Cop Arrests Five Year Old for Acting Out in School...Zip Ties Hands and Feet. (Video)

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
try again.

So its a secret.

I suppose we are just to trust you that you are an expert?

On the one hand, you overly confidently dismiss the collective wisdom of hundreds of generations of parents who have successfully disciplined kids with psychical punishment.

On the other hand, since people with your expertise have gained prominence, our schools are full of dysfunctional kids.

That's progress for you.

Ive said exactly what i do, outside of my specific job title, I'm not hiding it from anyone. I have also never claimed to be an expert, only to have years of experience in the field.



I also have not once dismissed physical punishment. What i have done is pointed out that each one is an individual circumstance, and that an agitated and scared special needs child should NEVER be approached like this, which is true.

Ill ask again though-what is your basis for claiming that physical punishment has worked throughout the generations?

Seems you are more interested in trying to discredit and attack me and my profession here, than actually discussing the topic, and thats ok, as its usually the tact taken when someone is challenged on a subject by someone with more of an understanding of it than they have.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
The thing you are not getting here, is physically dominating a child who is aggressive does not teach him that he cant bully his way through life. It teaches him that the adults around him are bullies as well, and that he has to be even more of one to get what he wants.

No, it doesn't.

It teaches him some respect for authority. It has worked for centuries. Millennia in fact.

Absolutely false. It teaches them that the most dominant person is the one they have to listen to, and reinforces that physical aggression will make you the authority.

How has it worked? Please, share.

reply to post by GR1ill3d


I know where you're coming from my daughter has Asperger's Syndrome with severe ADHD (and for all of those who doubt the reality of this condition or that people drug their kids to get SSI -I dont -my daughter is on meds that I pay for out of my pocket no one takes care of us but me) when she first presented with these conditions it was horribly traumatic for her and we had to remove her from the school she was attending-though no one had to handcuff her or tie her down-now at 16 she's an honor student mainstreamed in regular classes-
What was done to that child was overkill he's probably traumatized -this was a 5 year old not a 16 year old with a gun -5 is a baby really. People need to remember that -yes children definatly need discipline but that wasnt it

reply to post by captaintyinknots


You don't meet the aggression with more aggression, you meet it with the proper physical response. You calmly teach the child that their physical aggression will not be tolerated, which is not the same as bullying. You teach the child that bullying will be met with a proper response from authorities, who will make things fair. The adults aren't going to steal his lunch money, or take his toys, they are going to give back the toys to the kid he was abusing, and make him take a time out, and physically resisting will do him no good.

If you don't know the difference between bullying, and discipline, then you are missing some serious lessons in life. Maybe you just think that discipline is not something children should be taught.

All your methods teach the child is that their physical aggression will get them the attention they desire, and that is the wrong lesson.

I am basing my probabilities on the reality that I don't know the actual circumstance, and only have probabilities.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

You don't meet the aggression with more aggression, you meet it with the proper physical response. You calmly teach the child that their physical aggression will not be tolerated, which is not the same as bullying. You teach the child that bullying will be met with a proper response from authorities, who will make things fair. The adults aren't going to steal his lunch money, or take his toys, they are going to give back the toys to the kid he was abusing, and make him take a time out, and physically resisting will do him no good.

If you don't know the difference between bullying, and discipline, then you are missing some serious lessons in life. Maybe you just think that discipline is not something children should be taught.

All your methods teach the child is that their physical aggression will get them the attention they desire, and that is the wrong lesson.

I am basing my probabilities on the reality that I don't know the actual circumstance, and only have probabilities.

Do you think that this was a proper physical response, and not aggression, by the cop?

I have never once said that discipline should not be taught. I certainly think there is a difference between discplining a child and being aggressive toward them. This cop was aggressive, and made the situation worse.

You obviously have no experience with children. My methods (which are not my methods but methods developed by highly qualified psychologists) have proven effective. My kids were re-integrated to mainstream with a 90% success rate. The proof is in the pudding.

The fact of the matter is, this was a highly inappropriate response by an adult who has no place working with children.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Ill ask again though-what is your basis for claiming that physical punishment has worked throughout the generations?

Seems you are more interested in trying to discredit and attack me and my profession here, than actually discussing the topic.

How can I discredit your profession when you are so coy about telling me what it is?

By the way, can you offer some quantitative evidence that your progressive approach is more successful than the traditional approach?

Peer reviewed journals please.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Ill ask again though-what is your basis for claiming that physical punishment has worked throughout the generations?

Seems you are more interested in trying to discredit and attack me and my profession here, than actually discussing the topic.

How can I discredit your profession when you are so coy about telling me what it is?

By the way, can you offer some quantitative evidence that your progressive approach is more successful than the traditional approach?

Peer reviewed journals please.

Again, I have not been coy, I have said exactly what I do, outside of my job title. Im sorry if you missed it-here, Ill state it again. I work in a public school district as in in school case worker for BLC students.



As for your peer review journals, they are out there aplenty. Have at the google box if you like.

Im still waiting for someone to tell me what they base the assertion that physically dominating kids works.

Originally posted by ollncasino


How can I discredit your profession when you are so coy about telling me what it is?

Pretty obvious, considering its been over a page since you have posted on the subject, and not about me.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

As for your peer review journals, they are out there aplenty. Have at the google box if you like.

So basically you can't prove that your ideas are more successful than the traditional approach?

Why doesn't that surprise me?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

As for your peer review journals, they are out there aplenty. Have at the google box if you like.

So basically you can't prove that your ideas are more successful than the traditional approach?

Why doesn't that surprise me?

Oh, i can, i just dont need to. Im sorry that google is too complicated for you.

Tell you what, you answer my question, that is, what proof you have that physical domination works, and Ill gladly post peer review journal, psych studies, success rates, etc, just for you.

Originally posted by kdog1982

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by kdog1982
A time out in the corner would have been more appropriate.

You think you can keep an ADHD child with behavior issues in a corner?

Good luck with that.

Yep,I can.
I have a child with ADHD.
My wife is an ECE specialist for some 18 years now.(Thats the new term for special ed,btw)
We have refused the medications recommended by the doctors,she has been on a strict diet.
She is 13 now,has seem to have grown out of it and is fine now.
It just takes time, patience and love.
Alot of parents don't have the time and patience and would rather dope their kids up then have to deal with it.

edit on 27-11-2011 by kdog1982 because: (no reason given)

I cannot keep quiet about this anymore. I try to stay out of the ADD issue, but there is so much bad and disinformation out there.
I was diagnosed with ADHD (Then called hyperactivity) when I was 7. My parents also chose not to medicate me. The condition continued to effect me and no amount of "time-outs" or spankings (Yes, my mother practiced corporal punishment) or diet control did ANYTHING to help.

I went through most of my adult life unable to focus my concentration. I was frustrated because although my IQ was well above average, it was useless without the ability to focus.
In my 30's I went back to college and it was a struggle. I found it hard to sit through a lecture. I would have to force myself to sit there while my brain and body screamed to leave.

A couple of years ago, I started having problems with chronic insomnia and a worsening case of restless leg syndrome. Doctors and I tried everything, but nothing helped .I had completely forgot about the ADD diagnose when I was a child. I started to research more and more into the causes of insomnia when I stumbled upon the information that ADD can cause it. I then remembered about the diagnoses when I was 7.

My doctor started treating me for adult ADD and the difference in my life is night and day. Looking back on my life I wish my parents had treated me with medication as my life could be quite different now. I am still attending college and I now have zero problems sitting through a lecture. My thoughts are focused and clear, for the first time in my life I feel as if I have to ability to use my mind to it's full potential. My insomnia has lessened dramatically and I respond better to restless leg syndrome medication.RLS is believed to be caused by low Dopamine levels and is treated, for the most part , with Parkinson disease medication. Parkinson is also Dopamine related illness.

ADHD is mostly caused my a imbalance of Dopamine and to a lesser extent Norepinephrine. Stimulant medications work because they boost the amount of Dopamine released in certain parts of the brain, bringing the persons Dopamine levels to normal in those with ADD. That same action is what causes the "high" and hyperactivity in those without ADD as their Dopamine levels are being pushed well past normal.

The wives tale that "sugar" and diet is the cause of ADD is nothing more than fiction. The only "food" that has been shown to exacerbate (NOT cause) ADD symptoms are certain food colors and one type of preservative. If one has a story that somehow a child they know was "cured" by diet, then child did not have ADD in the first place. Reducing sugar intake is not going to fix a Dopamine imbalance anymore than it would cure a cold.

I was one of those children who had ADD and was not medically treated. Instead I was treated the way many on ATS seem think in their great , non medically educated, wisdom. I was spanked , punished and restricted from sugar. All of which did NOTHING to help, and looking back seeing how much the medication now helps me, how much damage the spanking and punishment actually did.

I know there are those that will insist on remaining ignorant, calming only a stern hand and diet changes will help with ADD or claiming that ADD does not exist at all. Contrary to the MRI and PET scans that have shown definite brain activity differences in those with ADD. I can only hope that the brief telling of my story might encourage some to study the subject further and discover for themselves the reality behind ADHD and adult ADD.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Oh, i can, i just dont need to. Im sorry that google is too complicated for you.

I tried google. I couldn't find anything proving that your 'progressive' ideas were more successful than traditional ideas.

Perhaps, you being an expert, could help me by citing a few quantitative peer reviewed journals to prove your position?

Surely you would, if only you could...

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Oh, i can, i just dont need to. Im sorry that google is too complicated for you.

I tried google. I couldn't find anything proving that your 'progressive' ideas were more successful than traditional ideas.

Perhaps, you being an expert, could help me by citing a few quantitative peer reviewed journals to prove your position?

Surely you would, if only you could...

Was waiting for the political labeling to start.

And again, I never claimed to be an expert, in fact, i have said the opposite. Perhaps you have a learning disability? If so, I have some good techniques that can help with you reading comprehension and retention.

As I said, you answer the question I have been asking for 3 pages now, and Ill gladly oblige.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Again, I have not been coy, I have said exactly what I do, outside of my job title. Im sorry if you missed it-here, Ill state it again. I work in a public school district as in in school case worker for BLC students.

I tried Googling BLC students as well.

Do you teach Business Learning Community students?

Bristol Language Centre students?

Bethany Lutheran College students?

Whatever BLC students are, according to you, Google doesn't give them much web space.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Again, I have not been coy, I have said exactly what I do, outside of my job title. Im sorry if you missed it-here, Ill state it again. I work in a public school district as in in school case worker for BLC students.

I tried Googling BLC students as well.

Do you teach Business Learning Community students?

Bristol Language Centre students?

Bethany Lutheran College students?

Whatever BLC students are, according to you, Google doesn't give them much web space.

Not so good at this are you. Sokay, dont expect you to be. BLC(behavioral learning center), or BRC(behavioral resource center) kids are children that have been removed from the general population of schooling because of a multitude of issues (autism, adhd, drugs, histories of abuse).

Still waiting for you to answer my question, and even more so, still waiting for you to quit attempting (very unsuccessfully) to discredit me and instead speak about the topic of this thread....i get the feeling ill be waiting a while.

reply to post by ollncasino


When you're done with your frantic search attempting to find something that will discredit me, ill gladly continue.

Your playbook is worn out.

reply to post by 12voltz


Your right, parents are so eager to blame something else for their kids like ADHD when 95% of what your kid does is YOUR (parents) fault.

Originally posted by Dreamwatcher

Originally posted by kdog1982

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by kdog1982
A time out in the corner would have been more appropriate.

You think you can keep an ADHD child with behavior issues in a corner?

Good luck with that.

Yep,I can.
I have a child with ADHD.
My wife is an ECE specialist for some 18 years now.(Thats the new term for special ed,btw)
We have refused the medications recommended by the doctors,she has been on a strict diet.
She is 13 now,has seem to have grown out of it and is fine now.
It just takes time, patience and love.
Alot of parents don't have the time and patience and would rather dope their kids up then have to deal with it.

edit on 27-11-2011 by kdog1982 because: (no reason given)

I cannot keep quiet about this anymore. I try to stay out of the ADD issue, but there is so much bad and disinformation out there.
I was diagnosed with ADHD (Then called hyperactivity) when I was 7. My parents also chose not to medicate me. The condition continued to effect me and no amount of "time-outs" or spankings (Yes, my mother practiced corporal punishment) or diet control did ANYTHING to help.

I went through most of my adult life unable to focus my concentration. I was frustrated because although my IQ was well above average, it was useless without the ability to focus.
In my 30's I went back to college and it was a struggle. I found it hard to sit through a lecture. I would have to force myself to sit there while my brain and body screamed to leave.

A couple of years ago, I started having problems with chronic insomnia and a worsening case of restless leg syndrome. Doctors and I tried everything, but nothing helped .I had completely forgot about the ADD diagnose when I was a child. I started to research more and more into the causes of insomnia when I stumbled upon the information that ADD can cause it. I then remembered about the diagnoses when I was 7.

My doctor started treating me for adult ADD and the difference in my life is night and day. Looking back on my life I wish my parents had treated me with medication as my life could be quite different now. I am still attending college and I now have zero problems sitting through a lecture. My thoughts are focused and clear, for the first time in my life I feel as if I have to ability to use my mind to it's full potential. My insomnia has lessened dramatically and I respond better to restless leg syndrome medication.RLS is believed to be caused by low Dopamine levels and is treated, for the most part , with Parkinson disease medication. Parkinson is also Dopamine related illness.

ADHD is mostly caused my a imbalance of Dopamine and to a lesser extent Norepinephrine. Stimulant medications work because they boost the amount of Dopamine released in certain parts of the brain, bringing the persons Dopamine levels to normal in those with ADD. That same action is what causes the "high" and hyperactivity in those without ADD as their Dopamine levels are being pushed well past normal.

The wives tale that "sugar" and diet is the cause of ADD is nothing more than fiction. The only "food" that has been shown to exacerbate (NOT cause) ADD symptoms are certain food colors and one type of preservative. If one has a story that somehow a child they know was "cured" by diet, then child did not have ADD in the first place. Reducing sugar intake is not going to fix a Dopamine imbalance anymore than it would cure a cold.

I was one of those children who had ADD and was not medically treated. Instead I was treated the way many on ATS seem think in their great , non medically educated, wisdom. I was spanked , punished and restricted from sugar. All of which did NOTHING to help, and looking back seeing how much the medication now helps me, how much damage the spanking and punishment actually did.

I know there are those that will insist on remaining ignorant, calming only a stern hand and diet changes will help with ADD or claiming that ADD does not exist at all. Contrary to the MRI and PET scans that have shown definite brain activity differences in those with ADD. I can only hope that the brief telling of my story might encourage some to study the subject further and discover for themselves the reality behind ADHD and adult ADD.


Thank you for sharing that because it's really frustrating when you as a parent make the difficult and upopular choice to medicate to have people claim all parents who medicate do so to get SSI benefits for their child or that they're lazy parents.This is a real condition-the rare occasion when my daughter hasnt had her meds she CANNOT focus or sit still and NO punishment will help with that. However she is managing beautifully and we have been able lower her doseage

edit on 28-11-2011 by Dreamwatcher because: Paragraph Seperation [/editb extra DIV

reply to post by Dreamwatcher


Thank you for your story. There are many people who don't think ADHD exists. My brother has had it all of his life. He is 23 now. I'm not going get in to the long story, I will just say that when he doesn't take his medication you can see a total difference in him. I'm sure people are misdiagnosed...but it is definitely real and a lot of people suffer from it.

What the hell is a 5 year old doing in a re education camp anyway? 5 years old is kindergarten, they are glorified toddlers at that age, especially boys! (I have four, I know! LOL) And even beyond that, since when it is a crime to disrespect a cop? What is the law that says you have to respect a cop? And furthermore, this child is a minor and legally has to have a parent or guardian present for something of this nature.

I agree with others that there would be hell to pay if this were my kid!