Where does the idea that Freemasons worship Lucifer come from??

I see

I would have used "corroborated" in the place of credibility. Credibility's meaning gets demoted enough as it is.

Originally posted by pepsi78
I don't know what you are talking about. It is a real painting dated to 1836

And where is the image of Baphomet in that painting? The one that Levi got his idea from, so you claim? I'm not seeing it.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by pepsi78
I don't know what you are talking about. It is a real painting dated to 1836

And where is the image of Baphomet in that painting? The one that Levi got his idea from, so you claim? I'm not seeing it.

The image was not about baphomet, but the templar at the shrine/chaple.

The image of baphomet from the chaple was presented in the post but since you can not view it then you can rely on others to tell you I'm telling the truth along with the other symbols that represent Saturn (capricorn) also related to Solomon where the templars served.

reply to post by pepsi78


Ok, I've found the engraving of Baphomet elsewhere (since your link is broken), but still no evidence that that particular image predates Levi's.

reply to post by pepsi78


I believe that what happened to the Knights Templar was indeed a result of an ancient ritual associated with a goat. The scapegoat ritual occurs when a community projected their own sins to a goat and then drive it into the wilderness.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by pepsi78

 

Ok, I've found the engraving of Baphomet elsewhere (since your link is broken), but still no evidence that that particular image predates Levi's.

What are you talking about ? The sclupture in the wall is built with the shrine, part of the shrine design.

en.wikipedia.org...
Construction of the chapel began on 20 September 1456, although it is often been recorded as 1446. The confusion over the building date comes from the chapel's receiving its founding charter to build a collegiate chapel in 1446 from Rome. Sinclair did not start to build the chapel until he had built houses for his craftsmen. Although the original building was to be cruciform in shape, it was never completed; only the choir was constructed, with the retro-chapel, otherwise called the Lady Chapel, built on the much earlier crypt (Lower Chapel) believed to form part of an earlier castle. The foundations of the unbuilt nave and transepts stretching to a distance of 90 feet were recorded in the 19th century. The decorative carving was executed over a forty-year period. After the founder's death, construction of the planned nave and transepts was abandoned - either from lack of funds, lack of interest or a change in liturgical fashion. The Lower Chapel (also known as the crypt or sacristy) should not be confused with the burial vaults that lie underneath Rosslyn Chapel.[1]

en.wikipedia.org...
In 1818, the name Baphomet appeared in the essay by the Viennese Orientalist Joseph Freiherr von Hammer-Purgstall, Mysterium Baphometis revelatum, seu Fratres Militiæ Templi, qua Gnostici et quidem Ophiani, Apostasiæ, Idoloduliæ et Impuritatis convicti, per ipsa eorum Monumenta[35] ("Discovery of the Mystery of Baphomet, by which the Knights Templars, like the Gnostics and Ophites, are convicted of Apostasy, of Idolatry and of moral Impurity, by their own Monuments"), which presented an elaborate pseudohistory constructed to discredit Templarist Masonry and, by extension, Freemasonry itself.[36] Following Nicolai, he argued, using as archaeological evidence "Baphomets" faked by earlier scholars[citation needed] and literary evidence such as the Grail romances, that the Templars were Gnostics and the "Templars' head" was a Gnostic idol called Baphomet.

reply to post by pepsi78


What sculpture are you talking about?

Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by pepsi78

 

What sculpture are you talking about?

The one engraved on the top wall.

I've always thought the image of Baphomet looks pretty cool.

Its funny that so many religious types and their religions get all self righteous and pious in identifying evil but still somehow miss that their own religions are the greatest purveyors of genocide,war and lies.

Talk about hoodwinked

Up is down and down is up.

I think it stands to reason that the image of Baphomet that most people are familiar with is nothing more that a recasting of older druid and shamanic archetype of a horned representation of the unity of male and female in nature.
Considering that the Judeo-Christians stole all their holidays and re-appropriated their story lines from much much older cultures. It follows logic that they would demonize the old gods. It makes sense.

Is there really anything more evil than what has been done over and over and over again in the name of God in organized religion?

fascinatingly hilarious.





Colonization of the mind.

Originally posted by pepsi78
The one engraved on the top wall.

OK, just so we're clear here, you're saying that this carving in Rosslyn Chapel
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a25ead5d7c6c.jpg[/atsimg]
is the basis for Levi's depiction of Baphomet
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2e4b19d062d8.jpg[/atsimg]
?

Then why are you showing us this painting
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6d96e992cadd.jpg[/atsimg]
and why is it important to us that it was made in 1836?

God help me, I'm honestly trying to follow your argument, but I can't find a logical thread tying any of it together!

reply to post by JoshNorton


Indeed , But I think the feather in his hat says all that need be said. He is quite dashing. Though as a whole I think the painting could defiantly use some horns and tits.

reply to post by JoshNorton

It is simple. The painting of the templar connects the templars to the shrine, among the other things.
The painting is called templar at the Rosslyn Chaple. Why would anyone 200 years ago paint the templar at the chaple, because the templars are conected to the place, meaning someone knew of that 200 years ago.

Remember this was not about conspiracty theory but art. It simply places the templars there from a neutral point of view.

So is Fred Flintstone a luciferian too? When him and Barney go to the lodge they are wearing horned hats.

reply to post by IKTOMI


1 Fred and barney are not templars, what you are talking about is regular people visiting a shrine, this is not the case for the templars.

There are other symbols in the shrine that connect to the templars and to solomon.

Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by IKTOMI

 

1 Fred and barney are not templars, what you are talking about is regular people visiting a shrine, this is not the case for the templars.

There are other symbols in the shrine that connect to the templars and to solomon.
[/quote ]


I am quite aware. I am a Free & Accepted Mason. I also know that there is a lot more to the story. Perhaps someday you will have enough interest to go and research further

edit on 06/28/2011 by IKTOMI because: It looked weird.

I think it stands to reason that the image of Baphomet that most people are familiar with is nothing more that a recasting of older druid and shamanic archetype of a horned representation of the unity of male and female in
nature.

Not really it represents the material notion of satanism, greed, desire you name it.

Considering that the Judeo-Christians stole all their holidays and re-appropriated their story lines from much much older cultures. It follows logic that they would demonize the old gods. It makes sense.

No not really, you are mixing it up, it is the "roman empire" who imported those things into Christianity and made a forged religion "same roman empire in power today" Christianity is a forged religion and has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. Did you not hear my view on the Catholic religion that it is satanic ?

Is there really anything more evil than what has been done over and over and over again in the name of God in organized religion?

You mean the evil crusades done by the knight templars ? and other crussaders ? I agree. Tho I can't agree with you on god, god has nothing to do with the crussades. God says no such thing, it is you inventing.

You even hear masons saying, why I am an angelical, or I'm a good catholic.

reply to post by chief_counsellor


No such thing as lucifer or the devil or satan....as you all have been taught.

However there is illuminism and the level above illuminism which is real strange.

Originally posted by pepsi78

I think it stands to reason that the image of Baphomet that most people are familiar with is nothing more that a recasting of older druid and shamanic archetype of a horned representation of the unity of male and female in
nature.

Not really it represents the material notion of satanism, greed, desire you name it.


No not really when you put it in context of the original belief systems.

Considering that the Judeo-Christians stole all their holidays and re-appropriated their story lines from much much older cultures. It follows logic that they would demonize the old gods. It makes sense.

No not really, you are mixing it up, it is the "roman empire" who imported those things into Christianity and made a forged religion "same roman empire in power today" Christianity is a forged religion and has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. Did you not hear my view on the Catholic religion that it is satanic ?


No not really you obviously have not read or researched these topics as much as I have.

Is there really anything more evil than what has been done over and over and over again in the name of God in organized religion?

You mean the evil crusades done by the knight templars ? and other crussaders ? I agree. Tho I can't agree with you on god, god has nothing to do with the crussades. God says no such thing, it is you inventing.

You even hear masons saying, why I am an angelical, or I'm a good catholic.

edit on 4-7-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)

Im sorry you need to research these subjects a lot more before we can have a real discussion about it.

Its kind of annoying to having you tell me what my reality structure is or what I say really means.

Swimming up stream to prove a point to you sounds boring.

Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by JoshNorton

 

It is simple. The painting of the templar connects the templars to the shrine, among the other things.
The painting is called templar at the Rosslyn Chaple. Why would anyone 200 years ago paint the templar at the chaple, because the templars are conected to the place, meaning someone knew of that 200 years ago.

No, actually. Someone 200 years ago believed there was a connection, but that doesn't mean that they knew or had any proof. You speculating on what someone 200 years ago was thinking is about as valid as someone 200 years ago speculating there were Templars in Rosslyn 700 years ago.

Before the painting was discovered there was already claims that it was a templar shrine. The painting would of not be maid, why would anyone speculate 200 years ago ? there is no reason. The painting was made because it was a termplar shrine, artists don't speculate, they just paint.
Even your fellow masons dissagree with you. They named their selfs "the Rosslyn Templars"
You are also forgetting other elements like the triple tau.

If Levi got the goat from the same chaple, think about it, why would Levi depict the templars in the picture ?
There is no reason why he would do so. Levi gets his goat from the same shrine depicting the templars in his painting. Then another person, the artist/painter we are talking about depicts the same templars at the same place, and this with the others elements besides the paintings pointing to the same thing.

www.rosslyntemplars.org.uk...
It is perhaps important to make clear some facts about this web site, so that no one is misled or mistaken as to its purpose and function. The Rosslyn Templars is a small group of Scottish Freemasons dedicated to researching Rosslyn Chapel. The group is self-funding and is entirely independent of any other group whatsoever. Therefore, although all members are Freemasons they do not act for, or represent any other group of Freemasons. Nor do they have any connection with any particular branch of Freemasonry such as the Scottish Masonic Knights Templar whose governing body is the Great Priory of Scotland. This decision was made in order to maintain a strict independence from any other Masonic organisation.