Why should I go to hell?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I respect your opinion, but I will have to disagree with you here. The Garden of Eden is not a literal fact story, it is only a metaphor for what Earth was before evolution came in and gave man the ability to be self-aware, the ability to do discern between good and evil.

Adam was not a real person, Eve was not a real person, they are only metaphors for the human race at the time of this epiphany of self-awareness. The fruit is self-awareness, which is why they cover themselves after eating the fruit.

God is nature, the serpent is us. Nature didn't want them to gain self-awareness because self-awareness brings about the destruction of nature and the manipulation of everything that is good. Our instinct is what told us to become self-aware, not a talking snake.

Once we turned self-aware that resulted in some having the 'me over everyone else' mentality. There was no 'me' before 'self'-awareness. Self-awareness almost always leads some to want to gain power over others, and in order for them to gain that power they must take advantage of others and deceive them. They have to step on them to reach the top.

My point is, Adam was not a real person, so to say Jesus was someone who never existed doesn't make sense in my opinion.

Whether real or not... Its a story that comes FULL CIRCLE.

You are missing the BIGGER PICTURE... But thats ok. If you cannot see it, you just dont. Its ok. :-)

Perception is different, I understand.

Jesus in Gethsemane was filled with agony and sorrow and before he left his body he said, " Its finished". He knew the Universal law had to be reconciled....

Take with that what you may,it makes sense to me.

We (adam/jesus) in the garden started out as heavenly FLESH and spirit. Atonement was had.

Our blood ( flesh) became corrupted and from there we were not one with God but separated. Our spirit was still with God but our Earthly flesh was now flesh of the Earth.

The self awareness you speak of in my opinion DID take hold where it became all about ME and not WE. That was a part of the fall.

Adam is a real person/ persons. He is MAN as a whole. The first and last man, The King of Kings, and he is even the Prince of Peace!

Im real, you are real, the first man, Adam was real ( obvioisly there was a first living man on earth) and Jesus was real.

Jesus lived many lives and he reached the atonement for man!!! We follow the way he laid before us ( morally selfless) and we too will have atonement.

Now we are able to go back to the garden, in full circle, and have PEACE.

Jesus wasn't about Karma.... I am still trying to figure what your point is. first you ask why you are going to hell now you go off on this tangent? what am i missing?? what are you trying to get to ? edit on 17-8-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)

reply to post by votan


Ha! You must not know what a " tangent" is either.

Depending on your mind set or definition of Karma, its debatable. Im willing...

Jesus was about reaping what you sow and if you have a different opinion ( as I see you do) would you like for me to insult you as you did me? I can if thats how you would prefer this dialogue to go.

reply to post by MamaJ


I can totally understand where you're coming from, it's just I don't 100% agree, it's at about 95% right now.

The whole point of Jesus coming was because we could not do it on our own

reply to post by votan


Thats right, because there was a KARMIC DEBT to be paid that ONLY HE could rectify!! There is that word again.... KARMA!

Originally posted by votan
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

Because in order to receive the forgiveness of sins you need to accept Christ.......You are born of a sinful nature. Your parents cannot make that decision for you, you have to make it for yourself.

if you really want to know all this find a lutheran church and find a confirmation class. All these questions you have will be answered and you will have a more knowledgable person who could shoot off exactly where in the Bible how it works.

edit on 17-8-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)

Thats absurd!

Christhood is attainable through his pure blood he shed for all of us. There is no way everyone who does not accept Jesus is beneath you and not " saved". Thats your ego talking sister.... Let it go!

Knowledge? Who needs it? Hows it working out for US? Ha!

We have LIFE now and PEACE is knocking on the door as there will be no room in this world thats coming for a division of anykind! Thank God! Also, no need for Lutheran dogma to say there way is the only way... Again....

ABSURD!

first you ask why you are going to hell

reply to post by votan


When or where did I say this? Lol Lawd!

What are you talking about... Did you miss something?

You must have missed taken.... Mistaken! Dont assume, back it up and deny ignorance. :-)

Because salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I can totally understand where you're coming from, it's just I don't 100% agree, it's at about 95% right now.

Well, Im just glad you can see the picture.... :-) even if its not exactly what I see, its humbling to know that WE are all in this together( human). When the world shakes we will not see a difference and it will bring us to our knees unified. Once we make the circle the human on Earth restarts and has peace forever and ever. Its my dream anyway. Lol

In the beginning of this thread, I felt sorrow for you because I was once right where you are.

Hell is a place people send you to daily with their words, actions, and judgements. Its sad that there are others that see them self so much higher than you and think their way is the way to everlasting life.... And you cant have none.

I dont want anyone of us to feel such despair and neither do the teachers of love that came before us because they surely did not see such a thing. They saw equality!

You said yourself that YOU believe that your are a good person, what you need to do is read the word to answer any question you have.

The word says that all our righteousness is as filthy rags to God.

Timothy
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


So you have to ask yourself are you guilty of any of those things. Because if you are it says

Romans 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;


Jesus is the way.

Originally posted by aardvark888
Because salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works.

If one has faith then they will also have works. It's kind of a package deal. It's a strawman argument to suggest that there are Christian groups out there who claim that one will be saved through works alone. Nobody believes that, to my knowledge. I've often found that people who quote Ephesians 2:8-9 often forget about verse 10.

Ephesians 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

reply to post by MamaJ


No need to feel sorrow, I know exactly where I stand and I know I will have everlasting life through reincarnation. No matter what you believe whether it be god or no god, we will all be born again after this life, except some will be on the karmic wheel of happiness and some on the karmic wheel of despair. It all depends on how you act in this life that determines which you will be on.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Agoyahtah

 

I personally do not believe he said that. Him teaching to love others as you love yourself is NOT a message of division and conflict, it is a message of unity and peace. If he wanted to cause division then he never would have said those things about love.

Division causes hate not love. Those verses completely contradict everything else he taught which leads me to believe it was added in later.

edit on 17-8-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

There's no contradiction. The Love Jesus taught was "spiritual love." But the war and division he prophesied was material, it's a war against the flesh. The lovers of the flesh are at war with the lovers of the spirit. Jesus was not "of this world",

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

KJV John 18:36

So, Jesus is really not too concerned about what happens in the physical world, except that only when things are difficult here, do people turn to God, and consider the spiritual side of things. Hence, it is necessary that there be strife in the world of men, so that they might want to leave for the world of the spirit.

Remember, the body of flesh is a body of sin. The object is to get rid of that flesh. That flesh requires man to kill and eat the flesh of other living things, all those cows, and chickens, and pigs, and fish, etc..slaughtered every day to sustain man's flesh. But, in Heaven, there's no flesh, so no slaughter required to sustain existence there.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
No need to feel sorrow, I know exactly where I stand and I know I will have everlasting life through reincarnation. No matter what you believe whether it be god or no god, we will all be born again after this life, except some will be on the karmic wheel of happiness and some on the karmic wheel of despair. It all depends on how you act in this life that determines which you will be on.

Reincarnation is a HUGE lie, there is a massive amount of evidence to support this as well...

Reincarnation -- Satan's Second-Biggest Lie

"Why would Satan bother coming up with a big lie about reincarnation? What's the point?"

Mankind has an innate desire to commune with God. It is in our nature, because God put it there. Satan will use any means available to lead people away from God. He doesn't have to get people to believe there is no god, he simply has to get them to not believe in the Christian God. A simple way for him to do this is with counterfeit religious experiences such as "reincarnation past-lives."

"Is there any evidence that reincarnation is true?"

There IS false evidence that reincarnation is true.

Huh? False evidence of truth? What does that mean?

Suppose you are on a jury trying Smith for burglary, and Smith did commit the burglary. Smith gets on the witness stand and lies—he says he was with his girlfriend all day. Smith has presented evidence. It is false evidence, but it still is evidence.

But what if you believe Smith? You think you reached the correct decision, but it's still false evidence. You leave secure in the knowledge that Smith didn't and could not possibly have committed the burglary—after all, you have evidence. But your decision is based on false evidence.

Reincarnation -- Satan's Second-Biggest Lie

Reincarnation Is A Lie
New Age beliefs are deceptions

reply to post by Murgatroid


How do you know? The bible says nothing about reincarnation being a lie. In fact, what Jesus says about being born again is a direct reference to reincarnation, it's just you refuse to see it.

Can you answer my previous question? How do you know the bible isn't a work of Satan? He does masquerade as an angel of light according to the bible.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Ignorance in its most pure form.

It says that that your reborn in the spirit, not in a physical body.

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Matthew 12:25
And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

You need to watch this video,

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I'm thoroughly confused why you would ask if the Bible was a work of Satan.. Isn't that questioning your own beliefs? Since you claim to follow Jesus' teachings.. Which is in the Bible

reply to post by Jinxy


Yet it shouldn't have been put in with the old testament. And I'm not the only Christian who thinks so. For the old testament has a lot of Saturn squares in it.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
How do you know? The bible says nothing about reincarnation being a lie.

"What does the Bible have to say about reincarnation?"

The Bible does not expressly talk about "reincarnation." However, it makes it clear that "you only go around once in life."

Hebrews 9:27-28 [27] Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, [28] so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

LINK

reply to post by Unity_99


Can you elaborate a little bit? You don't believe the OT and NT should be in the same book? If so, why? They are both the word of the one true God, the old covenant and the new.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Atheism falls in because your current position fundamentally reflects the general consensus in the atheists. You speak of good advice, but what you really are doesn't change where your standing and how your interpreting this.

On top of that, you fail to see where the dividing line is (which is what your looking for in the first place) and I've answered it in a simple manner:

Christians =/= Atheists (non-Christian regardless of what 'religion' your in)

There's your division. You either want to be with God or not.
If you were really making observations, you would of immediately caught the detail that Jesus came as a way to get people connected to God, peace and harmony is secondary as all of those virtues won't connect you to God. The book of Romans should cover that quite nicely (especially if you understand who the original audience was, what it was written for, and why it was written. The Bible is an accumulation of writings, not a simplified bullet point book of what Word of God is)

Thats what separates those who go and those who don't, and Christ is bridge that allows the connection to happen.

You say

Love =/= division

Yet you fail to accept the inherent fact that love is a form of discrimination. The other half of the coin is what some would call the 'unloved' obviously but many people seem to be oblivious to the existence of the other half.

Furthermore, love is only fulfilled when it's MUTUAL. People going to hell is a result of them not choosing to receive God's love, hence the separation. The contextual point of John 3 is just that.

You wouldn't be making the same old arguments if you actually took the time to read some of what I posted. Your still making the same fundamental approaches and I fail to see where your making any attempt to understand myself or others/ Remember, you were the one asking the questions.

I was expecting for this discussion to expand much further into the details but I don't believe your here looking for answers. If you want to know the truth, challenge God himself and dare Him to show you the way. I'm not sure what he would do, but if you truly are looking (and only you can judge what your really doing) He will give you an answer in a way that you can understand. I guarantee that.