Time to take the gun from the American public!

“They can have my gun when they pry it from my cold, dead hands! I will not be disarmed.. Taking guns away will not stop crime good luck with that..sugarcookie1

Firstly, you are very brave OP - questioning gun ownership and the constitution in one go!

In all seriousness, banning firearms from the public will not stop gun crime. It will not stop deaths from gun crime, accidental or deliberate. What it will do is make is that much more difficult for someone to get hold of a gun.

If someone really wants to get hold of a gun, whether its the US or anywhere, they could do if they really tried. The issue is that by allowing gun ownership, the US Government validates it, normalises it and justifies it. I'm sure many ATS members who own guns are upstanding members of society and must feel demonised and patronised when these debates roll round. Unfortunately, it is the minority who spoil it for the majority - when it comes to people dying so readily and so often though, action must be taken.

The constitution was written when there were issues with the indigenous population and even wild animals...protection was minimal and groups of people were alone / isolated / vulnerable. Guns made complete sense. America is a different place now. Did America have hundreds of millions of citizens, sprawling cities, suburbs, ghettos or even a formalised class structure when the constitution was written? No of course not. Needs change, so inevitably 'unalienable rights' must too.

In the UK, there is a massive issue with knife crime. There are high and low profile stabbings on a weekly basis. Recently, it has become impossible to buy knifes or any bladed instrument without proving your age and if you are acting suspiciously, the seller has the right to refuse service. This will never stop knife crime in its tracks, but it will restrict it. Given that alot of perpetrators / victims of knife crime are under 18, I shudder to think how much more common place if the restrictions above weren't in place.

reply to post by lacrimaererum


Come and getm little girl

I really dunno what to say ....

God blessed America, though...

Guns don't kill people...people kill people.

The culprit--is/was and always will be--murderous people. Guns only facilitate killing.

The US has thirteen subs that patrol the world's oceans. The nuclear firepower contained in
those subs, alone, is enough to wipeout half of the world's population in the blink of an eye
and leave the rest of the unfortunate in a wasteland of nuclear winter. There can be NO justification
for removing weapons from anyone, when this threat to all of humanity still exists.

And, also...though I am just a man, I can be lethal without a gun. Any able-bodied man has the
ability to kill. It isn't even that hard.

Freedom and liberty have a price, sometimes that price is extreme, and unthinkable...
but I am willing to pay that price.

You should make inquiry as to the best method to have yourself incarcerated.

Because in prison...there are NO GUNS

reply to post by lacrimaererum


You will be lead to a camp and killed in many disgusting ways, when they do march you and your family off be sure to curse them with your words, lord knows fighting would be bad, it wasnt ordered by our benevilent government to resisit, after all they know whats best for us and wouldnt kill 250,000,000 people last century alone. That would be silly.

reply to post by TKDRL

I am not sure that some people get it. When most of the people I know say "From my cold dead hands." its not just some saying they like to spout out.

Hell I yelled that when Santorum said he wanted to take my porn. "From my cold, dead, hairy palms you bastard!' I actually think I may have said that in a thread.

I actually don't know where I draw my line in the sand. Haven't had to, hope I never will. It's gonna be tricky finding those guns after the boat accident though. Freaking boats, right?

Oh for the love of all that's decent, people... I thought about actually making a rant thread for this, but THIS is the thread my feelings are about. Why make a new one??

What the heck is going on around here?! Did that Email from Springer today not get to everyone? Did so many people just ignore it out of hand?? This thread has had some great debate....but also some of the more aggressive and outright hostile things to the OP I've seen in weeks. I don't want to cite specific examples and I shouldn't have to. If it isn't obvious, over just the last 3 pages....but the whole thread here and there...then simply NEEDING to explain it would seem to BE the problem.

Did the people telling her to 'come get them' or 'try little girl' even look at the mini-profile to see the OP is from the U.K. and not an anti-gun American trying to dump all over our own system? Doesn't this matter? Although I have to say...even an American dumping on our own system shouldn't get attacked THIS viciously. A couple here were almost overtly threatening for goodness sakes.

I hope no one thinks this attitude is representative of Americans in general The love of our firearms rights IS....but this outright vicious a defense for even questioning it isn't.

*I wasn't planning to flag this thread...but I have now. I'm considering it combat pay for what the OP went through.

reply to post by JonoEnglish


Honestly friend your splitting hairs,

Say they ban guns.....ok......now what? A rise in knife related deaths.....ok time to ban knives then....what next after that? Shovels? When does it stop? Your logic is flawed, ban guns because they cause harm easier? If Im not mistaken more people die from smoking than gun related deaths...that I would happily ban, alas this is a free country. If you really wanna die by your own hand...should be your business and no one elses.

And Japan did not invade the states because? You guessed it.....everyone had guns...had nothing to do with our military might. Im sure another poster addressed this already before my post in regards to this. Also in Iraq we had a hell of a time with the fact that most of them insurgents (the regular populous) had guns.....get our butts wiped for us a few times we did. Its a matter of numbers in a war, not might.

There are many factors involved in why people commit crimes. Eliminating lawful gun ownership isn't going to address any of those...so its a mute point at best.

And lastly, again, why should I adhere to your beliefs or someone elses who makes guns out to be a boogeyman? Who thinks I should live in society the way they want me to? Doesn't seem very fair to me. You have a bunch of misguided people who have been goated into thinking in this way because they like to believe everything they hear, see, and read without question.

It is not anyones place to dictate what I can do freely as long as it does not harm anyone other than myself. And i would not propose to do the same to anyone else. Im not a crook, I don't break the law, I pay my taxes.....stop telling me what I should and should not do with my life or my property. If someone trys to hinder my existence violently then they shall meet a violent end probably with lead in their chest.

Live by the sword, die by the sword thats my motto. As far as nukes go, ya got me there, worst invention ever.

reply to post by lacrimaererum


Bring it! Taking guns from americans will only accomplish one thing, the criminals will still have guns and I wont. you can pry my guns from my cold dead hands. And you better pack a lunch.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I didn't think my post to the op was outright hostile ..My whole family thinks this way im a single lady living out on a farm miles away from anyone i will not ever be without a gun to protect myself I'm just a tiny girl not over 98 pounds with no one around to protect me..Plus im a avid deer hunter and not for trophy i eat the venison it makes me through the year for meat ..I feel its my right to own a gun im not out killing people and robing stores or belong to a gang..I'm just sugarcookie protecting myself from people that might break in and possibility hurt me..peace,sugarcookie1 sorry for the spelling its late

Someone may have posted this already:

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Cesare Beccaria

Better enforcement of existing gun laws is the answer, not new laws.

Freedom is based off of many factors. In my opinion the lack of laws, rules or guidelines results in fear and not freedom. People become afraid to live life because of the threat of violence radiates uncontrolled around them.

A polite state is an armed state.

If owning guns is a crime then only criminals will have guns! Everyone should carry a gun some douch ain't gonna walk into a store and try shooting the place up if everyone around has a gun too! They need to pay attention to the early warning signs of those crazy a-holes and any one who unjustly takes a life should be put to death not 3 hots and a cot the rest of their life on our dime.

Judging by a lot of the posts owning guns in the US seems to be very much a macho thing but I have my doubts as to how many would actually shoot it out to the death if it came to it.

It's obviously a matter for those living in the US but if I was trying to bring up a family there I would be concerned that my country had many times the gun murder rate per head of say the UK or even next door neighbour Canada .

I think the idea that having your citizens armed to the teeth is important to protect the country from invasion is false. Didn't stop UK from fending off Hitler in 1940.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Did the people telling her to 'come get them' or 'try little girl' even look at the mini-profile to see the OP is from the U.K. and not an anti-gun American trying to dump all over our own system? Doesn't this matter?

I don't even care where the OP is from. I don't take kindly when the state/legislation is suggested as a weapon to aggress against me for doing nothing wrong but living and minding my own business.

But most of the 'hostile' replies aren't really hostile, but are indignation. If he's/she's not willing to individually disarm every single person by him/herself, then he/she has no business telling other people to do it for him/her.

reply to post by Alfie1


"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither, living in the UK or Canada this should become apparent.

Its not a macho thing....its a leave us alone to live our lives thing. Since the US Governement can't find their a** with both hands, what makes you think they can come to the average citizens rescue in a timely manner when a victem of the economy decides he wants to enter your house unlawfully in the middle of the night?

Police response times are not great in this country especially if you live rural...and lets take defense out of it for a second. There are many people where i live in the US who subsistence hunt for their food, they cannot buy food on a regular basis due to out of stock or super high prices due to shipping rates....so lets throw them guns in the same barrel and what do you have?

A buncha starving eskimos because some hippy wants to dictate domestic policy from accross the pond. You live in your misery, we'll get along just fine in ours.....with all of our guns....BTW Hitler didnt really want to invade England, his orginal intent was to destroy it. And IIRC he almost did, and England almost surrendered due to his bombing campaign. Thank god for the Yanks eh?

reply to post by EyesWideShut


HaHa... Yes, my 'tactical' is the 590 model also... not an A1 as far as i know tho. Is this newer, updated model? Mine's about 2 years old.

Anyway...

You're quite right regarding your comment on 'skewed comparisons' of population size... and I fully accept this and should have clarified the 'broadness' of my observations in this regard. Even a comparison between Auckland and Detroit, two similar sized cities, would be highly flawed as I'm also painfully aware that there's social and economic issues that we don't even come close to having to contend with down here.

I was sort of hoping the points I raised would be taken at a more philosophical level, rather than a from a place more literal. On such a touching volatile and emotive subject though, and bearing in mind your 'more than valid' point around an inability to compare NZ to the US, I'll certainly tread somewhat more carefully in the future on those rare occasions I do wade on into a debate here!

Kia Ora my northern hemisphere brother and Kia Kaha.

Ka Keta Ano

Originally posted by DIRTYDONKEY
Everyone should carry a gun some douch ain't gonna walk into a store and try shooting the place up if everyone around has a gun too!

But they do, that's the point.

Originally posted by kennylee
After reading this entire thread, all I can say is that our forefathers were very wise to leave England, since the OP is from UK and the ones that have the most anti-gun things to say in this thread. It is really nobody's business if we want to keep our guns in America especially if you dont even live here...

I think that instead of starting a thread about what we Americans should do, you should look in your own backyard and stay out of ours....

I am not in the UK or from the UK. People seem to continue to bring this up and I guess it shows the intelligence of the people I am talking to.


I did not pick up a gun and point it to your head and make you join this thread. This planet is my backyard brother.