Iran’s cutting-edge Fighter a hoax, critics claim

Originally posted by amkia

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

Oh, okay. It's useless. Honestly, if its a slow mover, their dumber than I thought. From the look of it, I doubt it would be able to carry the pilot's weight, I don't see that craft carrying any kind of ordnance.

I mean, from what aircraft I've seen, either Iran thought of something we haven't in aerodynamics or their simply a long way behind the curve.

edit on 4-2-2013 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

Sorry..

Is this your usual way of trolling to insult an ancient nation? Long before the existence of your fore, fore father they cultivated civilization as we know it today, excuse the question but is there a race between your stupidity and ignorance..?

Why can’t you just accept the fact that THEY CAN AND THEY DOWHAT EVER THEY WISHES. Who are YOU to judge..?

The design of the aircraft is simply bold, neat and exclusive, now.. do better if you don’t like it.

So your qualification is being ancient? Well the Neanderthal was far more ancient but look at what happened to them.

reply to post by Cosmic4life

The real technology is the process of actual fabrication....erm what..you mean the actual process that I'm occasionally employed in....do tell...can't wait for some nuggets of gold from a joker that says I'm seriously out of my depth.

Yeah right whatever..

Like the F-35 .... Overpriced...Overdue....Over budget...and Over rated......and with a list of faults as long as your arm.

Back in the day...Kelly Johnson built a jet Fighter from scratch in 143 days.....it was his process that created the A-12..designed in 1960..first flew in 1962....the SR-71.designed in 1962...first flew in 1964.

Ben Rich carried Kelly Johnson's process forward to produce the F-117a again in record time..

Today there are no Kelly Johnsons or Ben Rich's at places like Lockheed....what you get is a bloated Corporation ripping off Customers with claims it cannot meet....

If Kelly Johnson could do it back in the early 60's ... it's pretty clear the Iranians can do it today..with modern computers and modern machinery...all they have to do is follow the Johnson process.

The A-12/SR-71/YF-12 were created on a piece of paper with a slide rule.....the F-117A was created on a computer with less power than my Mobile Phone.

This is very definitely my last response to you....it should be clear to everyone who knows at least something of Aviation and Aircraft Construction that it is you who knows nothing.

C...

You keep saying this is your last post...

Yet here you are... once AGAIN!



Very nice post Cosmic4Life!

You forgot to include the B-52 roughed out on some diner napkins! on your list.

reply to post by Daedalus

you tell cosmic to try and keep it friendly, right after implying that i'm an airhead, or in some way mentally inferior to you....that's what we in the industry call a hypocrite..

i didn't say design elements from the 104 were being used, i simply sited it as an example of the fact that yes, a plane with tiny wings CAN fly....and the 104 was unstable because the tiny wings were on such a large body..aerodynamics is kind of a bitch that way...

i think it was you who entirely missed the point..

PS: yeah, the model was the same configuration as the mockup...look harder..

You can wordsmith all you want, stand on your head, engage in black is white, white is black 'analysis'....

I'm NOT going to let you off the hook...

The F-104 was put together for one purpose... to fly fast.

Any SERIOUS student of avionics history will HONESTLY admit the F-104, due to the wing characteristics interacting with tail design was a deathtrap.

A LOT of good pilots bought it in that 50's era design...

Many were chalked up to 'pilot error'... but that was mostly cantadmitwerewrongeconopolitics.

The cover-up is legendary.



In turn you can ATTEMPT to discount this specific design criticism brought up by some of our threadmates of the Death-to-the-Infidel-313...

The 'mockup' is 100% FAKE...

You know... We can see for ourselves...

Let's wait for the first production craft to roll off the assembly line...

It should only be... a couple of... NEVER!



Feel free to demonstrate for us how you believe the flying 'model' is EXACTLY the same as the Death-to-the-Infidel-313 'mockup'!

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by golemina

 

First off, it wasn't my acronym to begin with. I simply chose to use it, because it's true.

Secondly, I am an American. I have no problem with Americans whatsoever. But if you want to keep telling me all about how I do, then you go right ahead. When people sit here telling me all about how the Iranians or any other military can't hurt the US, and we can take them in a fight without even breaking a sweat, then I'm going to sit here and call BS on them. If you had bothered to read the thread, instead of cherry picking, you would see all that being said. And if you had bothered to read the thread, you would have seen where more than one person has said that this is a mock up, and everyone else that builds planes does the exact same thing with mock ups. But you go right ahead telling me how I hate Americans and whatever else you want to.

Anyone that's ever been shot at...

Doesn't take that false bravado nonsense as even worth responding to...

Dude... A.S.S. yeah... Whatever.

You do keep making these sweeping accusatory comments...

Something along the lines of :

Have you 'EVER' read anything I've written...

With something like 14,000 posts, I guess it all runs together after a while...



We've talked before.

Again...

Zaphod: 'I want to thank ALL of the LITTLE people...'

It could just be my personal bias, but I kinda like the fact that I understand (and recall ) what I take the time to post in the threads I participate in...

It's all in the (attention to ) details...

For example:

Third, when did I say that *you* said that? Show me where I said specifically that you said it. Show me once. You can't, because I didn't say that you were the one saying it did I. I said "people', so unless you're all those other people saying how the US military is going to kick everyone's ass without losing any equipment, I wasn't talking about you, was I.

edit on 2/5/2013 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

Ok...

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by golemina

 

I have something against Americans? HAHAHAHA! Have you bothered to read my threads??? Ever??? I have something against people that say that the US will obviously walk all over any country that we have to fight without taking a single loss, and are 50 years ahead of everyone else technology wise. Something against Americans.....God that's the funniest thing I've read in ages.

See that 'Reply to post by golemina' stuff...

THAT would make it addressed to ME.



When it's part of the SAME paragraph... that makes it STILL addressed to me.

See how that works?

Now this thing with 'have something against Americans'...

Again... It's ALL about the details.

This acronym you're using A.S.S...

The first letter is A. for 'American'.

When you single out 'Americans' without ANY consideration of the ENTIRE rest of the world suffering from a monsterously inflated sense of self...

Well... that makes it an ANTI-AMERICAN statement.

See how that works?

Hey... I am here to HELP.

No. No. How about this:

I ache to serve.

See you Zaphod58.

The real question for me is... Will you remember me the next time we chat?



Almost forgot...

You consider the Death-to-the-Infidel-313 to be for real...

Best guess... When will it be in service?

My vote: It's 100% fake. Ipso facto... NEVER!

This is a real plane. The canopy has a stealth coating. That is why it doesn't look completely transparent. It seems to me the wing tips are bent down to take advantage of surface effects when it flies close to the surface of the ocean. This plane is designed to sneak up on aircraft carriers and destroy them.

reply to post by Adaluncatif


Why do the Israelis want people to think this plane is fake? Are they afraid that the Americans won't do their dirty work for them if they know the Iranians can attack their aircraft carriers with this plane?

reply to post by Cosmic4life


i guarantee it can be done today. the thing that holds people back, are the "niceties". all the avionics that goes in requires TCTOs and mods to install them, AFTER the jet is put together. the "baseline" aircraft could definately be thought and spun up in a couple years, but the aftermarket systems (that sometimes dont get along together) make it take longer to be "combat ready".

reply to post by vpjanitorial


gotya...cheers

reply to post by Cosmic4life


Mate, I see your join date as 2009? You should know better then....tut tut! Without knowing anything about a person you can't jump to conclusions as you have done all throughout this thread to myself and other members. Sure, you might be good with the spanners and sure you might have even ventured out of your comfy little nest and gone to or around the middle east. But I and I'm sure others will agree, think you should wind your neck in.

For the record loud mouth, I have been a commercial pilot since the 90's and have taken part in many projects not only as a test pilot but also R&D. Many of these projects taken place in Jordan. I have a lot of knowledge to offer to a discussion but I choose not to big note myself....unlike you? Had you taken part in anything remotely secretive I'm sure you would not be blabbing on a open forum such as this.

Now feel free to berate me, to be honest I expect it from you, because I now know you can't help yourself.

Capt.

reply to post by Adaluncatif


LOL!

IRAN? Be able to attack a U.S. Carrier....in any viable way? Uhhhh...nnnoo!

U.S. Carrier Groups have been designed to be able to defend themseves against a many level attack.

Since a U.S. Carrier is worth Multiple of Billions of Dollars...it is currently defended by Ageis Cruisers equiped with the Best and Most Advanced as well as Capable Anti-Aircraft...Anti-Missile and Anti-Satellite Missile system on Planet Earth...never mind the very soon to be installed Free Electron Laser System which will be standard on all new Carriers as well as installed on all Nimitz Class Carriers and Aegis Cruisers.

The New Designed and New Fueled SM-3 ABM/ASAT just recently targetted and destroyed a failing U.S. Satellite at Orbital Distance traveling between 14,000 and 16,000 Miles Per Hour. Not only did it score a hit but the SM-3 was specifically aimed and guides at the Deadly Hydrazine Booster Fuel Tank of this Satellite as to destroy it in case this tank survived reentry and landed in a populated area where it could have killed many.

Such a Missile that is now standard in all U.S. Carrier Groups would destroy ANY Iranian Aircraft of Missiles well before they came even close to a U.S. Carrier Group and since the SM-3 flies at Hypersonic Speeds....and has ORBITAL RANGE...there is almost ZERO Probability that any Iranian Aircraft or Missile would have a chance of strriking a U.S. Ship.

There is a HUGE difference between any nations Anti-Missile...Anti-Aircraft technology and capability and the capability the U.S. Navy has with not only such missiles but with Electronic Warfare that is so capable as to Burn Out Enemy Guidence or even HACK enemy planes computer control to either launch missiles prematurely or render them without ability to target.

When we talk about the SM-3...we are talking about a Multiple Networked Supercomputer Guidence System along with a Missile that is fueled by BREAKTHROUGH High Energy, Long Burn...and Perfect Even Burn Solid Rocket Fuel that not only gives this Missile UNBELIEVABLE RANGE...but propells it at such Velocity that it's speed alone allows it to obtain a Massive Amount of Kinetic Energy that by just striking a target it transfers more Kinetic Energy than any other Nations Missile with a Warhead.

When the SM-3 destroyed the Failing U.S. Satellites targetted Hydrazine Tank in Orbit...it did not use an Exposive Warhead. Plus the fact that due to U.S. Supercomputing capability... an incoming enemies Missile Ability to thwart a ABM from destroying it by various methods including Chaff and Flares...will not work against an SM-3 as it is guided to target by a combination of detection methods including Radar, IR-Light, Wide Beam Microwave active broadcast and passive detection and can even be guided visually if needed.

The Chinese have decided to stop production of their new Carrier Killer Missile in vast numbers as they will build a good number just to save face...but the Chinese KNOW that their Carrier Killer is far too slow to avoid being destroyed by the Hypersonic in Velocity SM-3.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by Adaluncatif
reply to post by Adaluncatif

 

Why do the Israelis want people to think this plane is fake? Are they afraid that the Americans won't do their dirty work for them if they know the Iranians can attack their aircraft carriers with this plane?

they're terrified that now that the U.N. isn't kissing their ass anymore, and they're losing their grip on some things, that iran will get fed up with their s**t, and come at them..

they wanna marginalize iran in the media, to maintain the arrogant superiority complex of their citizens..

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Adaluncatif

 

LOL!

IRAN? Be able to attack a U.S. Carrier....in any viable way? Uhhhh...nnnoo!

U.S. Carrier Groups have been designed to be able to defend themseves against a many level attack.

Since a U.S. Carrier is worth Multiple of Billions of Dollars...it is currently defended by Ageis Cruisers equiped with the Best and Most Advanced as well as Capable Anti-Aircraft...Anti-Missile and Anti-Satellite Missile system on Planet Earth...never mind the very soon to be installed Free Electron Laser System which will be standard on all new Carriers as well as installed on all Nimitz Class Carriers and Aegis Cruisers.

The New Designed and New Fueled SM-3 ABM/ASAT just recently targetted and destroyed a failing U.S. Satellite at Orbital Distance traveling between 14,000 and 16,000 Miles Per Hour. Not only did it score a hit but the SM-3 was specifically aimed and guides at the Deadly Hydrazine Booster Fuel Tank of this Satellite as to destroy it in case this tank survived reentry and landed in a populated area where it could have killed many.

Such a Missile that is now standard in all U.S. Carrier Groups would destroy ANY Iranian Aircraft of Missiles well before they came even close to a U.S. Carrier Group and since the SM-3 flies at Hypersonic Speeds....and has ORBITAL RANGE...there is almost ZERO Probability that any Iranian Aircraft or Missile would have a chance of strriking a U.S. Ship.

There is a HUGE difference between any nations Anti-Missile...Anti-Aircraft technology and capability and the capability the U.S. Navy has with not only such missiles but with Electronic Warfare that is so capable as to Burn Out Enemy Guidence or even HACK enemy planes computer control to either launch missiles prematurely or render them without ability to target.

When we talk about the SM-3...we are talking about a Multiple Networked Supercomputer Guidence System along with a Missile that is fueled by BREAKTHROUGH High Energy, Long Burn...and Perfect Even Burn Solid Rocket Fuel that not only gives this Missile UNBELIEVABLE RANGE...but propells it at such Velocity that it's speed alone allows it to obtain a Massive Amount of Kinetic Energy that by just striking a target it transfers more Kinetic Energy than any other Nations Missile with a Warhead.

When the SM-3 destroyed the Failing U.S. Satellites targetted Hydrazine Tank in Orbit...it did not use an Exposive Warhead. Plus the fact that due to U.S. Supercomputing capability... an incoming enemies Missile Ability to thwart a ABM from destroying it by various methods including Chaff and Flares...will not work against an SM-3 as it is guided to target by a combination of detection methods including Radar, IR-Light, Wide Beam Microwave active broadcast and passive detection and can even be guided visually if needed.

The Chinese have decided to stop production of their new Carrier Killer Missile in vast numbers as they will build a good number just to save face...but the Chinese KNOW that their Carrier Killer is far too slow to avoid being destroyed by the Hypersonic in Velocity SM-3.

Split Infinity

So what you are saying is that you will be completely surprised when the Iranians sink a US aircraft carrier.

reply to post by amkia


We do have better, it's called a hang glider. Hang gliders actually fly.

By the way, I don't care about a Nation's ancient history or culture. I care about here and right now. Winning wars and battles in my age. Please, let these ancient people be filled with pride on the battlefield. Lets see how far pride will carry them. It hasn't worked out to well for their brethren in other parts of the world.

I lost respect for the Persian nation when I found out they were to afraid to protect their heritage and bowed before an Arabic heritage.

----

The Persians are dead, defeated. Only Arabs are left.

reply to post by Adaluncatif


The ONLY way the Iranians could sink a U.S. Carrier is if we purposely let them.

Our Carriers are protected from enemy attack by DISTANCE. It is simple. a U.S. Carrier Group and it's aircraft have the ability to wage war at extreme range as well as are protected by the vast capability of U.S. Satellites, Early Warning Aircraft and Missile systems as well as the soon to be deployed on Ships...FEL.

Now anyone here would say that nothing is foolproof but I will tell you...U.S. Carrier Groups are close and once Protected by the Free Electron Laser...will be.

The Carrier Groups defenses are muti-faceted in the extreme. The only country that even has a shred of a chance outside Nuclear Attack would be the Russians with their Missiles that have the ability to deploy counter measures.

As far as Iran is concerned...NO WAY.

to be continued....Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Here are a list of the ways that some think Iran can sink a U.S. Carrier.

1. Use a U.S. built F-14 that has been supplied spare parts by the Russians and come in Super Sonic at Low Level to launch a missile.

Answer...Iranian Pilots do not have sea or Ground hugging flight ability at Supersonic speeds and do not have pilots good enough to do this manually.

2. Swarm a Carrier Group using either Fast Speed Boats or Boat/Aircraft that skim in in great numbers.

Answer...U.S. Satellites would provide intel. of such craft way in advance and they would be destroyed far from the Carrier.

3. Use an Iranian Sub to get in close to launch torpedos and missiles.

Answer...All Iranian Naval Movements are tracked and Iranian Subs would never be allowed to get in close to a Carrier as U.S. Subs would destroy them far from Carrier Group.

4. Launch Multiple Surface to Sea Missiles as U.S. Carrier is locked into small Persian Gulf area.

Answer...Such Iranian Missile sites would be destroyed well before a U.S. Carrier group went into such an area if at all.

Care to add some?

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Adaluncatif

 

The ONLY way the Iranians could sink a U.S. Carrier is if we purposely let them.

I can think of two Russian, one Chinese and an Australian sub crew - the latter in a diesel-electric boat - who would disagree with this particular piece of A.S.S. propaganda.

You also state that the Iranians have no pilots who can fly low level - based on what, exactly? You have no idea at all.

Don't drink the Kool Aid. US CBG's are heavily protected, but nothing is impossible.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


It is nice to know that Americans have good faith in their capabilities.

I have been on quite few drills with the US since 1991. And i know they are not as well defended at all times as the publick thinks.

I dont think i have been on a single drill where there hasnt been some kind of failure or misshab on their high tech equipment or judgement. God help them if they get cought when that happens.

I also know that a ship is never better than the people who handels it. No matter how hightech the equipent is.
There might be a very good crew one year, But a lot less the next year. Engeneering and attitude are two realtions that must work 100%.

All these factor play a very significant role to a fleet that thinks it is impregnable. Everything must work at all times. And you have to make all the right calls; all the time. There are no room for mistakes or technical failures.

Just one wrong call. And it might be over. One equipment failure. And it might be over. On paper everyting might seam top notch. But that have nothing to to with capabilities in real life. How good things seam to be on paper, will only be proven when the battle is over.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

people are right. those big carriers can not do anything special in the small Persian Gulf. they are just good for getting near the shores of Libya and send their fighters to the mainland. they can not defend themselves against thousands of missiles on moving trucks across all that gulf. and tiny submarines. the best thing that US can do is to send those carriers out of Gulf far into Indian ocean. this way they can use them the best !
those carriers are in Persian Gulf just because they know that they will not involve in any military conflict with Iran !!

Let's get something straight here. American Superiority Syndrome isn't "anti American" sentiment. What it is in a nutshell is a reference to the attitude of all those who seem to think that only the USA can do certain things or develop certain technologies, or those who believe that US forces are invincible and incapable of ever being engaged in any format, or those who simply seek to mock other nations out of sheer ignorance.

As good as the US military is, it is not infallible. Anyone who thinks it is may be sadly misguided.