Why should I go to hell?

Originally posted by MamaJ
I happen to believe Jesus soul Is also Adams soul ( Luke traced the lineage and Matthew disagrees).

Your comment on the lineages is incorrect.

Matthew and Luke trace the lineages through Joseph and Mary, respectively. If you look at the chapters in Hebrew this becomes much clearer (the word translated "son of" [Heli] in Luke's gospel is quite non-specific, as Greek does not contain the concept of "son-in-law". Jewish custom, however, does; and it was common for the father of the bride to adopt the groom. In this instance, Mary's father adopted Joseph.

There is no conflict here at all.
The point of the two genealogies is to establish the validity of Christ's entitlement to the throne of David, both through his mother, and through his (earthly) father, so that there might be no dispute.

In reference to your contention that "nobody knows who wrote Matthew, or when it was written"...
There are extrabiblical references to the gospel of Matthew prior to the 2nd Century, so we know that it can't possibly be older than 100AD... plus you have the (rather important) fact that the book was written in Hebrew, for Hebrews, and yet contains no reference to the destruction of the temple, nor allusions to it (which occurred in 70ad), making it highly unlikely that the book postdates the destruction of the 2nd temple.

Put it this way.
If you were a Hebrew living in Israel in 70ad, and the temple had been destroyed... trust me, you'd think God had abandoned Israel. That would be an issue in desperate need of addressing... and a gospel writer simply wouldn't be able to get by without drawing attention to God's undying commitment to Israel, and by extension, the church. While all of these concepts are present, none are dealt with in a manner that suggests the type of ideological and existential conflict that the destruction of the 2nd temple would have caused.

On top of this, you have the fact that the Jewish Talmud contains passages in which the High Priest Gamaliel clearly and obviously parodies content from Matthew, and THAT document dates to 70ad... (note: I had a source for this bookmarked somewhere (yeah, I'm a bit of a bible nerd), but it seems to have passed beyond archives at the site that was hosting it. This was the original source: original source (now defunct))

and you have a number of convincing reasons why Matthew cannot be older than, most likely, 68-70ad.

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Have you EVER STUDIED AND RESEARCHED these scriptures by which you live by and judge others? If not, start today or when you have time. You are still in infancy stage in my opinion.

Do you place yourself upon a pedestal thinking you have it all figured out? You dont, unfortunately.

Do you have any idea the contradictions you find not only in the OT but the NT as well and why do you think that is?

When was Matthew, Luke, John, and Mark written and by whom? What was their goal in writing these texts?

History matters my friend and to not see clearly Jesus and Adam are the same soul is denying yourself truth that indeed makes more sense than you give yourself credit for being able to find.

Seek all your life.... You will find the truth eventually. If not in this life, another. I live by the same advice. :-)

Eta... Here is a link that may or may not open your eyes and heart. Allow truth and it will be given.

www.near-death.com...

edit on 16-8-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)

Riiight, and so you have it all figured out trying to tell me the same blooming thing, placing yourself on a pedestal and telling me you have it all figured out . History does matter, and i have been studying history for the last decade. I went to college for anthropology emphasis in archeaology. Thanks for being judgemental and calling me an infant btw.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by MamaJ

 

In my opinion, the karmic debt we pay only affects the world on an individual to individual basis. What one person does in the past doesn't affect the whole world in the future, it only affects what happens to THEM in their next life, no one else.

If what Jesus did in the past was so great and what he did affects the world today, then why is the world not so great now? From what I can tell, what Jesus did has no affect on us, otherwise everything would be all honky-dory, but it obviously isn't.

Karma is based on the theory that what you did in a past life carries over to the next. If you are a really good person, really good things will happen to you in your next life. If you are a really bad person, really bad things will happen to you in the next life. If what Jesus did was so great and what he did affects the entire world today, then why are we in the situation we are in now? In my opinion it is because what he did has no affect on the world as a whole.

What you're talking about is cause and effect, which has nothing to do with karma.

Not saying I'm right either, just saying what I feel.

edit on 16-8-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Its kind of like the butterfly effect. Each choice.... Think about it long and hard. Choices we make can have an effect on mankind in a drastic way. Atom bomb comes to my mind.

Looking out of my eyes what Jesus did was pay his debt to man and dramatically die on wood/ cross because as the son of man he made a choice that created death on earth. Like a planetary law, if you will. Hahaha... I know I have an imagimative brain.

The knowledge had a major effect on us all, again think about it.

Karma is indeed a part of a past life! This life requires one to KNOW this and act accordingly. Its a snowball effect so choose wisely, may just be wise to assume?

Cause and effect can definitely be intertwined with Karma. Cause you made a choice, now here is the consequence.. I see my daughter obtains Karma pretty quickly, almost immediately. Her choice can sometimes back fire in an instant. Lol

Did you notice the Experiment at the bottom of my last post? Thats pretty Incredible, I think.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Isn't that the exact thing you're doing? Saying you have it all figured out because Jesus is 'the (only) truth, the life, and the (only) way'?

I'm not taking sides here, just pointing out your contradiction.

reply to post by Awen24


I sited many links where In turn has the same language I was conveying and happen to disagree on some points you made ... :-)

I too am a geek of many things, Bible included and the History AS I SEE IT.

We have different perceptions. What you are saying just doesnt quite add up with what I think I know.

Eta... Also, yeah, the link you cited is not working? It has nothing to do with anything! Haha

I will also throw in this link, which indeed works.

Here is a difference with the lineage... Check it out.

Luke traces ADAM to David. Key word/ name here is Adam. Adam = Jesus

carm.org...

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Did I make you so mad you made me a " foe" of yours? Really?

How old are you?

Ahhhhhh.... Mr. Christian himself has made me a foe. :-(

I must have touched your heart and soul.....

Why would you believe you have all the answers and no one else does. At least I make it known its about my eyes and my perception in regards to MY belief.

Dear brother, forgive me. Seriously.... Do not hold a difference against me.

reply to post by MamaJ


I agree with this, did you see the edit I added at the bottom of the post?

Karma is somewhat based on the butterfly effect, but it is only based on an individual basis, not a wordly basis as with the butterfly effect.

As I said, what Jesus did was great, but it only affected his next life according to karma/dharma, not the events of this world he left behind. If what he did affects the world (as a whole) he left behind and is based on karma, his great act would make the world we live in today great, which is not the case right now. The world has gone to #, excuse my language.

Also, I respect your opinion a lot and respect you as a person, so don't take this as me disagreeing just to disagree.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Well, You say you don't lie, cheat, steal, ect, ect...But Jesus said if you say you have no sin then you are lieing. And everyone does bad things sometimes so your insinuating you do not have sin in you. Everyone sins therefore you are breaking God's laws, like satan did. No matter how big or small it is. You need a way to clense yourself from that sin and offer something. We have nothing to offer so Jesus is the offering.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I agree with this, did you see the edit I added at the bottom of the post?

Karma is somewhat based on the butterfly effect, but it is only based on an individual basis, not a wordly basis as with the butterfly effect.

As I said, what Jesus did was great, but it only affected his next life according to karma/dharma, not the events of this world he left behind. If what he did affects the world (as a whole) he left behind and is based on karma, his great act would make the world we live in now great, which is not the case right now. The world has gone to #, excuse my language.

Also, I respect your opinion a lot and respect you as a person, so don't take this as me disagreeing just to disagree.

edit on 16-8-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

It would though?

Why would it make it great now?

Its/ Hes coming back! He said he would... Or so says many... They say they were told this! Many people I tell ya! Lol

He is coming to tell the TRUTH and set mankind free!! The knowledge has created chaos, hasnt it?

Its all jumbled up and distorted becuase evil is known. Evil will have to be gone and then the world and man will have a taste of freedom because.... cause and effect here on Earth is governed by its own laws with God. Its just the nature of things... In my opinion. Cause and effect is a natural thing but Jesus having attained spiritual evolvement himself wants to lead the way as the first man, the son of God.

I could keep going as I love to think with others " out loud" and I appreciate the time given to explore the spiritual thoughts that come to mind. My son is staring at me, wanting time spent, he and I studying his vocab words ( hes 15) and man.... He is so cute! Lol I will come back in the morning to pick your brain again. :-)

Everyone makes it out the other side, every single soul/consciousness, for No One that is Love would ever give up on anyone, and my heart knew that when drawn to certain passages in the New Testament as a child, was guided by Spirit, read the bible and recoiled in HORROR, and Spirit taught me discernment as well, that the Tender Love is the Guide. And spoke up to a Roman Catholic priest about it too. There are many passages that Bear False Testimony Against the Goodness and Love of Dad and Mom and are the dark squares, the control squares. It up to your heart to know Love, and safeguard that heart of a child like Christ said.

In fact, Matthew 13, again, is telling us to deprogram from all the ISMS including our religions. And It is what I call the way of the mystic passage, where Christ tells us we can ask for help with this, for our sight and hearing to be healed and it will be done.

Christ also told them who their real father was.

That meant the Bible is something you have to be careful with.

Again the heart of a small child and safeguard that Love.

This is not an open door to sinning, but our souls have an overall frequency, an overall direction. And the school can take a lot longer for some.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
So tell me, why should I deserve to burn for eternity when I strive to emulate what Jesus was, a kind and loving person who holds no grudges and doesn't judge others based on their personal beliefs/opinions?

I'd like a better reason than 'because you don't believe in Jesus' please.

You don't go to hell just for not believing in Jesus.

There are other places to go. Heaven and Hell are really just two.

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. KJV John 14:1

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. KJV John 14:2

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. KJV John 14:3

Jesus himself says that God the Father has many "mansions". One of those is allocated to Jesus and all his followers. Jesus went to "prepare a place" for his followers.

So, if you don't believe in Jesus, there are still "many mansions" out there where there might be a place for you.

You just won't be hanging out with the Christians, that's all.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I used to be a christian until I found out every religious book was written by freemasons. They enforce religion. And if there was a heaven, they wouldnt be there.

Originally posted by benrl

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by benrl

 

So that's the only answer you can give? So me emulating exactly what Jesus taught earns me the prize of eternal suffering and pain?

Is Jesus in hell right now?

Murgatroid covered this, read his post, it states what needs to be done According to the Bible.

Deserving has nothing to it, you don't earn salvation according to Christianity.

Exactly it man..No brownie points and earning scores to get to Christ.

reply to post by MamaJ


What I'm trying to say is that if karma is based on one person affecting an entire world then wouldn't what Jesus did result in the world being peaceful and without conflict today?

What he did was for peace and if his karma affects the whole world then the world would be peaceful today. This is not the case, ever since he died on the cross, the world has gotten worse and worse. Countless wars have been fought since his death, so that in my opinion goes to show what he did had no affect on the world after his death. Not saying his teachings haven't had an impact, because they have, I am proof of that, and I assume you are as well, but when you look at the grand scheme of things, it has not affected anything.

The bible states that what one reaps is what one sows, this is true only on an individual level. I think you are getting karma/dharma mixed up with action/reaction. They are somewhat related but totally different concepts. Karma/dharma is on an individual level, action/reaction (cause and effect) is based on a worldly level.

Of course if someone sets off a nuclear bomb in a city, that city will be uninhabitable for many years afterwards, but that is not karma, it is cause and effect.

Hopefully I am articulating myself well enough for you to understand what I mean. Also, thanks for actually listening instead of jumping down my throat. I can really respect that kind of quality within someone. That shows you are trying to understand and I really appreciate that.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I've been a good person my entire life, I follow what Jesus taught to a tee. I love everyone as I love myself and I treat others as I would want to be treated. I have never been in a fight and have never intentionally hurt anyone or swindled anyone for my own benefit. I'm as truthful a person as you will ever find, I never lie unless I believe it is a necessary one in order to avoid hurting someone else. I have never killed any creature intentionally or for sport. I've never even stepped on an ant purposely. I believe I have perfect morality in the fact that I follow what Jesus taught, I grew up learning of the lessons he taught and believed the story around Jesus, the death and resurrection. I know these lessons and modeled my life around what he taught.

The only difference between me now and me while I was Christian is that I do not believe Jesus died on the cross or was resurrected three days later. I do not believe he walked on water or turned water into wine with a wave of a hand.

So tell me, why should I deserve to burn for eternity when I strive to emulate what Jesus was, a kind and loving person who holds no grudges and doesn't judge others based on their personal beliefs/opinions?

I'd like a better reason than 'because you don't believe in Jesus' please.

Thanks.

edit on 15-8-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-8-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

I don't think you'll go to hell for that and I am a Christian. Billions of other people don't think so either. I guess the question you need to ask yourself is, do you believe absolutely in the exact text of the Bible as it stands today, and/or certain people's interpretation of it, and that is why you think you would go to hell, or is it because a small minority of Earth's population believes you would go to hell?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

So me emulating exactly what Jesus taught

I never lie unless I believe it is a necessary one

Matthew 19:18

English Standard Version (ESV)

18 He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,

you have lied in your life, whether you think it was for a good reason or no you have committed a sin in Gods eyes. Jesus never lied, because he is God in the flesh, and God cannot be with sin. If you do not give your life to Jesus, you do not have a blood covenant with him, so he cannot save you from sin. I'm sorry but its cut and dry in the bible, if you don't give your life to Jesus you go to hell.

Originally posted by Jobeycool

Originally posted by benrl

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by benrl

 

So that's the only answer you can give? So me emulating exactly what Jesus taught earns me the prize of eternal suffering and pain?

Is Jesus in hell right now?

Murgatroid covered this, read his post, it states what needs to be done According to the Bible.

Deserving has nothing to it, you don't earn salvation according to Christianity.

Exactly it man..No brownie points and earning scores to get to Christ.

Except that people from authors to "editors", translators, priesthoods, and common folk have totally misunderstood the Bible from the beginning. Even those parts which seem so clear to those who don't truly understand are often not what they seem to be.

Edit to add: I don't necessarily mean anyone here on ATS, but there are actually people who think they aren't going to hell simply because they declare themselves "born again" - while living very un-Christianlike lives (for example, the people who hate gays, or fear Muslims.) the fact is, regardless of their declarations of being Christians, they simply are not. Their pact with Christ is false. Now yours (OP), on the other hand - He is in you! Whether you feel like you believe in the death and resurrection anymore or not, you let the spirit of Jesus in, and kept it, despite what you now believe / don't believe about the surface story.

Now, that is just my opinion, as is their opinion, but I believe I have a much stronger and deeper understanding of the Bible than the "cuz I said I'm a Christian that makes it so regardless of my behavior" crowd.

reply to post by dogstar23

I don't think you'll go to hell

Heres the problem with new aged Christianity

I don't think

IT DOSEN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK, it matters what the bible says, you can't pick and choose from the bible, if the bible has one falsehood then its just a pile of crap and were all just waisting our time. We are all born of sin and if you don't except Jesus then you go to hell, pure and simple. Yes that even means if a new born baby dies it goes to hell, not because god is an A-hole, but because Adam and Eve screwed up and f'd it all up for the rest of us, if you want to be mad at someone get pissed at them, not God he has nothing to do with it.

Matthew 7:21 – 23

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

reply to post by dogstar23


I know I'm not going to a place where I'll suffer for eternity, I don't believe in that place. All I was doing was asking if a place like that did exist, why I should deserve to go there.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


It sounds like you want someone to convince you that everything is okay. The problem is you know the truth and are denying it. Why?