The Crucifixion: A Medical Perspective

reply to post by the2ofusr1


Sure, its possible, but given the rest of the information we have, and using some critical thinking and logic, one has to assume that the spear didn't pierce the heart.

EDIT: We don't really know how high Jesus was hung. If, in fact, he was nailed to a tree, through a crossbeam, I wouldn't think he would be very high. If he was nailed to a tall pole, did they climb a ladder, with him on their back, to get up that high? Did Jesus have to assist them in positioning him high up? Did he help out in his own crucifixion?

I think that its' logical to think that Jesus wasn't more that a couple of feet above the ground.

I find it strange that there can be so many different explanations about Jesus ...I read the gospels for myself without other people telling me what it said and what it didn't say and to hear the amount of theories cast around that deviate from the standard Christian understanding is incredible ....Why don't the bunch of you deviants get together and at least come up with your own unified creed that you could all agree on . at least you could then say see Christians we at least agree what really happened ...I think what it is ,is that when man fails to believe what God says he will believe anything .... Its quite easy you know to believe or not but it must be such a challenge to come up with the myriad of other theory's ..I am some glad I can share the truth with my brothers in Christ and am some glad I don't need to be confused by the lot of such a legion .....Well brothers and sisters it really seems that the end is for all the legions are coming to a close ..There will be no granting to go into a heard of swine this time around ....peace

reply to post by windword


I am not so sure it would matter one way or another ..I can or could believe that it did or didn't and it wouldnt change my understanding that when He was taken down that He was dead and that they put him in a toomb and that He arose from the dead ...If you miss that part of the narritive then you are likley to miss many more small details .

Originally posted by the2ofusr1
reply to post by windword

 

I am not so sure it would matter one way or another ..I can or could believe that it did or didn't and it wouldnt change my understanding that when He was taken down that He was dead and that they put him in a toomb and that He arose from the dead ...If you miss that part of the narritive then you are likley to miss many more small details .

I disagree. Fitting Jesus into the "tragic hero" role, so common in pagan, Roman, Greek and Celtic mythology, detracts from the message that Jesus taught.

Fixating on his death, turning him into another god, similar to Osirus/Dionysus and others, claiming he died for the sins of the world, is the lie that distracts and enslaves the masses.

Focusing on his death and bestowing you salvation on a human blood sacrifice, not on the "way" that Jesus was teaching, is an evil deception and distraction.

reply to post by windword
When you say masses I have to wonder if you may be missing the masses of Muslims ,or the masses of atheists ,or the masses of Buddhist ,of the masses of pagans ,or the masses of take your pick of the ,other than Christian masses..Do you follow a small group of the ones with the Truth or one of the other masses ?

reply to post by the2ofusr1


Christian influence has affected all those groups, and more, in a negative way.

The church itself, RCC, has a history of suppressing science, astronomy, medicine. Protestants have wiped out entire populations of indigenous people around the globe, in the name of supremacy over wicked heathens.

The Protestant Church of England had no regard for Hindi or Muslims during the 1900's. The RCC turned it's back of the Jews during the Holocaust.

The Bottom Line for this entire thread is nothing but that of one explanation, but one that would be of the death for Jesus and he would not be seen later. There are no miracles, as if the heart stops, brain death will happen.

Irrational people make up the game of Jesus fully died with Brain Death, then the make believe god fixed it.

Other explanations that are much more plausible exist:

1. He survived and the clear liquid was from the blisters on the skin due to whipping and the blood because he was alive.

2. He survived and the clear liquid came from a slight diaphram puncture and blood because he was alive.


There is no proof that Jesus died, and there is lots more proof he survived and never died due to the process.


Unless, you like make believe of the old Pagan ways----which the world rejects on face value as irrational and illogical nonsense.

The Bottom Line for most of the world is the Christians base is that of a lie.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


Yep. A lie devised solely to corrupt the teachings and annul the value of the life of the teacher and his followers. A lie laced with smidgens of truth, for the pure in heart to be led astray. A lie to arm soldiers with weapons of degradation, abomination and supremacy in order to conquer the world.

reply to post by windword
Yes you are correct in some of what you are asserting ...The fact that the RCC Jesuit order worked both sides of Christianity shows up in a lot of the distortions we see within the faith ..Don't forget that Paul himself said it was going to happen and knowing that it had and still does should give one pause to reflect on what is the real definitions of words and phrases within the body of scripture ...If one really wanted to draw lines to this distortion you would have to look no further than the law and laws of society ...The very center of that craft originates from RCC and the City of London probably controlled by the Jesuits ...Look up legal definitions for person ,or human,.. Now when you put the law as the highest authority of the land and it is distorted to the extent that it is it becomes amazing that we can even communicate with one another ....Take the word Church ....no go out and ask the first 100 people to point out Church ...they will point to a building ...the Church is a spiritual body,or a spiritual building ....but to try and communicate even the Christians that know this have to use the distorted meaning ...and like the bible says a little bit of misunderstanding will probably lead to a little more and so on ...and then you have people who are not part of the faith that attack the faith ,not to clarify ,but to distort and destroy ...At least it remains consistent with history that shows that the Christians God was killed and the followers were killed and are still being killed ....and for what ? because they gather together to sing praises to someone they believe to be God and to bind themselves to not steal ,lie,kill,rape,..Oh I know there are some supposed christians that don't follow the tenants because they are not real ...But it is not only Christianity that suffers the brunt of false people ...Washington is full of them ,most police forces have them ..the army the navy pick what ever craft you want and you will find the true and the false .....peace

reply to post by the2ofusr1


Religion, all religions, are destine to be used at pawns by TPTB to distract an suppress people. You are correct that the church shouldn't be a building, but a body of like minded people searching for their purpose and spiritual peace and enlightenment, encouraging and reinforcing each other. It is there to be taken, free and clear, but that's the secret truth TPTB want to make sure you don't find.

reply to post by windword
I will grant you that Christian distortions negatively influences groups ..can you find any positive works by any Christians? and if you can ,can you maybe imagine that maybe there is such a thing as a true Christian? You see we True Christians see false Christians every week ..we hear false Christians teaching from the pulpits and fleecing some real and some false ones as well ...You know that to become a Christian is not a complicated thing ....Just believe that Jesus died was buried and rose from the grave and you have eternal life ....don't believe and you will not have eternal life ...its pretty simple ..that's all you need to be a true believer ...Now if you say you do but deep down inside you don't then you are a false believer ...see how simple God separates the true from the false ..

reply to post by windword
Yes you are correct ...there are some very smart corrupt people doing things that ought not to be done ...Its not the good guys you need to contend with but the evil lurking beneath the surface ...heck we true Christians have to deal with our own evil desires and spiritual wickedness that have a tendency to manifest within us .. I am a believer that if the church was to take on the house type church the problems would be much to contend with ....but these mega churches seem to be large money pits that first of all attract crooks looking to get a piece of the action ...make it small and no one is going to bother with penuts well say.

reply to post by the2ofusr1


I already have eternal life, thank you very much.

I'm sorry, but if you've been reading this thread, then you must know that I dont believe that Jesus died on the cross, therefore, he didn't die for my sins.

I can't force myself to believe something that is contrary to my god given common sense, critical thinking skill and logic. I don't think your god would respect me if I did.

I don't deny that Jesus was a great man and profound teacher. I deny that he is god. The Jews don't think Moses is god, Muslims don't say the Mohamed is god, Buddhist don't claim Buddha to be god, and Hindi refer to their gods as deities and avatars.

It's this idea that one must believe this lie, of human sacrifice, or their life is worthless and their soul is damned, is exactly what I object to and define as evil. It is, I believe, the opposite of what Jesus taught. The very people that Jesus rebuked, are the same people peddling this stuff.

reply to post by windword
Well my God gives all the choice to either believe or not ...Your god may tell you what not to believe but my God shows me what to believe. This thread is about the Christian God who Christians believe to have been Jesus ...give me a link to your god and I will go have a look at what he has to say and I will get back to you with either a question or maybe a comment about him ...

reply to post by the2ofusr1


No, this thread is about some Christian pathologist who did an autopsy on a 2000 year old subject without a body. The patient inquestion was seen, after a crucifixion event, up and about. For this doctor to diagnose death reveals him to be a quack. Any pathologist who makes a diagnosis without examining the patient is guilty of medical malpractice, little alone making a diagnosis of death on a subject that is eating and talking.

I believe in a spiritual hierarchy, but my god is boundless and without human emotion or judgement. My god is mathematical. My god's physical body is everything that is, was, will be and never was or will be. Sorry, I don't have a linky dink to that.

The OP contents that this doctors statement is proof that Jesus died on the cross. I say it isn't.

reply to post by windword
Well if you recall you made a statment that I replyed to and you went from didn't to could have ...The doctor was making the best medical description based on his training and what is recorded in the gospels ....Now if you can come up with a more profesional anyalis from another doctor using the same data give it ...Oh and no doubt that even multipal reports from diffrent doctors may vary ...this thread was not about weather Jesus died or not but that is what you were trying to get at ...and just what was your data that you used to make your assersions?

True Christians know the church is corrupt these days and doesn't represent Jesus, as it tells in Revelations.

True Christians tell Jesus is a Prophet, which is what he tells of himself, and we know humans can't be god.

True Christians don't follow fairy tales or need them. Realith and nature is our guide.

We also know when we see those, that the true followers of the Jesus story, would call the anti-Christ teachings.

Those that assign the pagan trinity to Jesus are the unHoly, the deceivers, the ones against Jesus.

We don't need faith to support the simple truths of Jesus, as all the true followers don't need miracles, don't need trumped up untruth or exaggerations, as it is all based on rational processes of Nature.


The True Christian's story is highly accepted around the world and doesn't violate common sense, and the bogus Christian's faked up faith tales are rejected and will mark the end of the UnHoly church labeled as heritics.

The world doesn't need the UnHoly Church. Not even a faked up Doctor story to respect Jesus, who survived the tree. True Christians even get to teach the old world's special medicines of Myrrh and Frankensense, which helps people use some of the same healing methods of Jesus for their own benefits. You don't get the real truth teachings from doctors that would seek to cover up the healing power of things like Myrrh.

But you do get the simple truths from the real Christian's that teach the fuller story of those times.

You learn about the real Jesus, and not the story of how to disenfranchise citizens with fake stories of god.


Real Christians see closing the anti-Christ Churches as a service to mankind and the protection of the US Natioal Security as a patriotic duty.

reply to post by windword


He was dying, but he was doing it slowly. He needed to be in the ground before dusk and dusk was approaching so they did a coup de grace on him so they could get him in the hole faster to keep from defiling the Passover.

reply to post by MagnumOpus

True Christians tell Jesus is a Prophet, which is what he tells of himself, and we know humans can't be god.

True christians know who their God is because he gives us that revelation. If you don't know who God is i'd say you got some soul searching to do.

Nice try but my Jesus is Yahweh thread dispels him being nothing but a prophet theory.

Originally posted by the2ofusr1
reply to post by windword

 

Well if you recall you made a statment that I replyed to and you went from didn't to could have ...

I said that it is possible that the guard was capable of trusting the spear through Jesus' heart. But since Jesus was up and about and eating, and claiming that he was NOT a spirit, tells me that the guard's action wasn't fatal.

The doctor was making the best medical description based on his training and what is recorded in the gospels

No, he didn't. I wasn't able to read the autopsy report, as it requires a subscription, but based on NuT's assertions, the doctor takes a lot of liberties and improvises the scripture.

....Now if you can come up with a more profesional anyalis from another doctor using the same data give it ...Oh and no doubt that even multipal reports from diffrent doctors may vary ...

ANY doctor that diagnosis death, when the patient is up and about and eating is a quack! Any doctor that does an autopsy without a body, is mal-practicing!

this thread was not about weather Jesus died or not but that is what you were trying to get at ...

The Crucifixion: A Medical Perspective. The title of the thread.

and just what was your data that you used to make your assersions?

I am not going to hash through every argument that was presented against the OP's assertion. If you want to know what data I used, read my posts, and the posts by other members who also disagree with the OP.

I would be happy to discuss legitimate arguments to my "data" with anyone.