Time to take the gun from the American public!

Originally posted by ComeFindMe

Originally posted by DIRTYDONKEY
Everyone should carry a gun some douch ain't gonna walk into a store and try shooting the place up if everyone around has a gun too!

But they do, that's the point.

I think what he means to say is that the odds of that happening are far less likely on any alternate thursday....and if you notice, usually when these 2 conditions are met, someone shoots back hence his point....

As a matter of fact, in Alaska this actually happened, and wouldn't ya know.....5 everyday people drew their weapon, and if the schmuck who was shootin didnt run, he woulda been laid out with lead poisoning.

reply to post by BooKrackers


I can see both sides of the issue having seen this debated on many occasions, with people raising very good points in favour of gun ownership in today's society.
However, I am still anti-gun and do believe a society shouldn't have to be armed to feel safe from either their own government, outside enemies or each other.

..As pressure piles up and people become more stressed, more people will snap..everyday citizens, law abiding..snapping, snapping with guns. If the US economy collaspes, along with severe natural disasters,
desperate people do irrational crazy things, but of course YOU will say YOU wouldnt, " they" will. And you would shoot those crazies, kill them. Because they would harm you and yours..but now you just shot a human being, and you, the average human being, thinks your going to be able to keep your cool, pull yourself together, just in time to kill another fellow american whose desperate just like you.
200million americans with guns, snapping. Good luck America, God bless.
"..and I saw the land covered in blood...." its alright "said my mom.." it was just a bad dream".

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
However, I am still anti-gun and do believe a society shouldn't have to be armed to feel safe from either their own government, outside enemies or each other.

Thankfully, like this opinion, society is an abstraction with no independent existence in reality.

Because forbidding things worked so well with Prohibition, and it works so well with drugs. Outlaw guns and the only people that have them will be outlaws.

Outlawing them will no more stop gun crime than outlawing drugs stops us from having crack heads. All it's going to do is give more people for the profits of the prison industry, and leave more people unable to defend themselves against violent criminals in a country where police forces are being rapidly decreased because of budget issues.

reply to post by JonoEnglish


I can agree to that aspect amigo, I respect you for your beliefs as i would love to see a world without violence. Only until the current paradigm changes we are merely animals playing civil. And its in our nature to harm each other.

Would it make you feel any better knowing that I have actually had to draw my weapon once to protect someone whom shared the same views as yours? He owns a gun now....and you cannot talk him out of it.

Violence begets violence, I hate violence....but Im not about to let someone roll over me when I don't have to let them. i would rather have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Originally posted by imherejusttoread

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
However, I am still anti-gun and do believe a society shouldn't have to be armed to feel safe from either their own government, outside enemies or each other.

Thankfully, like this opinion, society is an abstraction with no independent existence in reality.

Not really if you consider the societies that don't allow gun ownership.

You could say the whole freedom and liberty ideal is an abstraction when in reality freedoms are oppressed by laws.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Hi Wrabbit... yeah, that's all very fair and reasonable what you say there. I also take heart in your eloquent honesty in here too... your point around the repression of sexuality etc is worth note. I hadn't really even considered this in the cultural context I raised, but I think its a very valid point.

We don't have anywhere near the level of right-wing, fundamentalist zeal that permeates heavily throughout the States and it certainly doesn't have anywhere near the 'moulding effect' on our youths' development the likes it does over there... and being someone who has some very strong objections and criticisms of institutions of religion, no matter the denomination or faith, and the harm the cause right across the board in terms of human suffering, I saw immediately the enormity of what you were proposing. Frightening to be honest.

How the hell do you unravel that mess in a kid's mind once its been indoctrinated and poisoned in such a manner, let alone how to deal with the unnatural and immediate chaos it's created in a maturing generation of young Americans... young Americans for whom 'fixing' much of these f**k-ups we all read and discuss here on ATS, will be left squarely up them as future leaders. Oh dear... there's another thread! lol

Oh and don't be under illusion too, if I ever hear strange noises at night outside my house or in my garage, I too take more than just my torch! A bit hard to conceal a sawn-off shot gun down the old undies... well... maybe not! lol

Peace brother

If there was just ONE law abiding citizen carrying a gun at any of these incidences they could have stopped the killings.. So i say LET EVERYONE CARRY A WEAPON, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY LAW ENFORCEMENT CAN NOT PROVIDE SAFETY FOR EVRYONE IN THE PUBLIC .if they could none of these crimes would have been committed. And for all you gun control advocates, when they are dragging you and your family out of your homes to your final resting places in the fema camps, i will be watching through the scope of my semi auto laughing at you..

Originally posted by BooKrackers
reply to post by JonoEnglish

 

Would it make you feel any better knowing that I have actually had to draw my weapon once to protect someone whom shared the same views as yours? He owns a gun now....and you cannot talk him out of it.

Violence begets violence, I hate violence....but Im not about to let someone roll over me when I don't have to let them. i would rather have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Lol, it's funny how one experience can drastically change your view. To some the fear of something happening is enough to make that change, though we all are victims of fear mongering to some extent. People like to feel safe at the end of the day.

No, I don't think so. I don't believe in punishing the majority for the actions of a very few. There's also the constitutional argument, and I'll simply say this to those who are anti-gun: I don't want to hear you whining if some right you actually do care about is taken away. You can't pick and choose what parts of the Constitution are actually important. Either they all are, or none of them are.

From a practical standpoint, a ban won't accomplish anything anyway, except to turn otherwise law-abiding gun owners into criminals. There are enough illegal weapons in the country as it is that the true criminal element would still be able to get their hands on them with no problems whatsoever.

Originally posted by Yosemite Sam
reply to post by lacrimaererum

 

You can have mine. All you need to do is take it from me.

You moron.

Yes I am a moron. Good observational skills.

(Note how guns empower people. )

reply to post by JonoEnglish


Granted, although Ive been shot at before, can't say that i liked it much. Only I would feel much more comfortable knowing that I have that option for myself. After all your average neighborhood gun fight only lasts seconds. The police take minutes to get there. So yes, I feel better taking responsibility for my own safety....the law can go F*@k themselves cause they will show up when its all said and done. If Im still alive, Im sure the prospect of being charged with something is much better than being dead.

And as you point out, until it happnes to you, will you only then really care and understand the reality. You can fight for your life anyway you can. or you can passivily let someone else control when your life is over.

Me? not a chance if I can help it....in the armed senerio, i will choose when i exit this earth, and God willing I'll take a few of them with me.

reply to post by lacrimaererum


You are entitled to your belief sir, only to keep your views valid, don't sink to the level of others in spite. And don't group all of us under the prided mentality.

By doing so, I lose respect for your position, and you undoubtedly lose respect for mine.

Respect given is respect earned, and while i don't agree with all of the replies here, I give you the benefit of an open mind in regards to your opinion.

In the end you see what you want to see regardless of any truth spoken here. And I will say, many of the replies here hold much water...and some don't.

And yes sir, I am a redneck, a very well educated one. Don't group us all into one basket save convienence.

My guns will NEVER be taken from me, unless they are taken from my cold dead hands sir! That's it, and that's final. Because the day my guns are taken from me, there would be no other reason to live, or be an American citizen. This would mean the Constitution has been destroyed, and the endless other laws coming would be a disgrace to America. So I would be better off dead, rather to go on living in a country I do not believe, or belong in.

reply to post by BooKrackers


Luckily I've never been shot at, though looking back, the situations I've been in and we were an armed society, I probably would of been by now.

i will choose when i exit this earth,

it depends if your opponents aim is better than yours.

Posting this stuff on ats is like finding a lost amazon tribe and inviting them to join civilized society.

"Ugh, me no give up my war spear!"

Then they turn violent.

"Try taking my war spear and see what happens!"

reply to post by lacrimaererum


People are a product of their environment, if you step all over the second amendment people who are upset or mentally ill will still find a way to harm others.

Also, the police are largely corrupt and don't care, so criminals (having guns) would have a free reign.

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
You could say the whole freedom and liberty ideal is an abstraction when in reality freedoms are oppressed by laws.

Mathematically, I am as free as an integer.

Physically, I am as oppressed as a rock.

Liberty, as an ideal, is the recognition of the latter while working toward and desiring the former, with the equal recognition of other minds having that same desire.

In a society, i.e. a collection of minds, the society dissipates in their absence, but the individual mind does not dissipate with society. That's the difference, and that's the litmus test.

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
Posting this stuff on ats is like finding a lost amazon tribe and inviting them to join civilized society.

"Ugh, me no give up my war spear!"

Then they turn violent.

"Try taking my war spear and see what happens!"

The only one being violent in that scenario is the person threatening to plunder the person holding the weapon. His motivation is fear. That's not civilized, that's the very principle of tribalism.