Do I want to go to Heaven?

reply to post by pheonix358


Imagine you were born in a region far of from our so called civilization.
Let's say an still unknown to us native forest tribe.
Your parents gave you all the knowledge you need to survive and the other stuff to make a living.
When you were 5 years old you and parents went on a vacation. Because of an accident they both died.
You were alone. No chance to find a village and for about 30 years you never saw another human. But you made it through. You survived on your own. Isolated.

A one minute reply with plot holes for you
I am sure you get what i wanted to say.

There is a book on an alien interview and it tries to show that heaven is actually a trap that is set up to steal souls and erase their memories so they can be replanted into other bodies sort of like reincarnation. Since the population increases, more souls or spirits are being sent here to be trapped. I don't regard it as fact but I do think it's an interesting approach to the idea of afterlife. This interview is about 300+ pages.
Interview is here

Originally posted by pheonix358
Do I want to go to Heaven?

It don't make sense, goin' to heaven wit the goodie-goodies Dressed in white, I like black Tims and black hoodies God will probably have me on some real strict # No sleepin' all day, no gettin my **** licked Hangin' with the goodie-goodies loungin' in paradise # that #, I wanna tote guns and shoot dice

Notorious B.I.G.

Originally posted by KrzYma
you guys are funny...

you've heard something about "energy", somebody invented the term "soul", somebody called brain functions "consciousness"...

and now all of you believe when your body dies and your brain dissolve into single atoms, this "energy" of yours goes somewhere.
this so called consciousness is not a package, it's not a piece of matter nor it is some self contained energy field.

ah well, tooth fairy is also reel for some humans... till the age of 5 or so

edit on 29-12-2012 by KrzYma because: (no reason given)

"From dust you were made and to dust you shall return"

To me there is truth within this sentence.

If my particles can still do cover versions of Beatles songs i might can remember when i am with the source again is surely a different and mostly believe system related theme.

I really enjoyed reading this, op. I wish I had joined a debate team in school. But there's just one "problem" I see here.

You Catholic authorities tell you that God is good. Your reaction: You find reasons to doubt this ascertation... You use that young fresh mind to debate this stance with everything you've got. You win. A true champion in the realm of debate, rhetoric and whatnot...

(I wonder...does it say in the Bible, in Gods own words, that God is "good"? I've heard jealous...I guess its been a while.since I actually picked one up.)

Ok so, continuing on here...

Your Catholic school authorities tell you about their version of heaven and what will be there and what won't, etc... Your reaction: You then proceed to swallow the whole thing hook, line and sinker!?

Whaat???

This is not the master debator I came to know and love whilst reading your post...

???

I know my heaven will not be complete without animals.

Maybe we can visit the animals on earth. You know how animals can see spirits, angels, etc...right?

Anyway, I think I'm done here. Carry on.

reply to post by 3n19m470


I have my debate hat on in this thread. My own personal beliefs are a little esoteric for most people.

The real question is that if God is not good, then what is He, A dictator perhaps. When He sent Moses down with his Commandments, the first 30% were all about His demands on how we grovel before Him.

Thanks for the reply! Star for you.

P

Perhaps Heaven is not for me. How could God be so cruel to create a species that is so destructive.

Your last words are maybe meant to be ironical...but... hey i am not so sure

So i must ask you.
Do you think that any creator of new would enjoy a self evolving scenario that results in some ways bringing forth lifeforms, for example, which will be obedient slaves?
To me it is our free choice and will that makes a big deal so that we can call ourselves human.
One day i will become very sad when i finally can understand.
When i understood that i all of the time treated that what i thought i loved like a slave.
Isn't it the deepest wish of any father and mother that the child can have every choice and possibility to become something better then they were?

I found Robert Monroe’s ideas about afterlife to be the most interesting. His theories became easier to understand once I had a few conscious out-of-body exits.

The basic premise is that every version of heaven imaginable exists somewhere in the theoretical multiverse. There’s a heaven for Buddhists, planets to rule for Mormons, dozens of virgins for Muslim men, etc. Essentially, Monroe believed that you go to the place that aligns with your belief system when you die. He also mentioned encountering people who hadn’t realized they had died and were continuing to live out a normal life on a different astral plane, or “phase,” as he called it; kinda like the movie, Groundhog Day.

I don’t think Monroe thought very highly of those with belief systems. He wrote about a higher realm that he termed, “The Park,” where people without belief systems ended up. He went on to explain that the heavens built up around religion felt “fake” compared to the “higher” or “deeper” phases.

It’s fun to think about, but I haven’t personally experienced most of these ideas for myself. Maybe someone here has?

Wow. You definitely are young because your ignorance is quite apparent.

But you know what? No one is forcing you to go to heaven, even if you do believe it exists. In fact you aren't going there by default anyway so all you have to do is do nothing. You have a choice, that is a wonderful gift given you while you live. Once that is over, there is no other choice but the one you've chosen.

So stop whinging like a spoiled child and just live out what you believe instead of saying God is cruel out of ignorance.

If you really expected God to come down and stop all the hurt we humans inflict on each other, we wouldn't have free choice anymore would we...or is that too had to grasp?

reply to post by pheonix358


I had a fantastic laugh reading this, especially this part:

Then our first speaker declared that we would prove our case by subjecting God to a War Crime Trial based on the International Conventions on warfare.

Then I, as our Second speaker, spoke about God! I went through Biological attacks on Egypt, Plagues, locusts, poisoning water supplies, killing Infants and new born male children. I went through the crime of Genocide with the flood and noted the huge animal cruelty issues as well. Nuclear like attacks on Sodom and Gomorrah, everything got a mention. We went through the likely view as Noah looked out of the Ark to see bodies, including little babies, floating and bloating. I went a little into overtime. There was just so much information to go through.

man this thread is BS, there were a whole load of people on here the other day crying because someone wanted to debate whether america was liable for war crimes against japan i.e. the nukes. now you feel God should be liable under international law for international war crimes when clearly america isnt it when they placed them selfs out side the UN charter.
Bigger than God.

reply to post by fastbob72


You won't like heaven because it will be "full of Christians"? What would be so bad about tha- Ohhh... I think I understand...

You assume that anyone can just say they are Christian and -poof- they are magically changed into one, and guaranteed a spot in heaven.

You actually believe that the annoying, judgemental, in your face buttholes with bibles who call themselves Christians are really Christians? And will be in heaven? Wow... Ok...

I wish I knew where you lived... I'd simply dress up as a police officer, make a fake badge and have some fun with you all day long! Cause you seem to be of the mind that, if someone proclaims to be something, and then proceeds to go against everything you are supposed to stand for, that theh should still retain their title and everyfthing that goes with it.

I guess I'm a little strange.. I think that if someone calling themselves a Christian spends their life judging others along with everything else they are not supposed to be doing, then they are not really a Christian and I should not expect to see them in heaven, should such a place exist in the context we believe it does.

You could be a "christian" and not even realize it. Do you try to avoid violence and do good for all, especially the least of mankind? The poor and hungry? They were put here for a reason, too, you know. As a test to see how each of us will react to seeing another human who is seemingly helpless to provide themselves a leper shelter and food. Angels will often pose as the homeless to assist in the completion of their mission. Yes there's angels who go on secret missions and all kinds of awesome stuff... This lifestyle can be fun. It doesn't have to be boring.

The ones who make it boring and who come up with crazy sh* like "you must verbally recite the following sentence and believe it in your heart or you will not go to heaven. Good deeds do not matter." are probably just there to make sure anyone with half a brain stays away. They don't want someone like you to go in and liberate all those people....


Personally I'd like to be around real Christians. But you don't even have to call them Christians. That word is not even in the bible.

The real question is that if God is not good, then what is He, A dictator perhaps. When He sent Moses down with his Commandments, the first 30% were all about His demands on how we grovel before Him.

I would call it total insanity.
But isn't the known Universe not also described as chaos?
Btw... Non serviam
Logic dictates that a loving Creator needs no boot licking nor worship of any form

Originally posted by pacifier2012
Wow. You definitely are young because your ignorance is quite apparent.

But you know what? No one is forcing you to go to heaven, even if you do believe it exists. In fact you aren't going there by default anyway so all you have to do is do nothing. You have a choice, that is a wonderful gift given you while you live. Once that is over, there is no other choice but the one you've chosen.

So stop whinging like a spoiled child and just live out what you believe instead of saying God is cruel out of ignorance.

If you really expected God to come down and stop all the hurt we humans inflict on each other, we wouldn't have free choice anymore would we...or is that too had to grasp?

I am 56 years old.

The first thing God can do is to stop killing us. Can't you see a homicidal Dictator. He does not like our choices so He causes a near extinction level flood. All those poor drowned bunny rabbits, what did they do!

P

reply to post by 3n19m470


I gave you a star. You should have ten, but alas I can only give you one.

P

This is a different fact of life to know rather u live ur life good or bad my mom always told me of i didn't go to church i would end up in hell i believe me and god are on neutral terms... what do u do with me i have lived my life all good and help everyone i know in everywhere i know how even if god made me that way. so for a guy like me where do i end up? even if im alone in the subject... when i was little i had to wear dress up shirts and pants for church until 10.. and still im not saying im questing god... i just believe in living life right and isn't it what it means? prays are good and at the same time if u can do something would u or let it go into gods hands?

reply to post by pheonix358


The giant hole that shoots all the way through every religious ideology is this:

The notion that we live in a probabilistic universe.

Remove that fallacy, and we can understand cause, effect and consequence.

With that fallacy, we are blind and arrogant.

Potent free will is an illusion that we have been programmed to accept without question. It plays right into the hands of what I have come to call "the ego overlay", which is not ego proper, but a parasitic quasi-intelligence that has the same kind of reality as the hologram man in THX 1138 or the greek god Apollo in the old Star Trek series. It is a persistent thoughtform(s) that rely on our ignorance and fear in order to remain fed and maintain the feeling of aliveness that it so desperately wants.

But in reality, we are all facets of the Infinite Creator, living out our assigned lifetimes, gathering experience for God to answer Its question: What Am I?

Also important to note: The Intelligent Infinity from which all existence springs is not a violator or dominator. It is experiencing, now, the ramifications and consequences of existing in the dualistic paradigm of victim/perpetrator and good/evil. It is (you and I are) both victim and perp, both good and evil. But ultimately, all serves the One. I take that to further imply that All Is Good.

So, your experience can be heavenly or hell-like, depending on your level of acceptance of the Truth (that you are a dependent part of All That Is and that what you do to another you do to yourself). If you fob off responsibility for the pain in your experience to an "other", then your experience will bear the mark of disempowerment. It will be like hell. If you endeavor to gain advantage over your fellow-beings (by being a perpetrator), you will likewise be disconnected and experience a hell-like existence. You CAN push this far enough to stretch your hell experience for a LONG time. Long enough to "seem" eternal. If you recognize the essential unity of all things, your experience will bear the mark of empowerment. You will then also be able to exercise total and complete forgiveness (the ultimate empowering tool), and be given access to heavenly experience (which is a fancy way of saying your experience will mirror, to you, your oneness with the Infinite Creator).

Jesus promised us eternal life not the heavens where Gods throne is.
Most people who have had a near death experience and have claimed to have gone to heaven in reality have went to a place of paradise for those that are righteous. While those that die in their sins go to hell.

In the old testament there was one word for the abode of the dead it was divided into two parts by a barrier that could not be crossed. (See Luke 16:20-26) This abode of the dead is where we remain until judgment day and then eternity begins. We do not go up to be with God for eternity, He comes down to be with his creation. We will have a body and have freedom to enjoy being part of Gods creation forever and interact with others that we love and care for. We will see our loved ones again.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Br Ben

You could be right.... I do ponder though....

We must be Gods in the flesh within this universe. God can not create different souls, if God is thee soul everything is of. God can not create different souls if Gods soul is infinite. When we die, Gods soul returns back to from where it was given. Gods soul is; each and every one of us.

reply to post by spy66


Gods in the flesh, perhaps in our own way and right but in my opinion not exactly the singularity itself but a part of it with a unique soul created especially for a purpose in time.

Outside time we continue to share a purpose unique from another.

Each expression we use (he uses) is an expression, just a different form. Same can be said for each of our souls.

Kind of like a tree. It has a root but with many branches, leaves, and fruit.

I don't know.... like I said... I do ponder such.

reply to post by pheonix358


You're describing heaven as being boring, but you nor I have ever been there.

I also went to a private catholic school during my elementary years. By the time I reached 6th grade, I wanted out and attended a public school. You would think I would be a staunch catholic, but I'm far from it. I am very skeptical about organized religion. There are so many religions that are hypocritical, judgmental and absolutely controlling. Some of the bible stories nuns and priests would try to influence us with could easily be categorized as fairy tales. We were also taught about two conflicting Gods, one from the first testament and one from the new testament.

We've been taught to believe things that have been taught to us by religious leaders and by our parents for over a millennium. We really don't know squat. It's why they call it faith. When people tell you what heaven or hell is like, it's all B.S.. I don't know anybody who has ever died went to hell or heaven and came back to tell their story.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by pheonix358

 

You're describing heaven as being boring, but you nor I have ever been there.

I also went to a private catholic school during my elementary years. By the time I reached 6th grade, I wanted out and attended a public school. You would think I would be a staunch catholic, but I'm far from it. I am very skeptical about organized religion. There are so many religions that are hypocritical, judgmental and absolutely controlling. Some of the bible stories nuns and priests would try to influence us with could easily be categorized as fairy tales. We were also taught about two conflicting Gods, one from the first testament and one from the new testament.

We've been taught to believe things that have been taught to us by religious leaders and by our parents for over a millennium. We really don't know squat. It's why they call it faith. When people tell you what heaven or hell is like, it's all B.S.. I don't know anybody who has ever died went to hell or heaven and came back to tell their story.

I disagree. I am describing Heaven based on what I perceive God to be if taken from the Bible. I perceive God therefore based on his actions alone. He does not strike me as one that wants to live and let live. Quite the opposite. He kills those that refuse to bow to him. His personality must shine through in His rule of Heaven. Therefore it is not a place for anyone who wants freedom.

P