Why should I go to hell?, page 12

3NL1GHT3N3D1

posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 10:51 PM

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reply to post by lambs to lions

I am already convinced, I'm just asking a simple question.

What truth am I denying exactly?

3NL1GHT3N3D1

posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 10:55 PM

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reply to post by bigcountry08

What you think doesn't matter either if that's the case. Are you implying that thinking is a waste of time? If so, that explains why you believe what you believe, you don't think about it, you just accept it without question.

Sorry to say, but you sound like a complete bigot and are the type that gives most Christians a bad name.

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jmdewey60

posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 11:13 PM

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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The only difference between me now and me while I was Christian is that I do not believe Jesus died on the cross or was resurrected three days later. I do not believe he walked on water or turned water into wine with a wave of a hand.

So tell me, why should I deserve to burn for eternity . . .

If you find it hard to believe in the supernatural with Jesus, why would you believe in something like hell to the point where you would be worried about it?
Fact: people die.
Do they go somewhere afterwards?
If so, then where? And if there is such a place, why not call it hell?
I think the Gospels have Jesus describing hell in a certain way because that was what the writers thought it was like. It does not have to be, and it could be something completely different.

edit on 16-8-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19

lambs to lions

posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 11:24 PM

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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If you have decided to turn your back on Christianity, then why concern yourself with Heaven or hell? You may only enter the kingdom of heaven through Jesus. It is the place of everlasting life for those who believe. I'm not sure why you would create a thread like this unless you are having doubts about your current "beliefs". I think it is normal to question, to seek. I hope you will keep your heart open as you search, He is calling to you. Peace.

3NL1GHT3N3D1

posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 11:36 PM

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reply to post by jmdewey60

I don't believe in hell, this thread was made for the sole purpose of discussion.

lambs to lions

posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 11:38 PM

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reply to post by jmdewey60

Hell is mentioned directly and indirectly in many books of the bible. It is mentioned in both old and new testemants, and in apocryphal books such as the Book of Enoch.

St0mP121

posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 12:05 AM

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Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Because, You asked me not to.

I'd like a better reason than 'because you don't believe in Jesus' please.

But since you want the answer you asked me not to give...

Why can't you answer the question? That's the purpose of this thread, to get an idea of why Christians believe someone who lives like I do deserves to go to hell.

In christian theology man is not saved by any other action other than the acceptance of the free gift of salvation. Nothing more, nothing less.

You rejected that, So to a christian, that is why.

So even though he has accepted the moral list or whatever you want to call it and just don't believe a few story's in a book that has been proven to be rewritten a FEW times BY MAN he should burn ? I don't see much forgiveness in that at all. Is that how you like to be treated ? If you don't believe in a story that's over 1000's of years old that has been passed over and rewritten and the 100's of life times you should spend eternity on fire? hmm ever hear of practice what you preach? is not forgiveness a big part. And he is practicing that way of life? But yet cant forgive. if you don't believe in the story's. You would think it would be more important to practice that way of life?
So a preacher that molests kids But asks for forgiveness on his deathbed will enter and this guy will burn?
Think i rather burn next to you 3NL1GHT3N3D1 then be next to some molester

MrLovenLight

posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 12:43 AM

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Are you guys aware that almost every Bible today uses the word "hell" in place of "hades" "sheol" or "gehenna" and all three of the latter have nothing to do with eternal suffering. Gehenna was a place on the outskirts of Jerusalem used to burn trash/garbage.. there was always a fire burning there to incinerate unwanted stuff similar to a dump that we might have outside of a city. "Hades" and "sheol" are best translated as "grave" or death, it was these words that are used to describe someone's actions/intent that are based off of fear or hate and that can be defined as evil. In other words, while being evil you are essentially dead to God/The Divine, and if you continue in your evil ways you most certainly will be suffering in this life, (that's what karma teaches right?) and once you are reborn into another life should you choose evil then you will suffer again, thus there is the potential for eternal suffering should you choose that path since life doesn't end it goes on forever.

I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread so the above may have already been mentioned. That is my personal understanding so far on what "hell" is. It's not what organized religion would like you to believe. If people are kept in constant fear they are more manageable. Also, I don't claim to have everything figured out but this thought process has made the most sense to me so far. Hell is a touchy subject as most people today don't like talking about it since it makes them feel uncomfortable XD. If you live in love and light there is nothing to fear. Much love... and light :]

catillacful

posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 12:56 AM

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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1[/iI There doesn't seem to be much, in my opinion, that makes Jesus special from all other prophets, without his death and resurrection. I mean, our biggest fear in life is death, so when someone comes along and shows us that when we live a life that is truly honorable and humble, then we have nothing to fear from death, that we can have an everlasting life with the Father, it puts hope and faith in our hearts,,Now, on the other hand, I have a problem with the Trinity,,,that Jesus is in fact, GOD,,,Jesus said that we should pray to the father, and although I try to emulate Jesus, I do not think he is GOD. I think that when one dies, that the Lord looks into their hears, and from that decides where their next destination is,,sorry about the grammar,,,

Speak3asy

posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Because you said you would lie if you have to. There i said it. Happy? :-) you did ask a question heheh

Now for my opinion; i understand and can promise to tell you not to worry. Seek and you will find. In the end we all understand the same thing because were on the same boat(planet).
Those mean jerks who impose fear on people do it because they feel the need to project their fear and hunger away from themselves as they show their face to you. Worry not child for we are children of the universe.

np6888

posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 01:36 AM
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Where in the New Testament(not Old) did anyone say you will go to hell for not believing in Jesus?

MrLovenLight

posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 02:42 AM
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reply to post by np6888

John 14:6 Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me'.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"

This doesn't exactly mention hell however but it is these verses that mainstream Christianity has established as the basis for an eternal reward such as heaven. It's also interesting when you try to define what believing in Jesus actually means.. In my mind it's not so much a definition of who he was, it is 'what' Jesus was.. he was and still is the single greatest example of unconditional love that we have physically experienced on this earth. So it makes alot of sense to correlate "loving other people" with "believing in Jesus" since that was the common denominator in almost everything he spoke about.
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bigcountry08

posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 06:44 AM
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Its funny you people call me a bigot and narrow minded becausae I tell you the facts, but all of your rebuttals come without facts only emotions.Give me proof to your claims that the bible has been tampered with, yes it has been translated but, the words have not been manipulated.

The problem here 3NL1GHT3N3D1 is that you never wanted to here my answer, because you already new it. You just wanted a feel good session between you and the rest of these pharisees telling yourself that your good people and that everything will be alright. Yes you may try to do good in your life, But if you even have 1/1,000,000 of a bit of sin in you and you do not except jesus then you will not go to heaven. These are not the words of a bigot they are the words of a person who knows his religion.

And yes critical thinking is a good thing, but not without trying to find an answer, if i just think something and then do not seek an answer, than that thought means nothing. But if I think then seek and find an answer and except that answer even though it may go against what my thought was I am a better and wiser man for it.

To all the people here on this forum today who said they are christians, but beleive that someone can got to heaven without excepting Jesus and make it there on good works alone, please show me the scripture where this is stated, if you can't then your a false prophet because your the ones who are manipulating what the bible says.

MamaJ

posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by MamaJ

What I'm trying to say is that if karma is based on one person affecting an entire world then wouldn't what Jesus did result in the world being peaceful and without conflict today?

What he did was for peace and if his karma affects the whole world then the world would be peaceful today. This is not the case, ever since he died on the cross, the world has gotten worse and worse. Countless wars have been fought since his death, so that in my opinion goes to show what he did had no affect on the world after his death. Not saying his teachings haven't had an impact, because they have, I am proof of that, and I assume you are as well, but when you look at the grand scheme of things, it has not affected anything.

The bible states that what one reaps is what one sows, this is true only on an individual level. I think you are getting karma/dharma mixed up with action/reaction. They are somewhat related but totally different concepts. Karma/dharma is on an individual level, action/reaction (cause and effect) is based on a worldly level.

Of course if someone sets off a nuclear bomb in a city, that city will be uninhabitable for many years afterwards, but that is not karma, it is cause and effect.

Hopefully I am articulating myself well enough for you to understand what I mean. Also, thanks for actually listening instead of jumping down my throat. I can really respect that kind of quality within someone. That shows you are trying to understand and I really appreciate that.

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What he showed through his dying sacrifice was not peace but to rectify the choices made in the garden, in my opinion.

His death brought even more division! Thats evident, huh? The act on the cross was not to lift the veil (show truth) but to show man kind his sacrifice for us back in the days of the garden. In genesis God says We created man in Our Image..... Its my belief we were there for the creation. Other references in the Bible make me believe it as well.

His next return will be for peace and truth becuase the truth will set us free. Free as in possibly no more reincarnation either. There is no truth in the world because mans ways are still focused on knowledge (technology), rather than life.

As far as words.... Karma, Universal or Planetary law, whatever, is an action that comes back to you as in you reap what you sow. Same as cause and effect in my opinion. Any choice made by you, me, us, indeed affects the whole.

To clarify in regards to Karma... Here are many views but notice the western view and the interesting view of Jainism..
en.wikipedia.org...
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amrith777

posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 07:18 AM
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I think your post above me is a very good one and cuts to the chase as far as the gist of things and is relatively simple and uncomplicated.

votan

posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 08:07 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If you do not believe in jesus then you can just as easily not believe in hell. If Jesus exists to keep you from going to hell and hell exists so Jesus can exist to keep you from going to hell... then you just eliminated hell as one of your possible destinations.

The whole point of life , according to the Bible, is to reconcile yourself back with God, Jesus was put there to facilitate that. If you do not reconcile with God your lack of finding God is what sends you to hell not so much your bad behavior. There is nothing you can do to earn your way to heaven because anything you do is crap compared to what Jesus did. So you just believe in Jesus and that is what reconciles you with God and keeps you from "hell". Once you accept Jesus you are to live as Christ did even though you will still fail because of your fallen nature.

IN other words being good is not what is supposed to keep you from "hell" (hell is a childrens term btw) it is supposed to be your reconcilliation with God through Jesus.

So why exactly are you worried about hell if you do not believe in Jesus???

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Jinxy

posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by bigcountry08
reply to post by dogstar23

"Yes that even means if a new born baby dies it goes to hell, not because god is an A-hole, but because Adam and Eve screwed up and f'd it all up for the rest of us, if you want to be mad at someone get pissed at them, not God he has nothing to do with it."

What in the Bible leads you to believe babies go to Hell? I have read nothing so far that leaves me with that impression.. Jesus always accepted children, he indicated that several times in the NT. Even in the OT Deuteronomy 1:39 God says, " your little ones.. your childeren,which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil,they shall go into it,and to them I will give it,and they will possess it." Doesn't that suggest that there is an age of accountability that babies and little children have not reached?.. Babies cannot accept what they do not know... Grown men and women have no excuse.

I haven't been studying for long and am not extraordinarily knowledgeable as so many on ATS seem to be,so please forgive me for asking questions that may be annoying. I ask not to be argumentative but out of a desire to learn and understand...
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Agoyahtah

posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by MamaJ

What I'm trying to say is that if karma is based on one person affecting an entire world then wouldn't what Jesus did result in the world being peaceful and without conflict today?

Jesus says he intended to bring war to earth, not peace.

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword

KJV Matthew 10:34

SOURCE: bible.cc...

Peace is there already in Heaven. You want peace? Then Heaven is the place for you. But, earth is a different matter. That's why when a person dies, the popular saying is, "Rest in Peace."

Hopefully, the dying person is going to the place of peace, which is Heaven.

As you can see, there has never been peace on Earth since Jesus came 2000 years ago, so the Bible is spot on correct.

FeatherofMaat

posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Ugh. There is no Hell. Move along.

MamaJ

posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by Agoyahtah

Exactly....

I find it more fun when I read the Bible through the eyes of my inner child. :-)

Here is a little something... allanturner.com...

“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes shall be they of his own household.” Again in Luke 12:49-53, the Lord said: “I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished! Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three. Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.” So, as shocking as it may sound, Jesus said that He came into this world to bring division. But, before we pursue this subject any further, it is absolutely essential that we understand the statements made in Isaiah 9:6; 2 Thessalonians 3:16; and Luke 2:14. First of all, one can be sure that these statements do not contradict what Jesus said in Matthew 10:34-36 and Luke 12:49-53. The Bible, the inspired word of God, does not contradict itself! In Luke 2:14, the angels and host of heaven are speaking of the peace that would, as a result of this child's work, be able to exist between God and man. As Romans 5:1 says, “having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” This peace was being bestowed upon all of mankind “through Jesus Christ” (Acts 10:36), and the “glory” for all of this belongs to “God in the highest.” “But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast” (Ephesians 2:4-9). In other words, all of mankind became the enemies of God through sin, and the only way they could be at peace with Him was through His goodwill or grace. This, and this alone, is that of which Luke 2:14 speaks. Yes, it would be true that men who were at peace with God through Jesus Christ would also learn how to be at peace with each other (Romans 12:18; Hebrews 12:14; 1 Peter 3:11), but this was clearly secondary to, and dependent upon, the peace that could, through Christ, exist between God and man. With this truth firmly fixed in our minds, it is now time for us to try and understand what the Lord meant when He said He came to cause division. Jesus Christ Must Be Taken Seriously

Although I think reincarnation when baptism or resurrection is mentioned....

I too believe in many mansions!!!
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