" Climate Change Is Not A Hoax", says Obama!!??

reply to post by MamaJ


And just like I expected, the know it all's came out to attack. Like I'm going to believe a few ATS'ers
over SEVERAL scientists from all over the world.
Scientists that have came up with the same conclusion.
Scientists I might add, that have no ties with the oil industry
All you have to do is walk outside or turn on the news
to see that something dramatically is happening all around the world.
It's must be normal and natural right guys?

Let's just say we, the perfect little humans haven't harmed Mother Earth in any way what-so-ever.
Our perfect species ability to cut down millions of tree's,
spray harmful chemicals onto or food,hormones and
steroids shot into our animals and yes of course our massive use of fossil fuels.
(not to mention the endless amounts of oil we've spilled in our oceans)
Let's just say none of this is harmful to Earth in any way.
Don't you think it's time we get off foreign oil regardless of
the effects it has on our environment or not?

Don't ya think we should stop spraying chemicals and poisons onto our food supply?
or let me guess, that doesn't have any negative effect on us either right?
I think that this was the main awareness Obama was trying to make.
At least he can admit we have a problem with foreign oil dependency
Unlike Republicans who want even mention we have a problem. (And why would they
when a lot of their donors are oil companies??)

Regardless of what any of the 'know it all's" think you know, my gut and intuition
tell me that our environment is struggling. Something is off regardless of what
scientists are saying or not.
I'm curious, what do the non believers (of climate change) think we should do?
Do you think we should keep on living like we are?
Don't change a thing? Stay addicted to fossil fuels which we know we'll eventually run out of?
I'm so f@#%ing sick and tired of hearing people debate this obvious problem we're having.
Maybe when half the world is flooded and our population is cut down in half
will you people start to wake up and realize........
THERE IS A PROBLEM and we might just might be contributing to it

Hey pluginkid: we know the climate is changing but IMPLYING that we must now be taxed into oblivion to fix it, is not only egotistical (that humans alone destroyed our solar system) but based on nothing but the whims of a few.
You still believe obama is for the little people? The bailouts alone prove your intuition false.

Originally posted by Annee

Ya know what - - I don't care why the climate is changing - - fact is - - it is.

I find "why" a stupid argument.

I find "we need to do something about it" - a smart position.

I agree we need to do something about it, and I hear you about not wanting to argue the why's, but understanding "why" it's happening is crucial to us knowing what needs to be changed.

We know why it's happening, we all need to own up to it and change our ways or accept that we killed ourselves. would it really be so surprising that humans put money so high, it became our downfall? Would that really surprise anyone that we could live in denial, cling to greed, and all suffer and die for that ignorance? To me it just sounds like a new bible in the making...

How man's greed and arrogance brought about their own demise. That even when the poles melted and the lakes dried. Man, who pumped smoke into the air twenty four hours a day, and cut down all the trees, and turned the oceans black with oil, blamed it all on the sun. It's perfect... And whats the moral of the future story? Personal responsibility. The story of man crapping in his own bed for a hundred years, and insisting "nothing wrong here, the flies always come out at this time of year".

Incoming carbon Tax !!!
lol

reply to post by MamaJ


You do realize that the Earth will be at perihelion with the Sun in January, right? You do realize that the Sun is going into its Solar Max cycle, right? You do realize that we are heading through a lightly dispersed nebula that lies on the equatorial plane of the present spiral arm and there will be increased thermal conductivity between the Sun and all the planets, right?

There was no hint of amusement in Obama's response.

"My plan will continue to reduce the carbon pollution that is heating our planet, because climate change is not a hoax," he said, as he accepted his party's presidential nomination for the tight-fought election in November.

"More droughts and floods and wildfires are not a joke," he said. "They are a threat to our children's future."

We have these incredible and almost unimaginable external forces working on our planet and solar system, changing the weather, but because Obama says it's happening and he has a plan to fix it, you believe it, is that right? If we just throw the peoples tax money at this problem, it will all go away, is that right? Because carbon levels cause temperature increase, even though it has been proven that carbon increases lag behind temperature increase, hmmmmm. Can't let the damned facts get in the way now can we?

It is highly improbable that we can control the output of the Sun, change the course of our solar system through the galaxy or change the time of perihelion. If it gets too hot around the equator, move north... too cold, move south. We have all seen how well Obama invests money and fails consistently in allegedly green energy.

See the movie "Idiocracy," I truly believe that is where we are headed, sooner than later.

Cheers - Dave

Originally posted by wewillnotcomply666
Incoming carbon Tax !!!
lol

What does carbon tax or any tax matter when dealing with possible extinction of the human species?

Is your life worth so little?

Originally posted by Grimpachi

Originally posted by wewillnotcomply666
Incoming carbon Tax !!!
lol

What does carbon tax or any tax matter when dealing with possible extinction of the human species?

Is your life worth so little?

Why do you guys think we can stop the earth from "burning up"? Again, there are no solutions offered, except vote for democrats..................

reply to post by HamrHeed


Democrats are not the only ones who can help but they seem to be the only ones that will even admit there is a problem.

The report I read on Romney’s energy plan for the future did not have any that would be 0 investments in renewable energy. That is probably why people do not trust republicans when it comes to matters of the planet.

The other question of why we think we can stop our planet from burning up as you put it. Because scientists have told us we can. There are many reports that outline what must be done to accomplish this.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by HamrHeed

 

Democrats are not the only ones who can help but they seem to be the only ones that will even admit there is a problem.

The report I read on Romneys energy plan for the future did not have any that would be 0 investment in renewable energy. That is probably why people do not trust republicans when it comes to matters of the planet.

So do democrats plan on taxing or sanctioning 3rd world countries because they're polluting? Or just first world countries?

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by HamrHeed

 

Democrats are not the only ones who can help but they seem to be the only ones that will even admit there is a problem.

The report I read on Romneys energy plan for the future did not have any that would be 0 investment in renewable energy. That is probably why people do not trust republicans when it comes to matters of the planet.

The other question of why we think we can stop our planet from burning up as you put it. Because scientists have told us we can. There are many reports that outline what must be done to acomplish this.

edit on 8-9-2012 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

Ok well even nasa has shown that it's not just earths atmosphere that's changing. How do we tax the martians for their dirty carbone?


Sorry I might come off as abrasive.. I just don't understand why we should be taxed more..

Originally posted by HamrHeed
Hey pluginkid: we know the climate is changing but IMPLYING that we must now be taxed into oblivion to fix it, is not only egotistical (that humans alone destroyed our solar system) but based on nothing but the whims of a few.
You still believe obama is for the little people? The bailouts alone prove your intuition false.

I never said Obama is for the "little people" and as cliche as it sounds,
(especially here on ATS) I don't think
ANY politician is for us "little people".
To me, there is no difference between the
government and big business.
What I said is at least Obama admits we have a problem. Not only
will Romney not admit we have a problem AT ALL
(with climate change or a dependance on foreign fuel)
but either did Bush(at least not until he conveniently left office).
My point I was trying to make is the
Republicans agenda and SO obvious.
When oil companies are contributing to your campaign, why
in the hell would you admit that they may be the apart of the problem?
It's never going to happen.

And to be honest, if taxing us helps keep our environment from DYING
then uhhh I don't know how to say this but..........count me in.
We should of been taking care of this problem decades ago.
Now, because of hidden agendas and quite frankly, greed,
we have perpetuated this problem.
( I shouldn't say "we" but evil politicians & big business)
Possibly to the point of no return.Major disaster. Scary, scary stuff.

If we don't have our environment then EVERYTHING ELSE is irrelevant.
So if it's, A. possibly saving our environment but have to pay taxes
or B, fighting to the death not to pay anymore
taxes regardless of the consequences then I think I may have to go with A.
It's sort of a no-brainer to me but who knows...

reply to post by HamrHeed


I am not very knowledgeable on the carbon tax but from I understand the tax effects companies that excessively pollute it is not a tax on the everyday person.

It encourages companies to lesson there carbon footprint on the earth or energy companies to invest in renewable energy. One of the biggest coal companies has come out and said that climate change is real and it is being affected by man but there are more profits in burning coal than putting up solar arrays. Carbon tax is a way to incentivize going green.

Companies are shareholders and stocks do not have a conscience they only want profits it isn’t that they are evil but the way things are designed.

I have a 401k I do not pick the stocks a firm does and I even have stock in energy companies it isn’t that I want to destroy the earth LOL but I do want to make money and those stocks make more money than say solar stock.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by HamrHeed

 

I am not very knowledgeable on the carbon tax but from I understand the tax effects companies that excessively pollute it is not a tax on the everyday person.

It encourages companies to lesson there carbon footprint on the earth or energy companies to invest in renewable energy. One of the biggest coal companies has come out and said that climate change is real and it is being affected by man but there are more profits in burning coal than putting up solar arrays. Carbon tax is a way to incentivize going green.

Companies are shareholders and stocks do not have a conscience they only want profits it isn’t that they are evil but the way things are designed.

I have a 401k I do not pick the stocks a firm does and I even have stock in energy companies it isn’t that I want to destroy the earth LOL but I do want to make money and those stocks make more money than say solar stock.

That's a noble road to take but we all know that the middle class pays through inflation in the end. It never pans out like the politicians promise, that's my point.
Again, I applaud and agree that we should be focused on finding alternatives. At what cost though? Everythiing is connected to oil

Originally posted by pluginkid

Originally posted by HamrHeed
Hey pluginkid: we know the climate is changing but IMPLYING that we must now be taxed into oblivion to fix it, is not only egotistical (that humans alone destroyed our solar system) but based on nothing but the whims of a few.
You still believe obama is for the little people? The bailouts alone prove your intuition false.

I never said Obama is for the "little people" and as cliche as it sounds,
(especially here on ATS) I don't think
ANY politician is for us "little people".
To me, there is no difference between the
government and big business.
What I said is at least Obama admits we have a problem. Not only
will Romney not admit we have a problem AT ALL
(with climate change or a dependance on foreign fuel)
but either did Bush(at least not until he conveniently left office).
My point I was trying to make is the
Republicans agenda and SO obvious.
When oil companies are contributing to your campaign, why
in the hell would you admit that they may be the apart of the problem?
It's never going to happen.

And to be honest, if taxing us helps keep our environment from DYING
then uhhh I don't know how to say this but..........count me in.
We should of been taking care of this problem decades ago.
Now, because of hidden agendas and quite frankly, greed,
we have perpetuated this problem.
( I shouldn't say "we" but evil politicians & big business)
Possibly to the point of no return.Major disaster. Scary, scary stuff.

If we don't have our environment then EVERYTHING ELSE is irrelevant.
So if it's, A. possibly saving our environment but have to pay taxes
or B, fighting to the death not to pay anymore
taxes regardless of the consequences then I think I may have to go with A.
It's sort of a no-brainer to me but who knows...

Ok then all the people who believe carbon taxes are fair, should work for free?
It's quite the quagmire we're in. I just don't see any progression from either side, especially the progressives.
Again, I'm not denying that we don't have a problem on our hands.

Originally posted by HamrHeed

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by HamrHeed

 

.

That's a noble road to take but we all know that the middle class pays through inflation in the end. It never pans out like the politicians promise, that's my point.
Again, I applaud and agree that we should be focused on finding alternatives. At what cost though? Everythiing is connected to oil

At what cost? Hmm. That is a good question.
Then let me ask you this. How much is life worth to you? How much would you pay if say you were diagnosed with cancer and the doctors said without treatment you would die in 10 years but treatment will be expensive?

I look at it from that perspective.

reply to post by HamrHeed


"Ok then all the people who believe carbon taxes are fair, should work for free?
It's quite the quagmire we're in. I just don't see any progression from either side, especially the progressives.
Again, I'm not denying that we don't have a problem on our hands. "

Ummm I'm in a 'quagmire" right now.
I'm sorry to be so frank but what in the hell are you talking about?
"work for free"?
It's late and been a really long day so I'm a bit confused?
If folks believe in certain taxes, then we must work for free?

The point I was trying to make is if taxing us can possibly add a few years to our life or even,
give our children a longer life then tax away baby.
Every other taxation pales in comparison to the importance of this issue.
I think if we can stop debating whether or not this is a problem and start trying to reverse things,
(especially if we start seeing results)
the better off we will be.

Hell if we would just legalize marijuana(and tax) and finally do away with that ancient,
hypocritical fraud of a law then that alone would pull many states out of debt.
(not to mention the end of many drug lords in the process)
There are other ways to save money and save us on taxes.
Put our taxes to things that actually matter

Originally posted by Grimpachi

Originally posted by HamrHeed

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by HamrHeed

 

.

That's a noble road to take but we all know that the middle class pays through inflation in the end. It never pans out like the politicians promise, that's my point.
Again, I applaud and agree that we should be focused on finding alternatives. At what cost though? Everythiing is connected to oil

At what cost? Hmm. That is a good question.
Then let me ask you this. How much is life worth to you? How much would you pay if say you were diagnosed with cancer and the doctors said without treatment you would die in 10 years but treatment will be expensive?

I look at it from that perspective.
[/quote


But where do you get the hypothetical number of 10 from? It's important if you want to compare this to cancer metaphorically..
You are saying the sky is falling and we need to act.. So tell me the solution without enslaving the planet

Originally posted by HamrHeed

Originally posted by Grimpachi

Originally posted by HamrHeed

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by HamrHeed

 

.

That's a noble road to take but we all know that the middle class pays through inflation in the end. It never pans out like the politicians promise, that's my point.
Again, I applaud and agree that we should be focused on finding alternatives. At what cost though? Everythiing is connected to oil

At what cost? Hmm. That is a good question.
Then let me ask you this. How much is life worth to you? How much would you pay if say you were diagnosed with cancer and the doctors said without treatment you would die in 10 years but treatment will be expensive?

I look at it from that perspective.
[/quote


But where do you get the hypothetical number of 10 from? It's important if you want to compare this to cancer metaphorically..
You are saying the sky is falling and we need to act.. So tell me the solution without enslaving the planet

Would it matter if it was a hundred years saying you could live to be a 1000. Sorry bad form give me minute and I will find a report.[

edit on 8-9-2012 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by pluginkid
reply to post by HamrHeed

 

"Ok then all the people who believe carbon taxes are fair, should work for free?
It's quite the quagmire we're in. I just don't see any progression from either side, especially the progressives.
Again, I'm not denying that we don't have a problem on our hands.

"

Ummm I'm in a 'quagmire" right now.
I'm sorry to be so frank but what in the hell are you talking about?
"work for free"?
It's late and been a really long day so I'm a bit confused?
If folks believe in certain taxes, then we must work for free?

The point I was trying to make is if taxing us can possibly add a few years to our life or even,
give our children a longer life then tax away baby.
Every other taxation pales in comparison to the importance of this issue.
I think if we can stop debating whether or not this is a problem and start trying to reverse things,
(especially if we start seeing results)
the better off we will be.

Hell if we would just legalize marijuana(and tax) and finally do away with that ancient,
hypocritical fraud of a law then that alone would pull many states out of debt.
(not to mention the end of many drug lords in the process)
There are other ways to save money and save us on taxes.
Put our taxes to things that actually matter
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
America is what, 16 trillion in the hole? How much tax revenue will cover that if you're already paying high taxes (middle class) at this point?
It doesn't help when nobody is lending because the market is so unstable. Interest rates are high.. All on credit, borrowd from china..
And you don't see a problem

The Scariest damn scientific report I have ever read.

Global Extinction in your Lifetime
This report is probably the most frightening report I have ever read. Even if you take the time they say we have left and double it then that still isn’t much time left. This year has been the worst so far in loss of ice melt worldwide and it only looks like it is going to get worse.

The reason I believe so many people refuse to look at the science is that it frightens them either that or people believe it is not something that will greatly affect them in their lifetime so they will leave it to the next generation to deal with.
There was a study done on the psychology behind this and it found that it is very hard for most people to think in long term effects of just about anything .
Look at people who smoke cigarettes they know it can cause cancer and all kinds of health problems but they do it anyway. It is a slow suicide but socially accepted but if someone commits suicide it is not socially accepted the only difference is the length of time it takes to reach the same end result even if they do not get cancer it is a proven fact that smoking shortens a person’s life

Dr assisted suicide=illegal
Marlboro assisted suicide=perfectly legal

It doesn’t really make sense when you look at it in that fashion but people’s minds just work that way.

Nuke the planet = everyone screams in fear
Pollute the planet to death = they take the wait and see approach as long as it doesn’t kill us today.