Do I want to go to Heaven?

reply to post by pheonix358

Brilliant!!! We're like "twins" in that regard. Very well done for a non-winnable win!!

Yep; part of what makes my worldly life joyful is being surrounded by animals, and caring for them. Making sure they have what they need, can go out or come in at will, are comfortable, get to play, and we all have complete and utter trust in one another. It is a family. I call it our "FANIMALY" - my husband and I and the 5 pets, plus the tank of fish who happily spawn, swim, and eat....not ONE "floater" in the six years the tank has been set up (110 gallons)...it has plants in it, too.

Watching what people do to each other is hell. And what they do to the planet and our co-dwellers....sickening.

OP, have you read "Letters from the Earth" by Mark Twain? You'd really enjoy it, I think. It's hilariously funny, and your post made me think of it.

It's short, too, and available online: here is one source to download it that contains a description as well. ENJOY!!
I look forward to this discussion....
S/F

reply to post by marbles87

Hell is reserved for the worst of the worst and there is no question on who on this earth will be personally dragged to hell by Satan himself and those people know who they are.

I have to be flippant here ---
based on the OP's brilliant treatise, Satan will be dragging GOD to hell.

Hmmmm. Makes ya wonder.

reply to post by wildtimes

based on the OP's brilliant treatise, Satan will be dragging GOD to hell.

Wrong. God created hell in the first place.
Satan(after his expulsion) threatened to drag humans (who he misleads) into hell.
God replied saying he would fill hell with those who follow Satan.

Satan is the "whisperer".
That's all he can do.... whisper thoughts into peoples minds...and people think Satans utterances are their own brilliant ideas and they act upon them. Your post is just one example of people acting upon Satans whispers.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Wrong. God created hell in the first place.

And then proceeded to commit all of the atrocities of the War Crimes that the OP listed.

I don't believe in Satan, anyway, nor in hell. Both just imaginary control mechanisms. Did you read the whole OP? I was referring to his opening Debate statement about God's acts. Horrible "father-figure".

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by wildtimes

 

based on the OP's brilliant treatise, Satan will be dragging GOD to hell.

Wrong. God created hell in the first place.
Satan(after his expulsion) threatened to drag humans (who he misleads) into hell.
God replied saying he would fill hell with those who follow Satan.

Satan is the "whisperer".
That's all he can do.... whisper thoughts into peoples minds...and people think Satans utterances are their own brilliant ideas and they act upon them. Your post is just one example of people acting upon Satans whispers.

hehe... good you say that... question,
How do you know all the guys who wrote all that "holly books" of yours wasn't driven by Satan whisper ???

I am actually pretty sure they were... just take a look at the history of all religions, and the fanatics that still kill in the name of "God"

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Your post is just one example of people acting upon Satans whispers.

Skorp, what the hell are you talking about??
My post shows that I'm acting upon Satan's whispers?

Please.

reply to post by wildtimes

I was referring to his opening Debate statement about God's acts. Horrible "father-figure".

You mean Gods "acts" as recorded in certain religious books? Then your battle is with those records and the people who wrote them.... not the One who knew you while you were in your mothers womb.

Most people misunderstand God because they see Him through religious records....religious records (your Torahs, Gospels and Korans etc) and their interpretations of it. Those records don't exactly reveal the Creator fully, the way He should be understood. These books just drop hints so a person can become aware of their Maker. Which is the true purpose of a humans existence.... to grow up and recognize his Maker.

The actual process of becoming aware of the Creator is more spiritual, which cannot be really expressed in words. Those who live for this world might be far from attaining this awareness.

Your knowledge and understanding will increase exponentially in "heaven". Your "consciousness" will be opened up, and you will be aware of things you couldn't have even imagined in this dimension. Add to that, you will be eternal, and time will be an archaic concept to you. A million years will be no more than a blink of an eye. You will know and understand "god" from a whole other perspective. And those things that held an interest for you during your earthly incarnation will be of no value or interest at all to you eternally. They will drop off of you with little fanfare.

The above is a very brief combination of scripturally based, as well as pulpit based teaching I've heard in my lifetime. The truth is, none of us actually knows what happens when this body expires. Period.

So the question really is, do you want to change into a more "enlightened" being? Would you be willing to shed the level of knowledge and understanding you have here, for much higher concepts there, if that were indeed an option after death?

reply to post by KrzYma

and the fanatics that still kill in the name of "God"

The fanatics who kill (innocents) in the name of God only delude themselves that they are religious.
It has also been said that the religious hypocrites will occupy the deepest regions of hellfire.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Most people misunderstand God because they see Him through religious records. Religious records (your Torahs, Gospels and Korans etc) and their interpretations of it. Those records don't exactly reveal the Creator fully, the way He should be understood. These books just drop hints so a person can become aware of their Maker. Which is the true purpose of a humans existence.... to grow up and recognize his Maker.

The actual process of becoming aware of the Creator is more spiritual, which cannot be really expressed in words. Those who live for this world might be far from attaining this awareness.

I thought perhaps you were more familiar with my beliefs than you seem to be....
my bad. (Ego! )
Of course I know you are correct....
I have said the same from the get-go on here.
I was referring ONLY TO THE DEBATE PREMISE.....
jeez.
Your sense of humor not coffeed up yet??

in the few visions of Heaven told us in the scriptures...it seems a scary place


there are 4 beasts surrounding the throne of G0d....having eyes all over their head...

then one might be fortunate enough to get a white robe and become part of an unnumberable 'choir' that sings Praise to G0d 24-7 eternally....

sheeze that might sound like Bliss to someone...but not this guy

is it Love or a Lobotomy that causes that heavenly choir to stand up forever and sing for eternity
in front of a throne, 4 beasts & some Elders-----....sounds like a "SAW" movie to me

AGAIN
How do you know all the guys who wrote all that "holly books" of yours wasn't driven by Satan whisper ???

reply to post by KrzYma

How do you know all the guys who wrote all that "holly books" of yours wasn't driven by Satan whisper ???

Because those books warn against Satan the whisperer.

Satan, as defined by those books....isn't someone who warns the people he intends to mislead.... by telling the writers of those books about the dangers of following Satan.

Its like having a brilliant plan to kidnap somebody at a certain place and time....and then telling them about your plans.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by KrzYma

 

How do you know all the guys who wrote all that "holly books" of yours wasn't driven by Satan whisper ???

Because those books warn against Satan the whisperer.

Satan, as defined by those books....isn't someone who warns the people he intends to mislead.... by telling the writers of those books about the dangers of following Satan.

Its like having a brilliant plan to kidnap somebody at a certain place and then telling them about it.

edit on 29-12-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

than you have no idea how Satan works, sorry
or psychology or human behavior

kidnapping is an good example though, tell somebody you know he will be kidnapped and you want to help him... he follows you... this is kidnapping by free will sort to speak

I just hope you guys will someday understand... (head-shaking)

reply to post by KrzYma


You asked me a question. I answered it.

than you have no idea how Satan works, sorry

So you have a better idea on as to how Satan works?

Fine, tell me how exactly Satan works, according to you.

But wait... you seem to be opposed to the very religions that gave us the concept of the deceiving being known as "Satan".

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


SURE I AM

your satan or god or whatever is invented by humans for humans.
I know God is a good Idea, I don't deny God as a concept.

but all your smart books are written by men to control men, just read it, specially the old testament, not that censored new one "rome" crap...

OH, here by the way haw your God tells you to treat women... have a look and enjoy



and if you like, one on Gods moral

reply to post by KrzYma

gut all your smart books are written by men to control men, just read it, specially the old testament,

Its been my position for a long time now that men did those horrible things on their own and recorded it as being commands of God.

reply to post by pheonix358


I really have nothing to add to what you said. You covered it all. Now mind you, I'm not opposed to spirituality. No, not in the least. I support spirituality. I just don't approve of spirituality that is practically designed to sabotage itself.

Good thread.

reply to post by pheonix358

My question is this! For all the people that are going to Heaven, what will it be like?
I am used to Freedom. Heaven is a Dictatorship.

Great question OP! And, congrats on proving your case in a Catholic school debate. Kudos!

Heaven won't be a dictatorship according to what Jesus said in the Bible!

Happily, it seems that in the "Kingdom of God," we will still be imperfect enough that we will be able to continue to "disobey" the perfect will of God.

Matthew 18:18
Truly I say to you, Whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

There will still be struggles against others and maybe even against the angels too!

Matthew 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

But at least we'll be able to fly!

Joh 3:8
The wind bloweth where it pleases, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so it is with every one that is born of the Spirit.

We will have physical bodies, just like the ones we have now. We may even continue to bear the scars and imperfections of this lifetime! After his resurrection, Jesus still had holes in his hands and feet and a hole in his side! I just hope that John the Baptist isn't carrying is head in his hands, all around heaven! Gross!

Luke 2:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

We will still need to eat in heaven. There will be hunting and fishing and stealing honey from bees and fruit from trees. No wonder there will be struggles with others in heaven! Can you imagine all the vegan PETA members that will be there too!

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

There you have it OP! The Kingdom of Heaven will be just like life on Earth! That is of course, if you take the words that Jesus is said to have spoken as a true description from someone who supposedly knew.

reply to post by pheonix358
If heaven is not for you then I am sure God will be merciful and not subject you to it.

My question is this! For all the people that are going to Heaven, what will it be like? I am used to Freedom. Heaven is a Dictatorship. I am especially attached to the concept of Freedom of thought.

reply to post by pheonix358


My opinion..... Heaven AND Hell is simply a "state" of mind. Thats freedom of thought, huh?

What you believe and attach your mind to is ....believing.

I am careful as to what I attach my belief to. Its open for debate and there are many questions left to answer.