, NM, I did
investigate a number of UFO sightings. However, my normal duties were
that of an counterintelligence investigator. I did not devote my
entire time to the conduct of UFO investigations.
At present, my job deals with investigations and I do work for a
Government agency. However, I do not have anything to do with UFO
research or investigations.

My own personal beliefs regarding the subject of UFO is this.
I think Earth is not the only planet in the Universe that supports
intelligent life. Whether Earth has been visited in the past by
visitors from other planets I simply don't have enough information
to make a personal decision. If I should base my decision on
information that I had access to during my Government Service, I would
have to say, yes, Earth has been visited. However, I am not 100
percent certain that the information I had access to was entirely
accurate.

The text of Doty's 2006 article (published in the February 2006 of UFO Magazine) is on the Serpo website at:
www.serpo.org...

In early 1979, after arriving at Kirtland Air Force Base as a young special agent with AFOSI, I was assigned to the counterintelligence division of AFOSI District 17. I was briefed into a special compartmented program. This program dealt with United States government involvement with extraterrestrial biological entities. During my initial briefing I was given the complete background of our government's involvement with EBEs.

This background included information on the Roswell incident, which did indeed state that two crash sites were found. The first crash site was located southeast of Corona and the second site was found south of Datil. Basically, this was exactly the same information that Mr. Anonymous released.

Other details about the location of the bodies and the site where the live entity was discovered were also mentioned. I learned these details in 1979 and can con- firm that Mr. Anonymous did indeed state information that was previously unknown to the public. The fact that the bodies were taken to Los Alamos and that Sandia Base handled the second site were not known publicly in the past. This information is quite correct.

During a briefing in 1984 I read a document which mentioned an exchange program between an alien race and twelve U.S. military personnel. The briefing did not mention any specific details of the exchange program, but it did refer to the program lasting from 1965 to 1978.

I tried to obtain more information during a Pentagon briefing in 1985, but I was told I didn't have the proper clearance for that information. I retired in 1988 and with one exception, I never learned anything further about the subject until very recently.

reply to post by The GUT


Thanks Gut. Really dig that Hynek quote...

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
Some material by Richard Doty...

Mark Pilkington's entertaining book "Mirage Men" refers (in Chapter 9, entitled "Rick") to inconsistencies between a letter by Rick Doty written in 1989 and an article by him published in 2006.

I've found the text of both items online, so thought it worth sharing the links.

Poor, Rick. It's fairly obvious that he knows nothing about UFOs. About how to use and abuse the phenomenon, however...he's probably one o' the greats!

He's like a G. Gordon Liddy without the personality: Interesting, even revealing, but not for the reasons he claims he is.

Originally posted by Harte
...These are not pet cattle. Each one is for sale - usually less than 500 bucks.

Do you actually believe the Govt. would pay that much for a toilet seat, but risk all kinds of stuff to secretely steal a few 500 dollar cattle they can buy six days a week year round at auction?

That is the epitome of absurdity.

Harte

Well, well, Harte, look what just turned up: Chaff, Radiation, Biological Diseases, and Government Cow Mutilations? Looks like Greg Valdez, son of Gabe Valdez is about to set the record straight.

Check out Torsion's thread.

Dulce Base - upcoming book by Greg Valdez

And, Harte, don't miss Greg Bishop interviewing Greg Valdez on Radio Misterioso. It gives some good info on why the cattle weren't bought at auction or culled from university herds and promises some good documentation:

Greg Valdez: Dulce Base

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by Harte
...These are not pet cattle. Each one is for sale - usually less than 500 bucks.

Do you actually believe the Govt. would pay that much for a toilet seat, but risk all kinds of stuff to secretely steal a few 500 dollar cattle they can buy six days a week year round at auction?

That is the epitome of absurdity.

Harte

Well, well, Harte, look what just turned up: Chaff, Radiation, Biological Diseases, and Government Cow Mutilations? Looks like Greg Valdez, son of Gabe Valdez is about to set the record straight.

Check out Torsion's thread.

Dulce Base - upcoming book by Greg Valdez

And, Harte, don't miss Greg Bishop interviewing Greg Valdez on Radio Misterioso. It gives some good info on why the cattle weren't bought at auction or culled from university herds and promises some good documentation:

Greg Valdez: Dulce Base

No thanks.

Father-son conspiracy theory profiteering isn't my style.

I prefer to read fiction that admits to itself.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by Harte
...These are not pet cattle. Each one is for sale - usually less than 500 bucks.

Do you actually believe the Govt. would pay that much for a toilet seat, but risk all kinds of stuff to secretely steal a few 500 dollar cattle they can buy six days a week year round at auction?

That is the epitome of absurdity.

Harte

Well, well, Harte, look what just turned up: Chaff, Radiation, Biological Diseases, and Government Cow Mutilations? Looks like Greg Valdez, son of Gabe Valdez is about to set the record straight.

Check out Torsion's thread.

Dulce Base - upcoming book by Greg Valdez

And, Harte, don't miss Greg Bishop interviewing Greg Valdez on Radio Misterioso. It gives some good info on why the cattle weren't bought at auction or culled from university herds and promises some good documentation:

Greg Valdez: Dulce Base

No thanks.

Father-son conspiracy theory profiteering isn't my style.

I prefer to read fiction that admits to itself.

Harte

Yeah, hard for some folk to eat their words. I understand. Why not read it before you judge? I'll gladly buy you a copy. If you find it unbelievable then you can address the assertions and refute from knowledge...not the current guesserology you are using...self-IBID's and all.

At least listen to the interview. Peace, though, brother, I appreciate our intellectual sword-play.

reply to post by The GUT
*Comic relief enters the thread*

Dueling Light Sabers

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by Harte
...These are not pet cattle. Each one is for sale - usually less than 500 bucks.

Do you actually believe the Govt. would pay that much for a toilet seat, but risk all kinds of stuff to secretely steal a few 500 dollar cattle they can buy six days a week year round at auction?

That is the epitome of absurdity.

Harte

Well, well, Harte, look what just turned up: Chaff, Radiation, Biological Diseases, and Government Cow Mutilations? Looks like Greg Valdez, son of Gabe Valdez is about to set the record straight.

Check out Torsion's thread.

Dulce Base - upcoming book by Greg Valdez

And, Harte, don't miss Greg Bishop interviewing Greg Valdez on Radio Misterioso. It gives some good info on why the cattle weren't bought at auction or culled from university herds and promises some good documentation:

Greg Valdez: Dulce Base

No thanks.

Father-son conspiracy theory profiteering isn't my style.

I prefer to read fiction that admits to itself.

Harte

Yeah, hard for some folk to eat their words. I understand. Why not read it before you judge? I'll gladly buy you a copy. If you find it unbelievable then you can address the assertions and refute from knowledge...not the current guesserology you are using...self-IBID's and all.

At least listen to the interview. Peace, though, brother, I appreciate our intellectual sword-play.

I haven't read the book, but I'm struggling to believe top secret military research by steeling cows in the middle of the night and then returning them.
Besides that, the effects of radiation exposure are already well established.

I've said it before but this is occurring all over the planet even in countries that do not have nuclear weapons.
I'm not buying it.

Originally posted by BullwinkleKicksButt
I haven't read the book, but I'm struggling to believe top secret military research by steeling cows in the middle of the night and then returning them.
Besides that, the effects of radiation exposure are already well established.

I've said it before but this is occurring all over the planet even in countries that do not have nuclear weapons.
I'm not buying it.

Do you have a theory about the mutilations? Coyotes/Predators? Aliens? If neither of those then what? The evidence builds for government participation.

You ask a lot of good questions around the boards, Bullwinkle, but it's probably time for you to start digging into some deeper reading and self-research.

I understand folks hesitation about this, but I also feel this book has the potential to clarify things and change some minds. Check out the podcast interview:

Greg Valdez: Dulce

I offer you the same as I did Harte: I'll be glad to gift you a copy when it comes out and then we can discuss these issues from that angle pro or con.

My reason for being obsessed with those who would feed us disinformation isn't because I don't believe in the anomalous nature of the UFO phenomenon, but because I do. Passionately. Therefore I DESPISE those that would feed us lies and muddy the waters.

If we're gonna get anywhere as regards this--our greatest modern mystery--we have to clean the dookie off the floor so we can focus on real anomalies and not get caught up chasing myths concocted by intelligence dis-informationists.

Anyway, check out that podcast. I think Greg Valdez' intelligence and sincerity comes through. I'll reserve final judgement until I've read the book myself, though, but it sounds fairly promising. Peace, Amigo.

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by Harte
...These are not pet cattle. Each one is for sale - usually less than 500 bucks.

Do you actually believe the Govt. would pay that much for a toilet seat, but risk all kinds of stuff to secretely steal a few 500 dollar cattle they can buy six days a week year round at auction?

That is the epitome of absurdity.

Harte

Well, well, Harte, look what just turned up: Chaff, Radiation, Biological Diseases, and Government Cow Mutilations? Looks like Greg Valdez, son of Gabe Valdez is about to set the record straight.

Check out Torsion's thread.

Dulce Base - upcoming book by Greg Valdez

And, Harte, don't miss Greg Bishop interviewing Greg Valdez on Radio Misterioso. It gives some good info on why the cattle weren't bought at auction or culled from university herds and promises some good documentation:

Greg Valdez: Dulce Base

No thanks.

Father-son conspiracy theory profiteering isn't my style.

I prefer to read fiction that admits to itself.

Harte

Yeah, hard for some folk to eat their words. I understand. Why not read it before you judge? I'll gladly buy you a copy. If you find it unbelievable then you can address the assertions and refute from knowledge...not the current guesserology you are using...self-IBID's and all.

At least listen to the interview. Peace, though, brother, I appreciate our intellectual sword-play.

As I indicated, ufology isn't really my thing.

I believe I've also previously said that it doesn't irk me for anyone else to believe whatever they want on the subject.

The cottage industry, however, is too much for me. I only visit this section of the forum to check threads about aliens in the ancient past. I'm not exactly a nonbeliever regarding modern sightings. But, IMO, much of it is garbage. Including Dulce.

Not that I care deeply about that either way. There's only so much time, after all. I leave this sort of thing to folks that can spend more time on it while I loll around the ancient civ section most of the time.

Harte