Where does the idea that Freemasons worship Lucifer come from??

Originally posted by King Seesar
Mason's started out as builders and that's all that they were, where they got some of there orginal symbolism from was ancient Egypt and the origins of the orginal symbolism from Egypt is by Christian definition satanic to which i don't disagree with, however (and here comes the tricky part) the Masons changed the symbolism from there orginal occultic beginings to something different which is much less satanic (if at all) then it's rooted beginings.


Where i think the confusion comes from is the way we perceive the Masons use of the symbolism, to which do we come to the conclusion that because some of the orginal symbolism from Egypt that they imploy is of a satanic origin there satanist or do we accept the fact that they have changed it enough that it no longer bares any resemblance to its satanic origin and arguments could be made both ways...hence we have over ten pages of debating.

I agree with you up to a point. I guess the issue I would take with your stance is that it's only considered "satanic" by Christians who think that any thing that isn't Christian is, by definition, "satanic", whether it actually has anything to do with Satan or not. Condemning a competing belief system, or demonizing an "other" is par for the course for fundamentalist practices, but doesn't make it right.

One things for sure both the orginal Egyptian meaning and the Mason's take on the Egyptian part of there symbols are of intrest to TPTB/modern Illuminati or what ever you wanna call that group because they use it for power and in most cases not for good use...

One of the reasons the Masons are frowned upon is because TPTB have infiltrated that group and use the Masons knowledge of the symbology for there own purpose so when you here the words "secret higher up Masons" it's just the infiltrators who use the knowledge of the Masons for nefarious means.

What "nefarious means" could one have access to by becoming a Mason that one couldn't do purely independent of any formal organization?

And, for that matter, how can such use of symbology be "evil"?

I mean, let's say a triangle was a Masonic symbol. And let's say J. Random Corporate Executive, TPTB, joined Masonry. Is he all the sudden going to have magickal and nefarious control over your average Christian, just by drawing triangles on his letterhead? Did he really need to join the Masons to be able to draw a triangle? Couldn't he have drawn a triangle any time he wanted, without anyone stopping him? And how is the presence of that triangle going to crush the common man under his oppressive thumb?

These are the important questions.

reply to post by JoshNorton


Good question...some of TPTB of course had to join Masonry to make sure they get the symbols and the theology right, for instance i could read a book on how to fly a airplane but unless i join pilot school or get formal training you better hope i'm not flying over your house or more so into your house...

When TPTB learn how to communicate the right way through symbols it holds lots of power such as it enables them to do certin things without ever having to communicate such and what better why to imploy black op type missions of a sense then without saying a word and there's a art to it as the Mason's know through there studies.

Also with the aid of magik and belief they can take these symbols and make them there own through illusion and the manipulation of energy....

I'll sort of give you a idea of what i mean, back in 2005 i ran across a document that explained how the modern day Illuminati (TPTB) created music slaves to do there bidding and the document explained how they use such triggers as the Wizard of Oz, Star Wars and the word Doc, now what i deduct is they take such popular and often used acreims such as the two movies i mentioned and the word Doc and take hold of them by various means in such a way as to perceive to the music slave that everytime one of those things are mentioned it's by there control and they can never escape the handler because now in the music slaves mind TPTB own the Wizard of Oz, Star Wars and the word Doc and everything that relates to them.

Now take what i just wrote about the music slave above and factor in the triangle and how clever TPTB have become at the manipulation of triggers and symbology that now when so many people see the triangle they think it's of Illuminati origin and control even if it's not but again maybe it is...see what i mean?

The funny thing is after i ran across that document on how to program a music slave i went back to the site the next day to print it out and it was gone and so was the site, like it never was there in the first place (que the Twilight Zone music).

Good question...some of TPTB of course had to join Masonry to make sure they get the symbols and the theology right, for instance i could read a book on how to fly a airplane but unless i join pilot school or get formal training you better hope i'm not flying over your house or more so into your house...

They teach it the wrong way on intention, read Albert Pike, the fresh members are misguided with intent.
Get your licence from masonry and you will crash you plane in the nearest house.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Read Albert Pike.

Good advice. You should take it.

You are to be true unto all men.

You are to be frank and sincere in all things.

You are to be earnest in doing whatever it is your duty to do.

And no man must repent that he has relied upon your resolve, your profession, or your word.

The great distinguishing characteristic of a Mason is sympathy with his kind. He recognizes in the human race one great family, all connected with himself by those invisible links, and that mighty net-work of circumstance, forged and woven by God.

Feeling that sympathy, it is his first Masonic duty to serve his fellow-man. At his first entrance into the Order, he ceases to be isolated, and becomes one of a great brotherhood, assuming new duties toward every Mason that lives, as every Mason at the same moment assumes them toward him.

Nor are those duties on his part confined to Masons alone. He assumes many in regard to his country, and especially toward the great, suffering masses of the common people; for they too are his brethren, and God hears them, inarticulate as the moanings of their misery are. By all proper means, of persuasion and influence, and otherwise, if the occasion and emergency require, he is bound to defend them against oppression, and tyrannical and illegal exactions.

Morals & Dogma, Ch. XI, pp 176-177.

reply to post by AlbertPike


What a smart guy you are.

From morals and dogma.

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry."

Lie with intent to your fellow members "this is nothing like teaching in good manner" "to get your pilot licence"

Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry."

Only those get to see the truth.

reply to post by pepsi78


and yet he wrote that in a book for all to read. Hmmm.........almost like there is another meaning there.....
Say, pepsie, what did Pike think about the Templar link with masonry when he wrote this?

reply to post by network dude


It is reserved for masonry, the blue degree and the adepts and princes of masonry, it is refering to masons.

Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by network dude

 

It is reserved for masonry, the blue degree and the adepts and princes of masonry, it is refering to masons.

no, it is a book available to the public. Do you know the answer to the question I asked, or not?

reply to post by pepsi78

I know how to fly. It's not that hard.

Always remember, launching/take-off is optional, but landing is mandatory...it's just on how you land that makes it good or not.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by pepsi78

 

I know how to fly. It's not that hard.

Always remember, launching/take-off is optional, but landing is mandatory...it's just on how you land that makes it good or not.

any landing that you walk away from is a good landing.

Goats are cool. Always trying to climb everything. I wish I had horns like a goat
As it seems to me so far the whole Baphomet/Lucifer archetype is nothing more that an attempt to recast the old shamanistic/druid/primitivist imaginings and coagulation's of an embodiment of a nature god with the horns representing the male blah blah blah etc. For the most part the re-appropriation of the ancient by the modern dullard religions has been quite effective which speaks volumes of the caliber of minds it has cultivated in its 2000 year infancy. The whole idea of good versus evil duality thing is tired and boring. I'm looking forward to seeing more people take off the training wheels of morality.

Originally posted by pepsi78

Good question...some of TPTB of course had to join Masonry to make sure they get the symbols and the theology right, for instance i could read a book on how to fly a airplane but unless i join pilot school or get formal training you better hope i'm not flying over your house or more so into your house...

They teach it the wrong way on intention, read Albert Pike, the fresh members are misguided with intent.
Get your licence from masonry and you will crash you plane in the nearest house.

You and me agree about some of the things that gos on with Masonry just in a different way, you see i think what the non powers that be Masons are taught is what true Masonry is supposed to be remember i used the word supposed, but i think there's a side group of the Mason's that are branded with the emphasis of being called "the higher ups" who are nothing more then people who joined the Masons to learn there trade and add there own meaning to the symbols and what they represent and i think this group gives them selfs fake higher degrees which are recognized by the people in the know meaning the ones involved and yes they do have nefarious goals to which you pretty much hit on everyone, so i do believe you and your thesis on the "higher ups" aka made up degrees within the inner circle of the people who joined Masonry for this reason.



But the regular Masons don't officially recognize these degrees that the secret side sect appoint them selfs and if the regular Masons ever caught them doing this and using Masonry as a shield and buffer for there goals they would be kicked out.....that's my theory anyway, that's why i think you have two different stories one from the Masons and one from the people who claim that the "higher ups" are part of TPTB/Illuminati and in a sense there both right so my theory seems to indicate why and how they have such opposing ideas.

My two cents anyway....

But the regular Masons don't officially recognize these degrees that the secret side sect appoint them selfs and if the regular Masons ever caught them doing this and using Masonry as a shield and buffer for there goals they would be kicked out.....that's my theory anyway, that's why i think you have two different stories one from the Masons and one from the people who claim that the "higher ups" are part of TPTB/Illuminati and in a sense there both right so my theory seems to indicate why and how they have such opposing ideas.

My personal opinion is masonry is a big no no.
Why take oaths in the first place, get your self obligated, binded. As on to what you say , I view it otherwise, higher, upper part control the whole masonic body, it's just like in the army they have degrees, 33 the highest.
Who needs degrees and why join, the whole thing is like a military institution where you have the highest discipline, there for making a "better man out of you" notice "a better man" not a better person. It's where you "man up" and become a "big boy" , part of the "big boys club"

Of course anyone with a mind of it's own will see this, how flawed it is, they can't see it because they act like robots. There is a big difference between the mind and the brain, the brain is nothing but a robotic processor, the inferior part of the mind. Since they base their system only on books and learning like a robot they will never atain a true higher degree, the connection to god that we all want and desire. That does not come from being a good mason, but it comes from within your self, from your true being. With that comes true knowlege and wisdom.


Look at this guy how he acts, it's not even about Lucifer

reply to post by pepsi78


Yea i'v seen that video before, as for yout take on Masonry i'll say that i'm anti any secret societies not just the Masons but any secret society, don't get me wrong i'm all for privacy but i don't like the idea of a society that is secret, because what it could become or how it could be used altho the typical Masons seem to have the official purpose under control as much as one could expect.


So we both agree that there are nefarious Masons using the veil of secrecy for there own purpose but you think it's there real leaders like a high ranking military person and i think it's just a side group that has secretly infiltrated the group and uses the Mason knowledge combined with there own for said nefarious purpose.

Yea i'v seen that video before, as for yout take on Masonry i'll say that i'm anti any secret societies not just the Masons but any secret society, don't get me wrong i'm all for privacy but i don't like the idea of a society that is secret, because what it could become or how it could be used altho the typical Masons seem to have the official purpose under control as much as one could expect.

Secrets are not bad, people that are not ready for them, for what they offer I would think, put them to bad use, or too cause harm, but when you keep the secrets to manipulate others then it becomes offending.

Sort of you don't know what I know so I'll use it to my advantage to control you.
Instead of I'll keep it secret from you because I'm afraid you will use them in a bad manner, or I am not allowed to share them with you it is forbiten. But we all know It is "I'll use all I know to control and manipulate you."
Masons should not even be involved in politics, the higher degree masons anyway.

So we both agree that there are nefarious Masons using the veil of secrecy for there own purpose but you think it's there real leaders like a high ranking military person and i think it's just a side group that has secretly infiltrated the group and uses the Mason knowledge combined with there own for said nefarious purpose.

I think masonry as a whole is part of the establishment, part of the empire. It's just an institution out of the many.

Originally posted by King Seesar
You and me agree about some of the things that gos on with Masonry just in a different way, you see i think what the non powers that be Masons are taught is what true Masonry is supposed to be remember i used the word supposed, but i think there's a side group of the Mason's that are branded with the emphasis of being called "the higher ups" who are nothing more then people who joined the Masons to learn there trade and add there own meaning to the symbols and what they represent and i think this group gives them selfs fake higher degrees which are recognized by the people in the know meaning the ones involved and yes they do have nefarious goals to which you pretty much hit on everyone, so i do believe you and your thesis on the "higher ups" aka made up degrees within the inner circle of the people who joined Masonry for this reason.

But the regular Masons don't officially recognize these degrees that the secret side sect appoint them selfs and if the regular Masons ever caught them doing this and using Masonry as a shield and buffer for there goals they would be kicked out.....that's my theory anyway, that's why i think you have two different stories one from the Masons and one from the people who claim that the "higher ups" are part of TPTB/Illuminati and in a sense there both right so my theory seems to indicate why and how they have such opposing ideas.

You seem to be coming at this from a perfectly reasonable point of view, so let me offer a further suggestion for you to consider.

If, as you say, these "higher ups" are not recognized by regular Masons, then why would such higher ups have to be Masons at all to begin with? As it's your position that they do not wield direct control over the majority of Masonry (as opposed to Pepsi's view), then what benefit would the powers that be have in joining Masonry, or, for that matter, why couldn't there be Powers that Be who have absolutely nothing to do with Masonry? I mean, if there's not a hierarchal connection, then joining the regular Masons first wouldn't be a prerequisite, would it?

reply to post by pepsi78


Yea secrets aren't bad in terms of privacy in your own home and such things, for example if a person was physically abused by there mother or father and is now a adult and only wants to tell his wife or her husband this story that's a secret between both of them and he or she has every right to keep it a secret, when i said i'm againt secrets it's secrets more along the lines of what you are talking about...

I think The Powers That Be (TPTB) have many sub groups and have infiltrated many spectrums such as Hollywood religion the military industrial complex including its subsidiaries such as the CIA FBI and there foreign counterparts and yes Masonry as well and the sub groups have point men in each infiltration that keep in contact with each other to make sure things are going smoothly in a sort of organized chaotic way.

reply to post by JoshNorton


Oh i think there's a ton of people part of the powers that be that aren't Masons the majority in fact, i just see Masonry as one group TPTB have infiltrated and set up shop, as too why the powers that be would want anything to do with Masonry its because there's enough powerful people in Masonry for there people to do business with and make contacts that could be of use, also they want to learn the esoteric studies of the Masons along with the Egyptian meaning of the symbols and of course they take these symbols and make them there own which gives the illusion of more power then they already have.

When you see Mason or Egyptian symbols in movies and such there not really recognized as Mason or ancient Egyptian symbols anymore but the symbols of TPTB or modern day Illuminati or what ever people wanna call the group/system, so you see there's more then one reason to have there people involved with Masonry.

when i said i'm againt secrets it's secrets more along the lines of what you are talking about...

No, secrets are fine, secrets can be a danger into the wrong hand, what is bad is using the secrets you know to control others, that is the problem, only women do that anyway. They act like women, the whole establishment.
I would call them the virginia gals. These are not real men, those men are gone, like the fathers who founded
united states, some of them were masons, but I have a great respect for people such as them. Those were true men, not these thin foil ass monkeys you see today around as your presidents, they hold no value, they are a bunch of corupted crooks, part of the global establishment mob. (I place masonry along with them)

The way I see it you must be worthy to even have a secret, never mind keeping it.
People that are not worthy will use the secrets against you, control you with what they know works.
As I stated it's not about having secrets, but using the secrets you hold against people in the scope of manipulating with the knowlege you have.