Iran’s cutting-edge Fighter a hoax, critics claim

reply to post by neformore


There's actually a really good article at Aviationintel that pretty much talks about just this.

reply to post by Zaphod58


That was a good read.

The guy seamed bit upset in the way he wrote it

reply to post by spy66


I know how he feels. It's insane how if it's not American it's crap anymore. The US has a great military, and I love following it, but the people that think we're going to be able to roll over whoever we want to, at will, are in for a shock when we don't the next time we're in a war.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by spy66

 

I know how he feels. It's insane how if it's not American it's crap anymore. The US has a great military, and I love following it, but the people that think we're going to be able to roll over whoever we want to, at will, are in for a shock when we don't the next time we're in a war.

True.

I think the writer brought up a very good point when he said that: Iran is adapting to its blockaid and military threat.

Now i have just heard that the blockaid probably aint all it is made out to be. I have heard that the US is actually still buying Iranian oil. Not directly from Iran, but through other countries. One of these might be Afghanistan. The other might be Japan. I am still loking into this.

If the blockaid is just a smoke screen. Iran might very well have the resources needed to make a very sofisticated flying machine.


I dont think the publick really understand the danger of a nation who is adapting its military to a more powerful one. It is very hard to catch onto if they are very one sided. Iran dosent need to build a F-22 to counter a F-22. Just like the Russians said, when choosing the PAK FA.

Iran dosent need to build a F-22 or a B2 to try and sink a US carrier. Iran have built a carrier killer balistic missiel that have a 700km range. That is not something the carrier should take lightly.

Iran have very sofisticated early waring system that are very capable of detecting stealth jets and cruise missiels. Some bought from the Ukraine and some they have built them selvs. The system Iran bought from Ukraine didnt please the US very well. Because it had a better detection probability than the US AWACS.

Iran will never be cought of guard. That is probably why Donald Rumsfeld said in Pentagon, that Iran most likely had to be neutralized with conventional tiped balistic missiels. He would never have said that if Iran was a total walkover.

reply to post by spy66


It's quite porous. I believe it's France that buys Iranian oil pretty much outright. Iran bought three 747s recently through a third country, with a buyers fee. Things like that happen a lot. So they do still have access to some things.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Adaluncatif

 

The ONLY way the Iranians could sink a U.S. Carrier is if we purposely let them.

Our Carriers are protected from enemy attack by DISTANCE. It is simple. a U.S. Carrier Group and it's aircraft have the ability to wage war at extreme range as well as are protected by the vast capability of U.S. Satellites, Early Warning Aircraft and Missile systems as well as the soon to be deployed on Ships...FEL.

Now anyone here would say that nothing is foolproof but I will tell you...U.S. Carrier Groups are close and once Protected by the Free Electron Laser...will be.

The Carrier Groups defenses are muti-faceted in the extreme. The only country that even has a shred of a chance outside Nuclear Attack would be the Russians with their Missiles that have the ability to deploy counter measures.

As far as Iran is concerned...NO WAY.

to be continued....Split Infinity

I have not disagreed with you lately on too much but here I have to disagree.

Pride is a weakness, and when we allow ourselves too much of it we open ourselves up for it to be exploited.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Adaluncatif

 

The ONLY way the Iranians could sink a U.S. Carrier is if we purposely let them.

I can think of two Russian, one Chinese and an Australian sub crew - the latter in a diesel-electric boat - who would disagree with this particular piece of A.S.S. propaganda.

You also state that the Iranians have no pilots who can fly low level - based on what, exactly? You have no idea at all.

Don't drink the Kool Aid. US CBG's are heavily protected, but nothing is impossible.

Nef. The timing of those incidents is highly suspect. The Navy needed cash at those times,and how better than to fake surprise when a sub pops up suddenly? And the australians if i remember the australians cheated a bit hugging the coast knowing the US navy was not allowed to use active sonar there.

Originally posted by yuppa
Nef. The timing of those incidents is highly suspect. The Navy needed cash at those times,and how better than to fake surprise when a sub pops up suddenly? And the australians if i remember the australians cheated a bit hugging the coast knowing the US navy was not allowed to use active sonar there.

Whats more suspect is that you believe the PR that says it was all suspect.

As for "cheating"... in war, you do what you can to win. There ain't no cheating.

But - that particular exercise the US ships involved broke their own ROE and used sonar when they weren't supposed to, and still missed the Aussie sub. The video of the wargame is on YouTube.

Originally posted by neformore
Let's get something straight here. American Superiority Syndrome isn't "anti American" sentiment. What it is in a nutshell is a reference to the attitude of all those who seem to think that only the USA can do certain things or develop certain technologies, or those who believe that US forces are invincible and incapable of ever being engaged in any format, or those who simply seek to mock other nations out of sheer ignorance.

As good as the US military is, it is not infallible. Anyone who thinks it is may be sadly misguided.

I agree... The difference is when that advanced technology, specifically weapons of mass destruction are in the hands of an insane Islamic regime, and how they can deliver such weapons, if provoked to retaliate.

Defeating the USA can be accomplished without direct military confrontation, and Iran has the proxies and clandestine groups along with their affiliates to accomplish that goal...

Iran may be no match for U.S. and even Israeli military supremacy in direct confrontation, but they can deliver an even more devastating blow through other methods.... That fact will be painfully unavoidable should there be a direct military confrontation with Iran, especially with U.S. and Israeli aggression against Iran.

IMO

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by yuppa
Nef. The timing of those incidents is highly suspect. The Navy needed cash at those times,and how better than to fake surprise when a sub pops up suddenly? And the australians if i remember the australians cheated a bit hugging the coast knowing the US navy was not allowed to use active sonar there.

Whats more suspect is that you believe the PR that says it was all suspect.

As for "cheating"... in war, you do what you can to win. There ain't no cheating.

But - that particular exercise the US ships involved broke their own ROE and used sonar when they weren't supposed to, and still missed the Aussie sub. The video of the wargame is on YouTube.

Im too paranoid about the US navy jostling for cash? The PR was that they navy was surprised right? And it was around the time they were asking for more money. no such thing as coincidence. And The ROE went out the window when the Aussies broke the rules of the engagement correct? Most war games between allies are not taken too serious in the first place.

reply to post by yuppa


No, but when a Chinese sub pops up within torpedo range of a carrier, and no one knew it was there, that's a different story. Along with the US leasing a Swedish (I think it was Swedish) SSK and not finding it once, when they had it in their use for a year or two. Diesel boats are the hardest things in the world to find when they're in blue water, unless they have to snorkel, which they have to do very very rarely now with a modern boat. The new ones running on batteries are much quieter than even an ultra quiet nuke boat. When you get into the Gulf, and into shallow water, passive and active sonar is degraded severely due to the shallow waters, and the terrain on the bottom. They'd be lucky to detect a nuke boat running full out with bad pumps under the right conditions.

Originally posted by ausername

Originally posted by neformore
Let's get something straight here. American Superiority Syndrome isn't "anti American" sentiment. What it is in a nutshell is a reference to the attitude of all those who seem to think that only the USA can do certain things or develop certain technologies, or those who believe that US forces are invincible and incapable of ever being engaged in any format, or those who simply seek to mock other nations out of sheer ignorance.

As good as the US military is, it is not infallible. Anyone who thinks it is may be sadly misguided.

I agree... The difference is when that advanced technology, specifically weapons of mass destruction are in the hands of an insane Islamic regime, and how they can deliver such weapons, if provoked to retaliate.

Defeating the USA can be accomplished without direct military confrontation, and Iran has the proxies and clandestine groups along with their affiliates to accomplish that goal...

Iran may be no match for U.S. and even Israeli military supremacy in direct confrontation, but they can deliver an even more devastating blow through other methods.... That fact will be painfully unavoidable should there be a direct military confrontation with Iran, especially with U.S. and Israeli aggression against Iran.

IMO

Excuse me but what Israelis military supremacies..?

Its all “MYTH” about israeli army, all those murderers and butchers can do is to slaughtering (ROCK THROWING) militias and that’s it.

Iranian (army only) has well trained service men twice if not trice the whole Israelis population ready for combat at any given time, that been said you should include and add (Qods battalion) and (IRGC) in to account, then of course proxies as well.

It is all propaganda, those israelis fat slab are nothing but chickens. What they say and feared to death that the Arabs will throw them into sea?

Well, the Iranians are not Arabs and they will make them RUN FOR THE SEA instead, if we are talking about direct military confrontations of course.

reply to post by amkia


The Israeli Air Force is one of the best in the world, and has some of the most advanced electronic warfare equipment out there, probably the best in the Middle East by far. They're nothing to sneeze at. There are other Air Forces in the Middle East that are good, but none are as good as the IAF. They just don't train for it, and their doctrine is very different.

Just look at the two raids into Syria. Both attacked what were heavily defended targets, and both raids came off apparently without a shot being fired at the attacking aircraft. The Syrians didn't know they were there until the bombs hit. Not many military forces could have pulled that off.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by yuppa

 

No, but when a Chinese sub pops up within torpedo range of a carrier, and no one knew it was there, that's a different story. Along with the US leasing a Swedish (I think it was Swedish) SSK and not finding it once, when they had it in their use for a year or two. Diesel boats are the hardest things in the world to find when they're in blue water, unless they have to snorkel, which they have to do very very rarely now with a modern boat. The new ones running on batteries are much quieter than even an ultra quiet nuke boat. When you get into the Gulf, and into shallow water, passive and active sonar is degraded severely due to the shallow waters, and the terrain on the bottom. They'd be lucky to detect a nuke boat running full out with bad pumps under the right conditions.

Yap thats the incident that got the US funding. Split infinity posted that about that incident,and thats what i was refrencing as well as a few other incidents. The Germans have the world quitest sub actually i think its the 212 actually. Hydrogen powered/electrical. But heres something...allies are not really worth worrying over. So what the swiss have a steathy sub? Keep them from selling it to anyone and thats one less worry.

reply to post by yuppa


The point is though, that just about all diesel subs are that quiet. A diesel doesn't have the pumps that a nuke does to make extra noise, so they can be really really quiet. Even older diesel boats, like Iran has are really really quiet, until they have to snorkel. But all they have to do at that point is go around something else making a lot of noise, snorkel, and then hide again. Or go behind an island or something. There are ways to hide a snorkeling diesel. And in the Gulf, there is so much to set off a MAD detector, and sonar is so flaky in that area, that even an old Golf won't have problems sneaking up on a carrier.

Iran currently has two indigenous designs, one a mini sub, and much more worrying, three Kilo class subs they got from Russia. The Kilo is considered one of the quietest SSKs in the world. One has been upgraded, and two are believed to be undergoing modernization currently.

reply to post by Zaphod58



You might be right but what good is Air force when the whole (run way) are destroyed in advance by missiles and what not..?

Couple of SA-24 in which produces in Iran domestically would scared the hell out of those Israelis chicken pilots forever, all needed is infiltration and we’ll see how good those chickens are in real battle fronts.

There are many ways to make the Air force crippled for weeks or more, what I said was just one and very easy way to stop and down their air superiority to zilch.

If the Syrian army didn’t responded accordingly was because of the politics, not the lack of advanced features and the defence systems.

You should know it better mate.

reply to post by amkia


And what about Iron Dome? And the follow on projects? They actually work very well, and will defend the bases. As well as the other areas where they have runways. The Arab nations have tried many times to destroy Israel and have yet to succeed. They may hurt the Israeli Air Force, but with the amount of training the IAF has compared to the rest of the Middle East, and the equipment that they have, compared to the rest of the Middle East, they will put up a hell of a fight. They might not stop every incoming missile, but Iron Dome will stop a lot of them, enough to keep the Air Force flying and fighting.

So Syria just said "Sure, come on in and destroy our equipment, and kill our scientists, and these other countries scientists, and we won't do anything?" Somehow I doubt that.

reply to post by Zaphod58



World of politics mate, we aren’t politicians and we don’t know what is behind the scene. Lot of speculations but at the end Israel knows that they cannot stand the heat of the real battle; it isn’t 60’s and 70’s anymore.

Remember 2006 and their defeats?

Well-coordinated attack will render that Iron dome to the garbage dome, again what is air superiority when they cannot fly..?