Time to take the gun from the American public!

Originally posted by imherejusttoread

Originally posted by Alfie1
The right to bear arms bit was written over 200 years ago for a completely different world.

This kind of thinking is why history often does repeat itself.

Who needs experience or history when the human ego is omniscient?

I note that you avoid my point that the right to bear arms was intended to be in connection with a "well regulated militia" which no-one here seems to be arguing for.

And times do change. You don't seem to be arguing either that the Constitutional provisions for slavery should still be in force.

In Ireland we have very restrictive gun laws. There is still gun crime however.

0.61 per 100,000 population in 2006, and 0.41 in 2007

Source

The population is about 4.5 million so that would make about 23 deaths on average for a year. The OP is complaining about 52 in three months?

Multiplying the Irish figures to match the US population that would give 1687 approx murders with guns. Having restrictive gun laws does not make gun crime go away.

reply to post by Alfie1


Every able bodied person, that arms themself, and shoots regularly is part of that "well regulated militia"..... Well regulated does not mean organized and ranked like a standing army.

ill be the last person alive with a gun if they try to go the UK route. Trying to justify taking away our only protection by staging a few murders. HA like that's never happened before.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Domo1

 

I am not sure that some people get it. When most of the people I know say "From my cold dead hands." its not just some saying they like to spout out. We mean it. There are not enough police and military in the nation. It would be a bloodbath, but perhaps that is what they want I suppose. Gungrabbing advocates, just remember that people like you brought the bloodiest war in the history of the world upon the nation if it ever does happen. Hope you got a bulletproof house and a bomb shelter, because it will get ugly, and wherever you live will not be immune to the death and destruction that would be rained down.

Lol at you and your internet machoman threats. You and your ilk would be the first pissing in your pants and giving up even the slingshot at the sight of armed soldiers or cops at your doorstep. Keep shooting beer cans and waving the "dont tread on me" banner. If you need to hide behind the barrel of a gun to empower your weak self during peace time, you sure as HELL will not have the grapes and fortitude to confront the REAL bad times.

"From my cold dead hands"... WHATEVER LMAO

Originally posted by lacrimaererum

Originally posted by mwc273


We will not disarm and see our freedoms stripped away.

what is with this belief that you are 'free' because you can carry a firearm.

you will not see your freedoms stripped away? your freedoms have been slowly and systematically been obliterated post 9/11.

everything you do is monitored. everywhere you go outside your home you are monitored. you are so lacking in intelligent thinking to realise that you are actually living in an open prison and your are merely an armed inmate.

your firearm will be very redundent when the drones are a regular sight patrolling the US skies.

like i said new solutions are needed for 2012 living not solutions created in 1776.

Oooooo. Resorting to personal attacks, rather than logic. Who is lacking in intelligent thinking?
I do realize that our country is quickly becoming an open prison and I am merely an armed inmate. Hence the second line of my signature...

Originally posted by lacrimaererum

How do you convince a nation to grow up and realise its time to put down the guns?

We've tried that in the UK. Very few firearm incidents ever occurred (or occur now) with legally held firearms. The few that do are plastered all over the news, of course, but taking away firearms only takes them away from the people who follow the law in the first place. All the bad people still have them if they want them, still have access to them and still use them.

In the US, where there is already the culture of using guns in crime, are you expecting the criminals to voluntarily "level the playing field" by choosing not to use their guns?

I don't think this is the way forward. Taking a gun from a thug won't stop them being a thug.

Less laws, better enforced with meaningful punishment and opportunity for the individual to reform. Give people more freedom while making them take more responsibility for their actions.

If something is illegal, then only the criminals will be in possession. Guns are illegal in certain places and thus, only the criminals are armed while law abiding civilians have to rely on:

1)Being able to make a phone call to 911 which in most cases isn't possible and

2)Having at least 5-10 minutes, in some places longer to wait for help to arrive.

If normal civilians had been armed in any of the incidents mentioned by the OP, I doubt the casualties would've been as high as they were, especially if the shooters were being shot back at the moment they start.

The funny, yet sad thing is, is that there are so many Internet Superheroes on here. So many "YEAH YEAH TRY COME TAKE MY GUNS! I'LL TAKE DOWN THE GOVERNMENT IF THEY TRY AND TAKE MY RIGHTS!!!" types, yet guess what, you're supposed freedoms and rights have already been taken. And I am willing to put good money down that if the Police/Military/Whoever came to take your weapons, you wouldn't do sh*t to stop them.

It's easy to talk tough when sitting behind a computer screen. Yet not once have a seen anyone actually step up and try take on the US Government, yet you all sit on here complaining how your rights and freedoms are being trampled all over.

As usual though, it's all talk, no action

Keep on keeping on, Internet Superheroes!!!!

Originally posted by Raimo
Our guns are not only here to protect us from criminals, but they are also their to protect us from the government. When the time is needed of course.

This has come up a few times. Its pretty funny.

Anyway, when was the last time that the american people rose up and protected themsleves from the government. The amount of idiots sitting in their homes thinking everything is AOK because they have a gun the government can't do any harm. Too funny.

Originally posted by Alfie1
I note that you avoid my point that the right to bear arms was intended to be in connection with a "well regulated militia" which no-one here seems to be arguing for.

I ignored it because it's a silly refutation. I don't believe it. The Supreme Court ruled they don't believe it. Many of the founder's quotes implied a militia consisting of citizens able to handle arms, no matter their competency.

You don't seem to be arguing either that the Constitutional provisions for slavery should still be in force.

If the slaves were allowed arms, they wouldn't have been slaves.

reply to post by lacrimaererum


But but but, the Internet Superheroes on ATS are gonna rise up and defeat the Socialist Government of Reagan, no wait, Bush the 1st, hang on, it was Clinton wasn't it, NO NO NO, IT WAS THAT IDIOT BUSH MARK 2!!! Or was it that illegitimate President Obama (you know the guy, the Kenyan/Indonesian/Muslim/Communist Dictator that isn't even American!!!), that the gun owners are going to protect themselves, and everyone else from!

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by Mr_skepticc
My guns will NEVER be taken from me, unless they are taken from my cold dead hands sir! That's it, and that's final. Because the day my guns are taken from me, there would be no other reason to live, or be an American citizen. This would mean the Constitution has been destroyed, and the endless other laws coming would be a disgrace to America. So I would be better off dead, rather to go on living in a country I do not believe, or belong in.

As a vaguely interested foreign observer it seem to me pretty extreme to say " the Consitution has been destroyed " if there was to be gun law amendment.

The whole Constitution thing seems to me to be pretty bogus. The right to bear arms bit was written over 200 years ago for a completely different world. it was framed in terms of a well regulated militia but I don't see many posters on here saying they want to belong to a militia. Anyway, didn't the Constitution originally provide for slavery ? Times change and things can be amended.

I have to disagree.

The US constitution is a document of balance. Federal, State and Citizens balance against each other. When the system is in balance the whole is harmonious. The POTUS has thrown the balance right out the window. I notice now that the forces of balance are at work. States are trying to impede the Federal sphere and will succeed. The last bastion, the trenches, when all else fails ..... you have the citizens! Do not underestimate the Citizens.

One thing though, cold dead hands? It is a bit late if you get my meaning.

P

I like guns too!

Molon Labe'

Now for some Pro Gun quotes:

"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
-- George Washington

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
-- Mahatma Gandhi

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
-- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
-- Barry Goldwater

"I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

"As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives [only] moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion to your walks."
-- Thomas Jefferson, writing to his teenaged nephew.

"The state calls its own violence `law', but that of the individual `crime'"
-- Max Stirner

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."
-- George Washington, in a speech of January 7, 1790

The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
-- Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story of the John Marshall Court

No kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave.
-- "Political Disquisitions", a British republican tract of 1774-1775

And these two should hit home for the Anti-Gun crowd...

"To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
-- George Mason, speech of June 14, 1788

Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defence? Where is the difference between having our arms in our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defence be the *real* object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?
-- Patrick Henry, speech of June 9 1788

And if you still don't get it... one more.

The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so.
-- Hitler, April 11 1942

Forgot to include a very important one.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
-- John F. Kennedy

Have a nice day!

I have said this before and I will say it again, an armed society is a polite society. If everyone on the streets had a weapon, criminals would have to think twice about using violence. Anyone attempting to shoot up a neighborhood wouldn't make it a half of a block without meeting thier maker. With all of the strife in the world it is the governments that should be disarmed, not the citizens. For a true Republic to work the government should fear the people not the other way around.
*end of rant*

Originally posted by bobs_uruncle

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

 

Don't forget to ban all catfish.

I could beat a child to death with a 25 pounder.

edit on 4-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

No, you can't ban catfish. Have you ever been "noodling" LOL, cause then you'll know why.

Cheers - Dave

You're being selfish. Think of all the children that will be saved from being beaten to a bloody pulp with catfish if we just ban them.

Do it for the kids, do it for the kids.

The point, Phoenix, is that the right to bear arms was if the Government was overstepping the mark, and your everyday citizens could use their weapons to form a Militia and take control back from a Government that was out of control. It didn't give you the right to own weapons, then say "you know what, screw everyone else, and if anyone else tries taking my gun, i'll kill em!!!!" Which nearly everyone is saying on here..........

Originally posted by rcanem
I have said this before and I will say it again, an armed society is a polite society. If everyone on the streets had a weapon, criminals would have to think twice about using violence. Anyone attempting to shoot up a neighborhood wouldn't make it a half of a block without meeting thier maker. With all of the strife in the world it is the governments that should be disarmed, not the citizens. For a true Republic to work the government should fear the people not the other way around.
*end of rant*

Protip - it doesn't take someone having a weapon in order to be polite, or show common courtesy, regardless of being a criminal or not.

And some of the best criminals in the world are the ones that are polite and courteous. Look at how many Politicians have gotten away with murder......

quit feeding the obvious trolls, seems like a new member makes one of these threads every month to gather stars and flags for whatever they are worth lol

reply to post by Snoopy1978


Yeah whatever you say. You don't know how us country boys roll obviously. Shooting beer cans lol..... Go try and troll someone else, I am not taking the bait