Where does the idea that Freemasons worship Lucifer come from??

So, as I am understanding this thread "Freemason is a fraternity of RELIGIOUS men who gathers together, it is NOT a religion". Okay, is there a freemasonry fraternity where being religion is NOT a requirement? I would like to attempt to try Freemason, but I do not subscribe to any religions, I consider my self to be agnostic-atheist, I do not subscribe to any particular beliefs without scientific evidence. Is there any choice for people like me?

in this case, Pepsie, I implore you to produce anything..... I repeat, .....anything that can prove that we worry about a goat in the least bit. It's a joke. It's always been a joke.

Why I did many times, it's in the treads we have been debating in. The goat and the initiation (Saturn), Father time and the virgin and many other things, the ring/seal of solomon (saturn) and many other things.

Second does Rosslyn, Chapel ring a bell ?

Meet father time, I mean Baphomet.

(where Levi got the idea)

Make me wrong on this one. Please....

You have been proved wrong many times, this would be just another of those times.

So far for the "Levi got it out of his behind part thing" you masons been spreading around.
I guess that is all gone now.

Many of the freemasonry symbology has basis in the occult. This is where this came from.

reply to post by babybunnies

Exactly what symbols is based on the occult?

reply to post by King Seesar

You do get some who join for selfish and ulterior motives, but that is discouraged and in fact is a violation of their petition.

I am not against an individual joining the political realm, but I am against the group as a whole intruding almost as if they were lobbyists as you see sometimes with the GOF. 

Whatever people think of these "higher degrees", if they do exist they are not Freemasonry and those "TPTB" members are probably on violation of conduct un-becoming a Mason.

Nepotism can occur anywhere and between anyone.  It is not exclusive between any group.

reply to post by pepsi78

As a Templar researcher (something I did before joining the Masons), there is much debate to the validity of the charges held against the Templars. King Phillip was a power hungry tyrant that needed to erase a debt without actually paying it.

No one truly knows the rituals of the Templars as most of their documents, archives, and "treasure" disappeared as it very apparent that the Templars were wary of the King, and were possibly warned of his charges.  Although not every country put the screws to the Templars like the French Inquisitors did.

It's why the masons hate king philip, because masons asocciate with the templars

You assume too much. Don't presume that you can speak for us.

when you ask them about Baphomet they come with two stories, one that Levi invented it from nothing, two that baphomet is refering to the prophet.

The drawing of Baphomet that is so popular today was originally drawn Eliphas Levi. Some theorize that 'Baphomet' is a bastardized version of 'Mohammed', but I don't agree with that theory. There's also the theory that 'Baphomet' is two words meaning 'Baptism of Wisdom'. Then we can leave the goat behind and look at the accusations of them worshipping a severed head, possibly that John the Baptist. Now we're jumping into the realm of the mysterious Shroud of Turin. Then there's the legends of the Holy Grail in all her variations.

reply to post by CanadaMaster

There are irregular bodies of Freemasonry that do admit atheists, but I don't know if there are any in Canada. Look up Grand Orients.

reply to post by pepsi78

What about Rosslyn Chapel? Your little picture link is broken.

Originally posted by fordrew
reply to post by pepsi78

 

I am very tired of you making fun of our sacred goat pepsi and frankly it has to stop.

reply to post by King Seesar

 

People who join Masonry to find powerful friends will not only be severly disappointed , but you will find such an attempt to be a huge waste of time. People looking for powerful allies will find the Rotary Club and likewise organizations to be more useful to them. People who join for powerful friends often end up leaving the fraternity. You will also be unliked by your brethren as they will know of your true intentions.

edit on 3-7-2011 by fordrew because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-7-2011 by fordrew because: (no reason given)

In America real powerful people in terms of the venue there(TPTB) looking for aren't as common as they use to be but in Europe it still holds pretty good power, but the TPTB infiltrate any where they can get a foot hold in and yes like i said before they have point men for there cause in Masonry and yes even American Masonry to a lesser extent, but your a hundred percent right they are more interested in the Rotary Club then in Masonry because of the contacts and they have more point men there as well, as far as your lodge throwing somebody out who got caught trying to make connections congrads you probably caught one of them and you did the right thing by throwing them out, like i said if the regular Masons got wind of any of this they would boot TPTB Masons from there lodge but they do things in such a way that its hard to sniff them out, so if this happened in your lodge again congrads....you saved people from getting sucked into there plans.

reply to post by King Seesar

Maser masons without the other degress know jack squat, it's why they opened the doors to all these people.
Only when you join the shriners or the scotish rite after you have become a master mason you begin to learn about things. Think about it, not even "NETWORK DUDE" is 33. Is there a 33 degree mason on this board ? there are many masons on this forum.

As a Templar researcher (something I did before joining the Masons), there is much debate to the validity of the charges held against the Templars. King Phillip was a power hungry tyrant that needed to erase a debt without actually paying it.

He may of been what you say but there is credibility to the clame that the templars did in fact worship a goat head or a symbol of a goat head. The templars came changed from what they learned at the temple.

The drawing of Baphomet that is so popular today was originally drawn Eliphas Levi.

He depicted the templars with it because it's what they worshiped. There is no other reason Levi would of included the templars.

Then we can leave the goat behind and look at the accusations of them worshipping a severed head, possibly that John the Baptist.

We can't leave the goat behind, the goat is linked with Saturn (capricorn) and the temple of solomon, the seal of solomon (Saturn) where the templars served.

What about Rosslyn Chapel? Your little picture link is broken.

Works fine for others, Rosslyn Chaple the Templar shrine, where Levi got his goat.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Is there a 33 degree mason on this board ? there are many masons on this forum.

Appak was. He's dead now. Lost in the Midwest is, but I haven't seen him around here lately.

reply to post by CanadaMaster


Greetings! International Co-Freemasonry Le Droit Humain and Grand Loge Du Canada Memphis Misraim are possibilities. I don't know if either have active Lodges in your province. Send them an email and ask them, they will be happy to help. Avoid groups that say they offer Freemasonry without conferring degrees by initiation as these are the experiences that make you a Mason. Good luck on your journey.

reply to post by JoshNorton

I know of Appak and I am very sorry for him, in general for the loss of life, I have nothing against individuals.
We are here to find out the truth.

reply to post by pepsi78


Masonic Light is a KCCH which is a step away from being a 33rd, but even back when he was just a 32nd degree black cap, I think his knowledge is way above most masons. But you have to ask yourself, is that because he was noticed and selected for the sooper secret TPTB side of masonry, or is it because he is a real smart guy, studies and keeps asking questions and learning new things? I think it's the latter.

reply to post by network dude


You answered it your self, it's the latter by one simple notion "he keeps asking questions", it's like what you did a while back when you went to your lodge and threw the book at them with questions of conspiracy and TPTB if you even have a point man in your lodge working for TPTB by doing what you did you will never be chosen to be let in the know of there agenda and you can thank God for that every day, you did the right thing.

reply to post by pepsi78

So no love for the York Rite? So the Shriners and the Scottish Rite control us? Bull crap. I've explained the structure and hierarchy of Freemasonry to you several times. The Scottish Rite does not have supreme control nor does the Shrine.

I do know of at least one 33rd degree Mason, but he hasn't been on in a while that I know of. Being a 33rd doesn't make you infallible or privy to some explosive secret. Nor is he held to be some kind of god to us Masons. He's earned a great deal of respect for the work he has put into Masonry and to his community. I'm not going to bad mouth 33rds as they are obviously dedicated Masons, but the Scottish Rite is a branch of the Freemasons.

Should we also forget the other rites such as the Swedish Rite?

reply to post by pepsi78

There is only rumor to what they supposedly did. I don't take anything from the Inquisition though as reliable as extreme torture will result only in what the inquisitors wanted to here to support their case.

So you're claiming Eliphas Levi was privy to lost historical data that proves what the Templars worshipped? How did he attain such information? And why can no one else find this information?

Rosslyn Chapel is a book written in stone. There is lots of symbolism there, not just Templar or Masonic. There is lots of possibilities with Rosslyn, but most notable historians on the subject agree that the Templars did not build Rosslyn. Robert Cooper does a great piece of the Rosslyn-Templar-Masonic myths.

There is only rumor to what they supposedly did. I don't take anything from the Inquisition though as reliable as extreme torture will result only in what the inquisitors wanted to here to support their case.

So you're claiming Eliphas Levi was privy to lost historical data that proves what the Templars worshipped? How did he attain such information? And why can no one else find this information?

Rosslyn Chapel is a book written in stone. There is lots of symbolism there, not just Templar or Masonic. There is lots of possibilities with Rosslyn, but most notable historians on the subject agree that the Templars did not build Rosslyn. Robert Cooper does a great piece of the Rosslyn-Templar-Masonic myths.

Based on what the curch said at that time, based on what the templar shrine holds (have you not seen the baphomet figure ?) and based on solomon temple and the seal as a represenation of saturn(capricorn) it is more than acceptable that the templars worshiped a goat head figure.

As for building of the shrine, you do not have to build a shrine to own it.

www.rosslyntemplar.com...
In 2003, The Da Vinci Code caused a global sensation suggesting Rosslyn Chapel in Midlothian was built by the Knights Templar to house a sensitive religious secret. Rosslyn has since become the focus of conspiracy theorists and grail seekers from all over the world; although this claim has been challenged by most academics as no proof exists to substantiate it.

However, a mysterious painting recently surfaced at auction in Edinburgh which had been kept in the Dalhousie family’s private collection for over 150 years. This mysterious painting entitled Templar Knight at Roslin Chapel, by R.T. McPherson, 1836 reopens the case.

Now the painting is real but let's move on.


Some facts.

www.cephas-library.com...
This name:"Templum Hiero-Solyma" carved onto the "Triple Tau" column of the Knights Templar's shrine at Rosslyn, Scotland. The chapel construction and stone work completed in 1480 AD. The Hebrews written down the name of Solyma like this: SLM (no vowels). We can pronounce it S(o)L(y)M(a), or S(a)L(e)M. Later the city called "Uru-Salem". The word "Iero" or "Hiero in front of the city's name remained and pronounced it "Iero Uru-Salem", "Ierusalem", finally "Jerusalem."

The triple tau, representation of Saturn (capricorn the goat) and it is connected to solomon.




We resume on the figure now, the statue built on the wall of the temple.
The baphomet figure on the temple, with wings, with the phallus, with the horns, where Levi got it from.

Looks like the curch and king philip as bad and ville as they were they have credibility against what you are saying, because it's just your words against facts.

reply to post by pepsi78

Except that the Pope absolved the Templars of their charges; see Chinon Parchment. The drawing is not proof of anything as you cannot say who drew that and even so, someone's rendition is not evidence, it's their opinion. Plus the Church at the time was in the pocket of Phillip. Again, the whole head worshiping thing is just rumor and speculation. No one knows as it is lost with history.

You're using a fictitious book as evidence? Random pictures? Torture-wrought confessions? These are your sources?

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by pepsi78

 

The drawing is not proof of anything as you cannot say who drew that and even so, someone's rendition is not evidence, it's their opinion. Plus the Church at the time was in the pocket of Phillip. Again, the whole head worshiping thing is just rumor and speculation. No one knows as it is lost with history.

You're using a fictitious book as evidence? Random pictures? Torture-wrought confessions? These are your sources?

I'm not using the fictionus book as evidence, the painting is not related to the book, it was used in the book but the painting is real.
I don't know what you are talking about. It is a real painting dated to 1836

It states very clear that it is not an invention by the book, but the book used the picture, and that the painting is authentic.

www.skt.org.uk...
The book is based on a pastel painting by R T McPherson in 1836 of a "Templar Knight at Roslin Chapel".

The curch has credibility because of other factors covered by evidence, of the statue carved in the wall, of the elements that represents saturn, and of course the picture of the templar, these things are real.

Originally posted by pepsi78

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by pepsi78

 

The drawing is not proof of anything as you cannot say who drew that and even so, someone's rendition is not evidence, it's their opinion. Plus the Church at the time was in the pocket of Phillip. Again, the whole head worshiping thing is just rumor and speculation. No one knows as it is lost with history.

You're using a fictitious book as evidence? Random pictures? Torture-wrought confessions? These are your sources?

I'm not using the fictionus book as evidence, the painting is not related to the book, it was used in the book but the painting is real.
I don't know what you are talking about. It is a real painting dated to 1836

It states very clear that it is not an invention by the book, but the book used the picture, and that the painting is authentic.

www.skt.org.uk...
The book is based on a pastel painting by R T McPherson in 1836 of a "Templar Knight at Roslin Chapel".

The curch has credibility covered by evidence, of the statue carved in the wall, of the elements that represents saturn, and of course the picture of the templar, these things are real.

edit on 4-7-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)

The church having any credibility in any way shape or form is nauseatingly hilarious.
Just saying.

The church having any credibility in any way shape or form is nauseatingly hilarious.
Just saying.

I'm saying the story from that time has credibility based on the other factors found, it go's along with the other findings.