Cop Arrests Five Year Old for Acting Out in School...Zip Ties Hands and Feet. (Video)

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
How many times in your life have you been agitated, afraid, and then had someone come in and physically dominate you?

So you are claiming to have some special knowledge about feeling agitated and afraid and hence claiming it is perfectly normal to assault people if you feel agitated and afraid.

Again, speak for yourself.

that cop must be a real nice guy deep down

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Anybody with even the slightest knowledge about the human psyche will tell you that this type of reaction to a physically aggressive kid (and, again, one who has obvious psychological issues) will only reinforce to them that the person who is the most physcially dominant will get what they want, and those that arent are forced to concede.

in short, all it does is reinforce the idea that to get what you want, you must be the most physically dominant person in the room.

So you are claiming that generations of parents who have successfully disciplined their children through physical punishment don't have the slightest knowledge of human psyche?

Yet you do?

reply to post by captaintyinknots

It is absolutely not true whatsoever that you interpretation is more reasonable. How much experience do you have working with kids, especially special needs kids, if I can ask?

Where in my comment did I state my interpretation is "more reasonable?" I'm simply pointing out that your interpretation is not the ONLY one that is logical. I had a 15-year career in the criminal justice field and worked as a cop as well as a defense investigator. I have had plenty of experience dealing with troubled kids and those who had been diagnosed with ADHD or special needs. I am not a child psychologist, but that doesn't mean I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Double post....sorry

reply to post by poet1b


Again, he is FIVE!

Kids at age 5 lash out sometimes. It isn't "physical domination" it is just a response. They aren't yet civilized like an adult. You touch them, they slap your hand away. You loom and leer over them in an intimidating posture, they kick your knee. They are more animalistic in their responses. It isn't assault.

And you are way off track also. You are assuming an awful lot. The school didn't call the cops, the mother agreed to let the cop try and scare the kid. We don't know if he ever hurt any other kid, or if it was just typical kid behavior. Apparently the school was for kids like him, so for all we know the other students were even more violent than him, and he was only defending himself.

I'll be the first to admit the mother is the key person to blame. She should have never put him in a school like this, never agreed to let a cop scare him, and she should have been doing more at home. This mother failed her son and hoped to let the system save him. We all know how that ends! It ends with a 5 year old in wrist AND ANKLE restraints! The system isn't good for anybody.

But none of that excuses the cops behavior. You NEVER put a 5 year old in ZipTie restraints on hands and ankles.

Imagine this. What if the teacher called DCF and said the kid was acting out because of trouble at home. The cops show up, and the mother has restrained the child with zipties around his hands and ankles because he won't behave. Would the cops arrest the mother for that behavior? I'm 100% certain they would, but somehow it is ok if they do it?

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Your simplistic approach is not realistic.

Teaching children that physical actions will result in physical consequences is teaching them the realities of this world.

The way the kid looks at things now, he see physical domination as the way of getting what he wants. By physically dominating the kid, he learns that he can not always be physically dominate, that there will always be others who can physically dominate him. He needs to learn that when he physically dominate others, he is going to be physically dominated in return. While physical domination might work in the short term, in the longer term, it does not. Only then will the child try other methods.

Only after the child learns that he can not bully his way through life, that the child will meet with physical consequences for physical actions, will the child then go on to more advanced methods of social interaction.

reply to post by poet1b


I completely agree with your last post.

Natural Consequences.

But, this cop did not do any of what you said. He bound and tied him in an inhumane fashion, transported him without the parents involvement or knowledge, and actually charged the kid with a crime!

If a 5 year old can make the complicated legal decision of when it is ok to slap away a hand, then he should also be allowed to drink, smoke, fornicate, and see rated R movies.

There was nothing "natural" in these consequences. Maybe the cop should have turned him over his knee. Maybe they should have gone old Catholic school style and gave him some bricks to carry around and around the school yard. Nothing wrong with natural, physical consequences. BUT binding not only his hands, but also his ankles, with zipties, and transporting him to jail, and charging him with a crime is way, way, way beyond "natural."

See this part again from my earlier post:

Imagine this. What if the teacher called authorities and said the kid was acting out because of trouble at home. The cops show up, and the mother has restrained the child with zipties around his hands and ankles because he won't behave. Would the cops arrest the mother for that behavior? I'm 100% certain they would, but somehow it is ok if they do it?

reply to post by getreadyalready


The report says the school called the cops.

If the school has to call the cops all the time, then maybe you have a point, but it sounds like this kid is the exception to the exception.

Yeah, kicking is about physical domination, even when you are 5.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Maybe the cop should have turned him over his knee...
...BUT binding not only his hands, but also his ankles, with zipties, and transporting him to jail, and charging him with a crime is way, way, way beyond "natural."

Quite probably what the child needed is for the cop to put him over his knee and spank him. But that, nowadays, would be assault.

Go figure.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Yeah, this gets into the territory, of not knowing what really happened.

I imagine parents calling the cops because they can't control their kids, aren't going to have the children restrained. It would be a strange situation, and the kid would have to be rabid.

reply to post by poet1b


I was looking for more sources for the story, but it all leads back to the one brief article and video, and the video is no longer working for me?

The way I originally understood it, the mother had agreed ahead of time to let the school resource officer "scare him straight," so the school didn't actually call the cops, they just called in their own security cop on the premises and it was supposed to scare the kid. Which, it did scare him and he lashed out.

I can't see the video anymore though.

It seems there is enough failure here to go around for all parties involved. I bet 2 weeks with some decent parents, in a decent school, and that would be a great, and over-achieving kid.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
How many times in your life have you been agitated, afraid, and then had someone come in and physically dominate you?

So you are claiming to have some special knowledge about feeling agitated and afraid and hence claiming it is perfectly normal to assault people if you feel agitated and afraid.

Again, speak for yourself.

No, Im claiming to have years of experience in dealing with children who face this every single day. So I wont speak for myself. Ill speak for the hundreds of kids I have worked with, as well.

Originally posted by NightGypsy
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

It is absolutely not true whatsoever that you interpretation is more reasonable. How much experience do you have working with kids, especially special needs kids, if I can ask?

Where in my comment did I state my interpretation is "more reasonable?" I'm simply pointing out that your interpretation is not the ONLY one that is logical. I had a 15-year career in the criminal justice field and worked as a cop as well as a defense investigator. I have had plenty of experience dealing with troubled kids and those who had been diagnosed with ADHD or special needs. I am not a child psychologist, but that doesn't mean I have no idea what I'm talking about.

You are right, it wasnt you that said it was more reasonable, it was the origional member that i quoted and responded to.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
No, Im claiming to have years of experience in dealing with children who face this every single day. So I wont speak for myself. Ill speak for the hundreds of kids I have worked with, as well.

So in other words you are an elementary school teacher?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Your simplistic approach is not realistic.

Teaching children that physical actions will result in physical consequences is teaching them the realities of this world.

The way the kid looks at things now, he see physical domination as the way of getting what he wants. By physically dominating the kid, he learns that he can not always be physically dominate, that there will always be others who can physically dominate him. He needs to learn that when he physically dominate others, he is going to be physically dominated in return. While physical domination might work in the short term, in the longer term, it does not. Only then will the child try other methods.

Only after the child learns that he can not bully his way through life, that the child will meet with physical consequences for physical actions, will the child then go on to more advanced methods of social interaction.

Tell me, what is the more simplistic approach:
a)Working with the child to de-escalate the situation and get them to stop being physically agressive;

or

b)meeting the aggression that you are trying to diffuse with even more aggression.

The thing you are not getting here, is physically dominating a child who is aggressive does not teach him that he cant bully his way through life. It teaches him that the adults around him are bullies as well, and that he has to be even more of one to get what he wants.

Again, all it does is reinforce that aggression is the way to come out of the situation on top.

I have noticed a trend in your posts though....lots of "he probably would have" or "he probably has"....are you going to base anything on what actually happened? Or just a bunch of hypotheticals?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
No, Im claiming to have years of experience in dealing with children who face this every single day. So I wont speak for myself. Ill speak for the hundreds of kids I have worked with, as well.

So in other words you are an elementary school teacher?

eeeehhhhhh

try again.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Anybody with even the slightest knowledge about the human psyche will tell you that this type of reaction to a physically aggressive kid (and, again, one who has obvious psychological issues) will only reinforce to them that the person who is the most physcially dominant will get what they want, and those that arent are forced to concede.

in short, all it does is reinforce the idea that to get what you want, you must be the most physically dominant person in the room.

So you are claiming that generations of parents who have successfully disciplined their children through physical punishment don't have the slightest knowledge of human psyche?

Yet you do?

I am claiming that ANYONE who knows about child development knows that the cognitive association in most children, especially special needs ones, is not there to understand physical punishment beyond the immediate.

Furthermore, do you really think that history has proven that physical punishment has worked? Seems to me that the world gets more violent every single day....

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
try again.

So its a secret.

I suppose we are just to trust you that you are an expert?

On the one hand, you overly confidently dismiss the collective wisdom of hundreds of generations of parents who have successfully disciplined kids with psychical punishment.

On the other hand, since people with your expertise have gained prominence, our schools are full of dysfunctional kids.

That's progress for you.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
The thing you are not getting here, is physically dominating a child who is aggressive does not teach him that he cant bully his way through life. It teaches him that the adults around him are bullies as well, and that he has to be even more of one to get what he wants.

No, it doesn't.

It teaches him some respect for authority. It has worked for centuries. Millennia in fact.