Why should I go to hell?

reply to post by InTheLight


I love myself unconditionally, as do I with my family and friends and anyone else on this Earth. Unfortunately, not everyone can say that. I also receive unconditional love from family and friends. I have found god and I have never had to ask 'him' for 'his' love because 'he' gave it to me freely.

reply to post by ahnggk


I do love my neighbors as I love myself. I have love for every single person on this planet, even those who are corrupt. If that's not good enough then I don't know what is.

I do not deny Jesus lived, I do believe he was god, just as everyone who has ever lived was and is. I deny neither because I accept both, the only difference is I accept both in a different way than you.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Of course, but why are you omitting God's love?

reply to post by InTheLight


I'm not, I'm saying I already have gods love through my family and friends. Everyone has gods love by virtue of family and friends, no matter what religion they ascribe to or how corrupt they are.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
So tell me, why should I deserve to burn for eternity when I strive to emulate what Jesus was, a kind and loving person who holds no grudges and doesn't judge others based on their personal beliefs/opinions?

Isaiah tells us that "all our righteousness is as filthy rags".
Being good doesn't mean a thing. It's not about being good. Being good should be a RESULT of committing your life to Christ, not the goal.

The problem, as Scripture puts it, is simple: "your sins have separated you from God."

It's not about being good. It's not about living a life that is better than the person next to you, it's not even about trying to live like Jesus did. It's about the fact that there is a fundamental disconnect between man and God that goes much deeper than who we are or what we do. It extends to WHAT we are. Our very nature and being has been intrinsically damaged by sin... and God cannot have sin in His presence. Not only would it compromise who He is, but it would literally destroy sinful man to be in the presence of a Holy God. This is why the Scripture says "no man can see God and live" - because in our sinful form, that's utterly correct.

The solution, as presented in Scripture, is not the LIFE of Christ, but the DEATH of Christ. Paul, when he went to the city of Corinth, resolved himself to "preach nothing but Christ, and Him crucified." He elsewhere defines the gospel itself as "Christ, who died, was buried, and was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures".

Trying to live a good life, and get to heaven that way, is like going to a mechanic when your car has broken down, and saying "can't you just repaint it?".

If the mechanic does what you've asked, sure, you might look good on the outside, but the actual problem hasn't been solved.

Christ died to solve that fundemental problem: "your sins have separated you from God." He took that sin, bore it in His own flesh, and died with it, and in it, on the cross. More importantly, He, being both man and God, did what no man alone could do, in that the punishment for sin (eternal separation from God) could never be paid by finite man. Only an eternal God could pay the cost of eternal death.

I hope that makes some kind of sense for you. I really do. Living a good life is an amazing thing; an admirable thing. But ultimately, being good... even going to church every week, those things don't define the Christian.

A friend of mine once said "going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than going to McDonalds makes you a cheeseburger"... and he's right.... because it's simply not about that.

God has provided only one way to solve the inherent problem that mankind faces. That way is Christ. Only in becoming one with Christ, in His life, His death, and His resurrection, can we, like Christ (and more importantly, through Christ), overcome the death that reigns in all of us.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
So you don't trust anything in this world? You don't love anything in this world? You don't work toward anything in this world? You don't take joy from anything in this world?

Sorry to say, but what a sad existence you must live without joy, love, and trust. If I am to live in self-loathing in order to receive love from god, I do not want his love.

God's love is the best thing I ever had!

God gave me comfort and joy while I slept in the street. God made my tent a palace. God was there with me when things came crashing down. God provided comfort and joy even when things got too life threatening even in the midst of my enemies. God shown beauty when things got really ugly.

To find joy, peace, love, and beauty in the midst of adversity, this is the best things you can ever have! Only God can give you this.

I'm not quoting from scriptures anymore, these are my experiences in my walk with God.

This is really what 'born again' is to mean. You are no longer the same creature. You begin to hate the things you formerly loved. You begin to love the things you formerly hated. You are no longer satisfied by the same food, you would begin to look for another food.

All the creations of man is too meaningless now, it doesn't hold any value anymore because you have found the treasure that priceless and would be with you come high or low, that would never be destroyed, never give up and will be with you and love you for eternity.

If God can be compared to a vehicle, He would be a 4x4 or 8x8 All-Terrain vehicle. You won't appreciate these vehicles in city driving just as God, it's hard to see God for what He really is when things are good, you are enjoying your life in the world, etc. You would only appreciate and some serious fun out of these vehicles when you're out there, going off-road, to places where no vehicles dare go. Just as God.

If you have God, just like a 4x4, things change, you would long to go where nobody goes to reach to the need. It will now be your desire to give your life up for others.

You know what makes poverty so difficult?? It's the desire to get some from this world. Jesus came to a poor village. He preached that the truth will set you free. Indeed it will.

This is not difficult, it's actually fun. I take much joy from these hardships. What only makes following Jesus difficult is you still crave and enjoy the things of this world.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I do love my neighbors as I love myself. I have love for every single person on this planet, even those who are corrupt. If that's not good enough then I don't know what is.

Love is not just emotion or in proclaiming, more importantly it's also in the works. Love without works is just pity.

It you are investing most of you plans, resources and effort to help those who are desperately poor in other parts of the world, and suffering then you are doing it right

reply to post by Awen24


That's the whole point of religion in general, to disconnect us from god on a mental level. It seems as though you have fallen for the trap. You are not disconnected from god, 'he' is always with you, no matter who you are or what you believe.

Deuteronomy 31:5-6
Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you.

Hebrews 13:5
Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, 'Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.'

Psalm 73:23-24
Yet I am always with you; you hold me by my right hand. You guide me with your counsel,
and afterward you will take me into glory.

Matthew 28:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

Psalm 41:12
In my integrity you uphold me and set me in your presence forever.

Psalm 139:7-12
Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast.

How can we be disconnected from god if he is always with us no matter where we go?

reply to post by ahnggk


With the advent of money, all of the things you listed have become all but impossible. Money is the thing holding this world back from being heaven. It is all that is evil, it is the root of all evil.

If I was able to do the things you listed, I'd be the first in line, but money is what's holding me from doing them.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
With the advent of money, all of the things you listed have become all but impossible. Money is the thing holding this world back from being heaven. It is all that is evil, it is the root of all evil.

If I was able to do the things you listed, I'd be the first in line, but money is what's holding me from doing them.

Well, there's always hope!

Money is not required but faith. With God all things are possible. Have a heart after God's, seek Him with everything you got and He will open doors for you

To mainstream Christians: I'm sorry, I'm not talking about money, job opportunities, relationships, etc here

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Well.... I for one cannot say whether or not you deserve he'll or not. It is my personal understanding of the bibles teachings that essentially bring me to a couple possible conclusions. First, why must you be born again, or believe in Jesus... Because no matter what our righteousness is... We fall short of the Glory of God. We all sin, we have all turned astray to our own ways, we have all rebelled against God weather we realize it or not. Ok. So why does one need to believe in Jesus. He's the only way to be put in right relationship with the Father and Creator of all. You have to understand that because we couldn't meet, and could never meet the fathers standard, he made a way for us via Jesus. You can try all you want to be "good" but it will never meet the standard that God requires. What is that standard.... It is perfect obedience, not good works. So I hope this helps give you a little more understanding.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


You are right in that he is always with you. I do think though that being able to have a relationship, and walk/talk/ and have him use you to do the miraculous is something completly different than him always being with you.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


So you speak for all Christians?

reply to post by zonetripper2065


I said that opinion was based on my own experiences in that same exact post. An opinion is not fact and I never stated that it was fact, hence me calling it an opinion.

The idea of an eternal hellfire is heretical and not taught in Scripture. I've written extensively on this and would be happy to show anyone my essays. It's simply not supported in the text nor is it consistent with the character of God as revealed in Scripture.

That being said, here is your answer:

Say Scripture IS true and Christ is who He says He is, consider the following:

You reject God as He has revealed Himself in Scripture; God has two choices:

Bind you to Himself for all eternity AGAINST your will

- or -

Honor your free will by giving you the choice of ceasing to exist.

How is the fault with God? You rejected Him, you want nothing to do with Him ... would you rather He force you to spend an eternity with Him or simply end your existence?

Which is it?

reply to post by followtheevidence


I do believe in god, just not the mainstream version of god.

I do believe in the god of the bible, only I take what it says in a different context than most. If you really dig down deep and actually study the scripture without preconceptions of what you think god is and you look deeper than just the surface, you will come to see that the god of the bible is nature.

The context in which people read scripture is based solely on what the 'in' thing is, or what your pastor tells you it means in my opinion. The message has been perverted contextually over the centuries to the point that a lot of Christians can't even recognize its true meaning, even though it's right there in front of their faces.

How did I come to the conclusion that the biblical god is nature? I dug down and found that hidden meaning myself without others interfering with their own opinions. Honestly, I think I came to this conclusion because I was Christian at one point.

I totally agree that eternal hellfire is mentioned nowhere in the bible, people just took what it was saying completely out of context. Was it in order to push an agenda? I think so, though many will not agree.

Well I believe in Christ and don't believe in any of these Christian arguments, and that if something exclusive and wrong, (and yes to say you must believe in someone to be worthy of going home is wrong, plain and simple), but to say that Christ came to spring the traps here, to open the cage, to show their laws and karma were the bunk they are and to demonstrate LOVE and Selflessness and that Mercy, Love and Virtues is what exists, then that means anyone, whether they believe in Christ or not, who is living with Love is walking with Christ anyway. And the concept of a lamb or sacrifice and blood need to be deeply thought on for as a Christian don't accept that, and know perfectly well that Goodness never asked for animal sacrifices in the old testament.

So as a Christian I know he was murdered (though he could have been drugged and escaped to the Himalayas as some suggest), but that they even could murder him sprang every trap for KARMA would say, they could not put an innocent man to death.

The door is open, raise your Lvoe.

And any other interpretation does not interest me. And I do believe in Christ, real or metaphor. And thus since there is no reason to not see him as real, for he is real even if metaphor, I believe he was real, here, with us, immanuel, showing the way back home, which is Love, not a specific belief.

And yes there is a right and wrong. And it is wrong to say things that is written or expressed by a rabbi or priest that would suggest a wrongful action from Goodness. Just because its written doesnt make it so. Your own heart tells you what is Love and what is not Love and there are many dark squares written, your Love chooses the Light shards.

Not only that, he came that all would be saved. All, the door is open.

To me the symbol of the cross is the symbol of selflessness and giving your all for others. Its about Love, and that he did not lower his frequency or walk away from what was right and loving, no matter what they could bring.
Also there may be this in his death about the cross. For as He is one with Father/Mother and Family, the Source and Creator, our spiritual Dad/Mom and Family. There is a oneness. That while we may stumble and fall while attempting to shine our lights, and his path may be beyond what it feels humans can accomplish, I feel that He has conquered the whole way for us. That as we are have oneness and the Spirit of Love uniting us, that One has stood for the many, and the many keep trying to follow the example of this One, but His example is perfect even when ours may seem less so, for our own memory and connection is far less than His, but he has poured His Grace on all of us, through His pure connection, and pure example and thus we are uplifted.

I still don't think this has to do with a name however, or rather it varies from person to person and only Family knows who is trying and for what reason they see in one or another. You can't tell by outer appearances and membership within a religion, is what I mean.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1you will come to see that the god of the bible is nature.

There are indeed many things referencing God and Nature. But often these are testaments to God's great love for all his creations. That how you treat his creations, the very poor people, nature, animals, etc, you do to Him. You hurt or help to hurt God's creations, you hurt Him too.

- Preach the Gospel to all creations/creatures
- God hates all works of man which apparently causes much suffering, death, and destruction to his creations.
- What you do to the least of your brethren, desperately poor people, suffering animals, nature, you do to God
- Jesus often uses animals, or plants to explain his point. Show he loves/obsessed with God's creations so much. If you love something, you'll talk about it so often.
- Had Jesus not arrived, we would still be sacrificing animals.

The God whom the Israelites sacrificed animals is not the same God, the Father of Jesus.

But no, God is not nature, at least he is not even Earth as even the Earth cries out to God for all of man's corruption.

Are all the strange sounds were hearing is due to the Earth crying out to God?? We are in big trouble then.

God is probably more accurately described in the Book of Enoch. Anyone who is serious about the truth should do some serious research. The truth is revealed through the Holy Spirit, not through a book.

The context in which people read scripture is based solely on what the 'in' thing is, or what your pastor tells you it means in my opinion. The message has been perverted contextually over the centuries to the point that a lot of Christians can't even recognize its true meaning, even though it's right there in front of their faces.

Yes, in fact there's a warning:

1 John 2:26-27
"26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him."

This requires the Holy Spirit to guide you. Jesus never promised a book or even a pastor but a Spirit which will guide you to all the truths. The Bible is only one place to find the truth. You need the Spirit to guide you because many of the teachings there will actually contradict the teachings of Jesus.

Love God and what He loves, hate what He hates - I've said and enumerated these at the top of my post and you'll get the Love of God and the Holy Spirit.

OP I am curious why you do not believe Christ performed miracles?

Now--having asked that--I will state MY personal reasons why I believe it WAS possible to perform miracles.Christ was fully evolved and had a perfect understanding of ALL things in the universe and their workings.Jesus is an example for us to live by,Jesus is LOVE IN ACTION.All the miracles Christ performed were an act of LOVE.Contrary to what some folks believe,God/Christ and science and the Universal Laws of the Universe are not at odds.
Christ had the mysteries of the Universe revealed to him and that was part of His divinity.Christ understood all the laws of quantum mechanics and physics and therefore was able to act in concert and harmony with these laws and perform the miraculous---He was able to manipulate physical matter in such a way that he could change/effect/transform them

This is not really a hard concept to embrace when you look at all the things WE as humans have achieved,some things that just a century ago would be considered "miraculous" to others and yet to US in THIS day and age and how technologically advanced we are,tend to take for granted certain things every day that people only a century ago would be in utter AWE of.Christ also awakened the power to perform miracles to his disciples that they may also demonstrate love towards others and be living examples of God's love,mercy and power.
I myself have personally witnessed and/or experienced quite a few miracles and I am here to tell you that if "mere mortals" can perform such,why would Christ not be able to?

I fully believe that Christ was crucified,died a PHYSICAL death,and was then resurrected.In this day and age,with medical science being able to bring us back from literal death,there is NO DOUBT in my mind,heart and Soul that Christ was resurrected.NOT because the bible or some empty dogma says so,but because I have personally witnessed and experienced certain things.

Jesus came here to ransom us from death that we may live and dwell and have full communion and fellowship with our Creator.To me--"Hell" is not necessarily a place one goes or where one burns.It is a place we set outside of true communion with God as it was meant to be from the beginning.Jesus told us to be of good cheer--for He has OVERCOME the world.He literally conquered physical death so that we may be ransomed from sin and share spiritually the full love of our Creator because we were never meant to be separated from that love or that spiritual bond of love and connectedness.
God made us in His own image and gave us free will,as all God's creations have free will,including Lucifer.He made the CHOICE to usurp God's throne and the angels that also had free will followed with him.We were/are also given that choice.
When one lives gospel love--there is no need to preach sin.